agency umbrella Company making unfair? Deductions From my Wages??

[Waywardism]

I joined a recruitment agency,

upon registering they simply told me I'd be paid through another company

- no other information given.

 

 

Payroll companies are nothing new to me,

I know lots of agencies use them so I thought little of it.

 

 

Got my first payslip and noticed some dodgy deductions on there,

turns out the other company is an umbrella company and the hourly rate I was told by the agency was actually the uplifted rate paid to the umbrella company to cover all of the deductions, just to be clear none of this was explained to me by the agency.

 

My contract with the agency does state that I am not their employee.

The umbrella company have confirmed that they are my employer.

I have not signed any contract with them.

 

 

Upon asking for a copy of my contract they sent me a form I completed with my bank details on it, it has no terms or conditions of any kind.

When I asked them to confirm it to be my contract they did indeed confirm it to be.

 

After finally getting the details of all of the deductions from them,

some of which are not even itemised on the payslip,

I told them I believe they have made unlawful deductions from my wages as set out in sections 13 to 27 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 and asked them how they wished to proceed.

 

 

They then sent me a copy of an unsigned form with all of their terms and conditions of employment on it, referring to one section which allows them to make the deductions.

 

 

They are claiming that I had to accept these terms and conditions when logging onto their online portal.

This may or may not be of consequence but I logged onto it thinking that was the only way I could see my payslips and without knowing at the time that they would be classed as my employer.

 

where do I stand with this?

Can they really use the terms and conditions on their online portal as an employment contract?

Would a tribunal uphold this bull****?

[Emmzzi]

if you click to say you read something, yup, they can use that!

 

what deductions do you think are unlawful?

[Waywardism]

A fee for processing payroll, holiday pay deducted from gross and something they called an apprenticeship levy.

 

I have just been looking at the terms and conditions from their online portal, in the section about deductions it doesn't mention any of the above. It does mention holiday pay being deducted in another section though.

[Emmzzi]

they don't look ridiculous to me..... they dont have a choice about the levy, that's a tax for employers over a certain size. The fee for processing payroll, they're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. If the costs are excessive, might be time for a new job and try and get direct employment.

[Waywardism]

I don't care about them getting paid for their services, as far as I'm concerned that should be between them and the agency.

 

 

What happened to good old fashioned payroll departments,

imagine being asked by an employer to fund it for them,

that is essentially what's happening.

What next, shall we pay their marketing budgets too.

 

 

The apprenticeship levy as stated is a tax for employers, not employees, why am I paying it.

It might not be ridiculous by the standards of umbrella companies,

but to an employee duped into this nonsense it is very much so.

 

 

Neither of these are mentioned in their terms and conditions, I don't see how it can be legal.

 

On another point, slightly off topic, I didn't pay any income tax even though I earned well over the threshold.

 

 

They claimed tax relief for expenses on my behalf.

I didn't ask for this and I don't agree with it.

 

 

I'm one of those weird people that wants to pay their way in full and help fund all the hospitals, schools, emergency services, welfare, etc, etc. I don't even know where to begin with that.

 

Welcome to ****** ******** ******** Online Portal

The online portal will allow you to enter and track expense claims, access historical and current pay slip information and change any personal details that we hold for you.

Please click on the link below and choose a password to activate your online account.

[link]

Please ensure that you make a note of your user ID and password as this will be required every time you log into the online portal.

Following your registration you may access the portal at:

 

www.**********************.co.uk

Kind Regards

 

Registration Team

 

info@**********************.co.uk

01*** *** ***

 

 

This is the email I received, redacted of course, from the umbrella company inviting me to login to the online portal.

 

 

Considering they said it will allow mw to view my payslips,

is there not a case for me to say that anything I agreed to upon logging into it was done so under duress?

[Emmzzi]

umbrella company = basically self employed.

I think you really do need to have a more thorough read of the T&Cs.

 

This is the email I received, redacted of course, from the umbrella company inviting me to login to the online portal. Considering they said it will allow mw to view my payslips, is there not a case for me to say that anything I agreed to upon logging into it was done so under duress?

 

Get away, that's just silly.

 

Legally duress is stuff like "we have a gun pointed at your wife's head." Not "I can't be arsed reading the instructions or calling to ask you for a differnt way to view my payslips."

[Waywardism]

Ah but I was careful to make sure they confirmed that I was their employee.

 

Ok maybe not harsh enough for duress but undue influence.

[Emmzzi]

Ah but I was careful to make sure they confirmed that I was their employee.

 

well of course.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_company

 

You've signed up to a thing you don't like and are now arguing the toss about their perfectly legal practices.

 

 

What are you looking for?

A day in court?

A cake?

 

 

Someone to tell you you're not bound by anything you can't be bothered reading?

 

Let's wait and see if any of those come along.....

 

Ok maybe not harsh enough for duress but undue influence.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undue_influence_in_English_law

 

No.

[Waywardism]

How is it reasonable to expect that T&Cs on an online portal which you've been asked to sign up to to be able to view payslips and file expenses will cover anything other than the use of that portal, let alone constitute an employment contract?

 

Of course I didn't read the bloody thing I'm a normal guy with some semblance of a life.

 

I can't even be sure I ticked a box for it.

 

I can't even be sure that there is even an option to view those T&Cs when signing up and that the company isn't just making it up on the spot to cover their arses.

[sgtbush]

Of course I didn't read the bloody thing I'm a normal guy with some semblance of a life........

 

But unwise enough to read a contract.

You must of put a tick in a box otherwise you cant register.

 

If you dont agree to the t n c then don't work for them. You have a choice. Use your feet.

 

Your looking for a scapegoat when your the only one to blame.

 

You didn't read something and now even tho you had to read them you dont agree to what you agreed to.

 

Who's fault do you think that is??

[disgruntled2007]

So.... you know it's an umbrella company..... presumably you also know what that means...

 

You haven't paid any income tax.....

 

You now disagree with their fees....

 

Wow...

 

Are you for real?

[sangie5952]

 

Of course I didn't read the bloody thing I'm a normal guy with some semblance of a life.

.

 

Really? Right now your semblance of life appears to consist of tilting at windmills. If you didn't know that you signed up, then more fool you. It should be a valuable lesson in reading things before you agree to something, but it probably won't be. Being too lazy to read your own conditions is down to you. And if you didn't know what you were signing up to, you should have asked.

[Waywardism]

I'm not looking for any kind of scapegoat, it's not about blame.

 

Yes from a legal point of view it's my fault, I'm an honest guy and in turn expect others to be honest. In matters like this that's clearly a fault.

 

All I wanted was the money promised to me in person.

 

As for the last post no, before this I had never heard of an umbrella company.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying I should be happy to not pay income tax? Therefore I should count my blessings and shut up?

[sangie5952]

I'm not looking for any kind of scapegoat, it's not about blame.

 

Yes from a legal point of view it's my fault, I'm an honest guy and in turn expect others to be honest. In matters like this that's clearly a fault.

 

All I wanted was the money promised to me in person.

 

As for the last post no, before this I had never heard of an umbrella company.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying I should be happy to not pay income tax? Therefore I should count my blessings and shut up?

 

No. I am saying that it doesn't matter what your complaint is. What you want is not going to happen. Somewhere in this process you signed up to the umbrella company - your agency couldn't have passed your details to them unless you did. Unless you passed your details to them, in which case you did it directly. You might not like umbrella companies, but they operate strictly within the law, and you didn't end up having your money paid through one unless you agreed to this, somewhere.

 

And you pay income tax if income tax is due. Umbrella companies do not flout tax regulations. You may be able to claim some expenses against tax, but any self-employed person can do that, which is what you are. You pay the umbrella company to act on your behalf add the employer - they aren't actually the employer.

 

Umbrella companies have routinely been used by agencies for many years now. They are a familiar part of the contracting landscape. And they operate professionally and legally - whether or not you like them. There is no way that they have simply signed you up without permission. But if you wish to withdraw your permission, you may, by giving up the work. The agency are under no obligation to allow you to receive the money directly or by any other method. And most, if you won't use an umbrella company, require evidence of your own company status trading. In which case toy wool set up a company and pay your own accountant etc - to claim all the tax allowances that the umbrella company is claiming for you. I'm sure you're really one of the few people who rejoices in all the taxes you have to pay, so you'll be pleased to know that you'll be paying all the taxes you owe just the same; and that wanting to pay more tax isn't a legitimate reason to claim an unlawful deduction against a company that haven't unlawfully deducted anything.

[ericsbrother]

in short, they are one of the sh!tty parts of the gig economy. To avoid such companies you will have to change the sort of work you do.

[sangie5952]

in short, they are one of the sh!tty parts of the gig economy. To avoid such companies you will have to change the sort of work you do.

 

I'm not sure I would agree. You can set up your own company and sort these things yourself if you want to. If you want to spend your time doing your accounts and sorting out your own taxes then you can do so. Most people have better things to do with their time and money than this, and are happy to go with the arrangement. They work for a lot of people. And don't for some. But that is true of anything.