informant of death/signed for Death cert - person died in council hse - am i now responsible for the debts?

[Villaman]

Can anyone tell me the legal responsibilities of a person who signs for a death certificate as the informant of death.

 

The deceased left no will as no money or property is involved.

 

The deceased lived alone in council property and the only finances were all used to cover funeral expenses.

 

Anything of value has been divided equally between family members with all in agreement.

 

The only items left are furnishings etc,

do the family have to pay for these to be removed or will the council take care of this when the property is handed back.

 

Any other responsilities for the signee of the death certificate?

 

There are a few unpaid utility bills outstanding totally less than £300

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

the council will charge the earth to clear the place an try and bill the estate

but as there nowt they'll get nowhere

 

same for the outstanding bills etc.

 

all the debts die with him.

 

not your problem

[sgtbush]

Common misconception.

Debt does not die with the person.

 

All the deceased assets are pooled and is mow known as the estate.

 

All the deceaseds bills and debts are paid out of this. Any surplus then goes to the next of kin or distributed as per the wills instruction.

 

If there's no assets in the estate then the debts are written off.

They cannot be passed on.

 

The only thing here is it sounds like you have not gone thru probate.

 

You state that anything of value have already been split with the family but there are outstanding bills.

 

You cannot do it that way.

 

The creditors may have legal recourse on that

[Villaman]

The possessions that were split are only of sentimental value,

 

The complete total of "financial wealth" of the deceased was paid directly by the bank to the funeral directors and that account is now empty and closed,

 

so as such there is no estate to speak of,

its no hardship for us to all chip in and pay the outstanding utilty bills.

 

Just asking about the legalities of signing a death certificate as the informant of death,

 

does this person legally become the executor if the deceased hasnt appointed one and no will exists.

[dx100uk]

Common misconception.

Debt does not die with the person.

 

All the deceased assets are pooled and is mow known as the estate.

 

All the deceaseds bills and debts are paid out of this. Any surplus then goes to the next of kin or distributed as per the wills instruction.

 

If there's no assets in the estate then the debts are written off.

They cannot be passed on.

 

The only thing here is it sounds like you have not gone thru probate.

 

You state that anything of value have already been split with the family but there are outstanding bills.

 

You cannot do it that way.

 

The creditors may have legal recourse on that

 

so as I said

the debts die with HIM.

why pontificate...

 

I didn't say for every situation..

in this one it applies....

[dx100uk]

does this person legally become the executor if the deceased hasnt appointed one and no will exists.

 

no they don't as above

 

go enjoy your life stop worrying.

 

dx

[Villaman]

Thanks for the replies,

Its not me thats worrying I didnt sign the death certificate.

 

I may have complicated things slightly.

The exact situation is My mother passed away recently and I am in the process of trying to obtain succession of tenancy with the council.

 

The problem is my brother who signed the death certificate believes he will be financially liable for any debt etc I build up while going through this process, like running up electric, gas, phone bills etc which are all in my mothers name at the moment.

 

I have every intention of paying these myself but older brothers being as they are,

he thinks that if things go south regarding the tenancy I'll just walk away leaving him with debts.

 

Ive tried to explain to him that he isnt liable but he knows better!!!!

because his name is on the death certificate.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Villaman
added info

[sgtbush]

so as I said

the debts die with HIM.

why pontificate...

 

I didn't say for every situation..

in this one it applies....

 

 

In this case it does but not in every case.

So it makes it clear to someone reading the replys that debt does not die in every case which could of been surmised by your reply. Is quite important

[Guest]

Just asking about the legalities of signing a death certificate as the informant of death,

 

does this person legally become the executor if the deceased hasnt appointed one and no will exists.

you mean when registering the death at the registry office.

at the office they might ask for someone to be the personal representative for hmrc purposes.?

that aside, next of kin usually becomes the person dealing, but they are not responsible for any personal debts.

as the estate is small, no grant or probate would be required.

 

re inheriting tenancy (any arrears owed by the person inheriting the tenancy)

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/can_you_inherit_a_council_tenancy

[Villaman]

What kind of HMRC purposes? Next of kin is a tricky one, My elder brother is named as next of kin of my mothers passport, my sister is named as next of kin on all medical documents and there is another eldest brother, does he not become next of kin being the eldest?

 

But in a nutshell, The bother who signed for the death certificate is not legally responsible for anything? Only that he informed the resistry of death?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Villaman
Added Info

[Guest]

What kind of HMRC purposes?

any tax liabilities/rebates (but looks like none in your case)

[Guest]

basically, any 'next of kin' can 'deal' if there's no stipulation otherwise. and if more than one all are happy with whomever.

[Villaman]

Tax liabilities? What about overpaid benefits, I.E housing etc. If the deceased was receiving them but wasnt entitled to? 99% certain this isnt the case but you never know, just covering every eventuality. I need to put his mind at ease as he is a panicker.

[sgtbush]

This is the reason to be clear over DX's "sweeping" statement that debt dies with the person.

 

It does not.

In this case there is no estate so debt is written off and cannot be passed to another person.

But what if there was an estate?

[sgtbush]

In your case dont worry as your relative had no assets therefore zero estate and creditors will have to write off any debt, including utility bills, overpayments.

[Guest]

Tax liabilities? What about overpaid benefits, I.E housing etc. If the deceased was receiving them but wasnt entitled to? 99% certain this isnt the case but you never know, just covering every eventuality. I need to put his mind at ease as he is a panicker.

if hmrc think there is any outstanding tax in their remit owing then they'll prob demand it regardless on the personal rep.

but, it seems you are referring to dwp issues which may be different. not sure on that tbh.

[Villaman]

Thanks for the replies guys its much appreciated.

[Villaman]

if hmrc think there is any outstanding tax in their remit owing then they'll prob demand it regardless on the personal rep.

but, it seems you are referring to dwp issues which may be different. not sure on that tbh.

 

My mother was on state pension so no involvement with HMRC

[dx100uk]

Thanks for the replies,

Its not me thats worrying I didnt sign the death certificate.

 

I may have complicated things slightly.

The exact situation is My mother passed away recently and I am in the process of trying to obtain succession of tenancy with the council.

 

The problem is my brother who signed the death certificate believes he will be financially liable for any debt etc I build up while going through this process, like running up electric, gas, phone bills etc which are all in my mothers name at the moment.

 

I have every intention of paying these myself but older brothers being as they are,

he thinks that if things go south regarding the tenancy I'll just walk away leaving him with debts.

 

Ive tried to explain to him that he isnt liable but he knows better!!!!

because his name is on the death certificate.

 

oh well that's his problem

yours is staying in the council home...

which cold prove difficult as the tenancy might not well ascend to you.

esp if you have not lived there ....

nor are known to the council via say voters CTAX bill or otherwise.

[Villaman]

oh well that's his problem

yours is staying in the council home...

which cold prove difficult as the tenancy might not well ascend to you.

esp if you have not lived there ....

nor are known to the council via say voters CTAX bill or otherwise.

 

I've told him as much. I do have proof of living there but not electoral or council tax bill. Its mainly bank statements and utility accounts over the past 12 moonths. The property is a secure tenancy hasnt been handed down through succession previously and has been my mothers home for the past 54 years. I did live there previously but that was over 20 years ago.

[mariner51]

The 'informant of death' has no legal resp to Creditors', just the 'Estate'.

Anyone dying 'intestate' (no Will) should have a Court appointed Executor/family rep who can decide deceased Estate falls below Probate threshold.

Debt does not disappear on death but poss on presumed Grant of Probate.

Unless you can show continuous occupation at your Mother's address for 2yr at time of her death (CTax/Electoral roll entries) the Council MAY grant Succession if your Mother was the initial named T on AST.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Sorry for you loss.

 

As for Council Tenancy Succession have a look at this link: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/can_you_inherit_a_council_tenancy

[Guest]

I did live there previously but that was over 20 years ago.

seems then it might be difficult to inherit it, given the shelter link posted #9

[sgtbush]

If you had read the original post you would of noticed that assets were distributed before creditors paid.

It was only in a further post the point was clarified as of sentimental value only.

So it was important to tell the complete process.

 

I still stand that your statement of debts die with the person is not, in entirely, true.

 

could of been serious ramifications if it was found out That assets ofvalue were distributed.

[Guest]

Hi

 

 

 

As for Council Tenancy Succession have a look at this link: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/can_you_inherit_a_council_tenancy

already posted #9