Right to Demand Reasons for Suspension

[Beatrixx]

It looks like a Mexican stand off so you are best off doing what they are doing, avoiding making the first move.

 

Yes, I have a feeling they are waiting for me to resign; this suspension simply is to break me. I won't resign until I know what actions they are planning to take.

[sangie5952]

That's why you need to leave the ball in their court. They must come to a decision. You don't make it easy for them. They are currently paying you for nothing. And there has to be "an end in sight" - the longer they leave it, the more scope they give you for a legal redress. So you don't jump in there and solve their problem for them.

[king12345]

Turn your phone off and sellotape your letterbox so they can't contact you and you get pay for staying at home

Only joking!

You could do that for a week or so, but not indefinitely...

No, don't do it, or maybe do it?

[Beatrixx]

They fired me on the basis I discussed my case with a colleague and non-staff who work with another organisation. I did discuss this with a colleague because I broke down when they contacted me as they were concerned about my whereabouts. All I said to them was I had been suspended, I begged them not to say anything but obviously they did.

 

The latter, I did speak to friends about this but in a pub or over coffee, and this was away from my place of work. I don't understand how they could fire me on that basis. My suspension letter didn't say not to speak to friends.

 

I don't have the right to appeal.

 

Also they say the accusations were founded, but I will never know what they were.

 

I concerned about the speaking to non-staff. How can they dismiss me for this? How can they know I spoke to my friends? Why wouldn't I be allow to speak to my friends about this?

 

Can I request all information they have about me regarding my case?

[Beatrixx]

 

The latter, I did speak to friends about this but in a pub or over coffee, and this was away from my place of work. I don't understand how they could fire me on that basis. My suspension letter didn't say not to speak to friends.

 

 

The dismissal letter states that I discussed my suspension "on numerous occasions on the premises of another organisation with staff who do not work at my now former company". I didn't. When people asked me why I wasn't at work I told them I was on extended leave or was off work with stress. I was careful not to tell peers from within the industry why I was off work. All I can think of is a dear friend was once a former colleague from a previous job; she still works there. I asked her not to tell anyone at this company and trusted her not to. Even if she did, how can that be me telling people on numerous occasions?

 

And the colleague who I did speak to, I know I breached the terms of my suspension and was fully expecting the worse to happen. It only happened this week and I've since discovered they spoke to their line manager because they were concerned about me. This was also the person I asked permission to have as my support. Not that this matters anymore.

[Beatrixx]

Sorry, should have put my questions in one post.

 

I have an interview on Wednesday. What do I say to them when they ask why I've left and why I can start immediately?

 

And I've already sent the Data Subject Access request. I did my own research and the ICO say that is is acceptable to request information held on my personnel record.

[Emmzzi]

Hello,

 

because of your short length of service the SRO etc is going to get you nowhere but may annoy your former employer

 

I woud call HR and ask what sort of reference they issue in your circumstances.

[Beatrixx]

Hello,

 

because of your short length of service the SRO etc is going to get you nowhere but may annoy your former employer

 

I woud call HR and ask what sort of reference they issue in your circumstances.

 

I don't care anymore. Their allegations are based on half truths. Yes, contact was made with a colleague and I've should have ignored them - I was wrong and should have controlled my emotions. However I did not speak to non-Staff on numerous occasions on a other organisation's premises. I've hardly left my flat let alone my suburb. Local pub with friends and that is all I'm guilty of.

 

And these harassment claims! People say 'you must have done something'. I haven't! Apart from the station (ive read the apology again and it was sincere, not from someone who was about to report me) and unfriending on FB. The other situations simply do not exist.

 

Sorry, I'm beyond worrying about my now ex-employers feelings.

 

And I know you are trying to help but I'm so angry and haven't slept st all

[sangie5952]

I'm very sorry that it's come to this. But I think Emmzzi is right. But it won't help if you've already sent it. And it won't get you anything worth having.

 

I think you need to be clear, whatever has happened here, it seems that everything you have said to people has got back to the employer somehow. And whilst you may dispute the details, it seems the facts of the matter are true - even one instance of discussing this with a colleague would have been enough for dismissal, even had you had two years service.

 

As for the interview, I think that you are between a rock and a hard place, but in general, the truth is the least dangerous route. If you lie and get found out, you can be dismissed for that. And two dismissals starts to look like a severe problem to prospective employers. I would suggest a very short version that says that you were suspended for something you didn't do, and whilst suspended you spoke to your chosen representative and were dismissed for doing so. That you don't believe this is fair, but there was nothing you could do about it, so you are unable to clear your name, which got are very angry and upset about, but recognise that you must let it go and move on. That's it. Don't go into more detail. Don't try to make further explanations. Just the basic facts.

 

And whatever is going on here, please understand that whatever the employers motivations are here, people that you know and trusted have said things about you that have provided an excuse. It seems that you have misread people - from the original incident onwards. If they were worthy of your trust, this would not have got back to your employer. If the person from the original incident meant it, they wouldn't have reported you. I'm afraid it's a hard lesson to learn, but colleagues can and do turn on people. And they can and do gossip. And that includes colleagues you don't immediately work with.

[king12345]

I would have thought that speaking about the suspension with your nominated representative would be essential to prepare for the meeting.

How can someone represent or support a colleague if they don't know the facts?

[sangie5952]

I would have thought that speaking about the suspension with your nominated representative would be essential to prepare for the meeting.

How can someone represent or support a colleague if they don't know the facts?

I think that the way I read it is that the person wasn't going with her at the time she spoke to her. And if that person was, then they did wrong by going to speak to someone else about it. The OP said that this colleague phoned her, she told her what was happening and then the colleague went to their own manager. That is the breach. To ask a colleague to accompany you, you don't discuss the matter with them until after you have notified management and asked for agreement to discuss it - with that person only. And that person is bound to keep everything confidential. If they had already done this, and then discussed it, then the other person could be facing a disciplinary for disclosing the information.

[Beatrixx]

Disclaimer - I've only had 2 hours sleep so forgive me for anything not right with my post.

 

Thanks for the advice regarding the interview.

 

There has been some very interesting development which has place clarity on the allegations against me. I'm please I have sent the Data Subject Request.

 

Before I launch into my story; I've written a letter to HR asking for clarification on some points in my dismissal letter. In this I've given brief feedback about my original grievance in that I was disappointed that no support was given to me during this time and how this impacted my mental health to the point I was attending counselling. Plus my version of events regarding the colleague who contacted me. And I've also asked them to remove the point about contacting people from other organisations as my suspension letter does not refer to this. I've not sent this letter, should I just keep to my queries about those points and edit out the personal statements?

 

The harassment claims:

 

The "numerous occasions on the premises of another organisation with staff who do not work at my now former company" claim.

 

There is bi-monthly peer networking meeting, the last one was Friday just gone (I didn't attended). It is hosted on the premises of one of the organisations. After many years of attending this group, I have become great friends with a number of my peers. This morning I received a message from one of these friends (who I spoke to on the day I was suspended) asking if my dismissal has anything to do with her asking after me at this meeting. She told my colleague (who doesn't me like) that she had spoken to me during my 'absence of leave' and hoped whatever had me off had sorted itself.

 

My nominated representative got in contact with me after they discovered the colleague who attended the network meeting had taken ownership of my projects. I raised this with HR therefore this colleague would have been spoken to by my line manager. They definitely would have said something about my friend asking after me.

 

Traffic light harassment

 

A group us from work saw a show together. The venue was near our place of work. As we were leaving we bumped into my line manager. The group then split into two with half heading slight ahead with the line manager. When we got to the traffic lights the group I was with crossed and the line manager group continued on. We all shouted out in unison "goodbye then" a number of times until we got a response.

 

Bar harassment

 

I was approached by the person who complained about me in attempted to make amends. I clearly stated that this was neither the time or the place. They had been drinking before I arrived so persisted. I left the bar after drinking half my drink and headed off to meet friends who were at another bar. However the incident wound me up so much, I headed straight home. The next day I spoke to my line manager about this because I was not happy as the incident had spoilt my evening.

 

Station harassment

 

I was too upset to come into work the next day so I contacted a senior manager for advice and support (my line manager wasn't in the office). While I did say something I shouldn't have, the person I said it too approached me at the station and persisting in asking how I was. I don't remember what he had said next. When I starting crying he tried to comfort me by hugging, I asked him not to but again he persisted. The witness rescued me and saw me home. The senior manager I reported it to spoke to my line manager and told me not to worry.

 

Do you see a theme here? My line manager. The one who told me that other senior managers advised him to dismiss me in favour of my new colleague, who started just as my problems started. The one who ignored my grievance and the one who told me there had been complaints about me but couldn't tell me what they were. He also told me on the morning of my suspension that I had nothing to worry about as he believed my side of the story and would back me.

[Beatrixx]

I think that the way I read it is that the person wasn't going with her at the time she spoke to her. And if that person was, then they did wrong by going to speak to someone else about it. The OP said that this colleague phoned her, she told her what was happening and then the colleague went to their own manager. That is the breach. To ask a colleague to accompany you, you don't discuss the matter with them until after you have notified management and asked for agreement to discuss it - with that person only. And that person is bound to keep everything confidential. If they had already done this, and then discussed it, then the other person could be facing a disciplinary for disclosing the information.

 

Sangie - you are very correct.

[Emmzzi]

Can you take a step back? They have let you go. They can let you go legally. Whatever the rights and wrongs, I do not think they will take you back. So what is actually worth trying to secure here? A clean-ish reference. Any owed holiday pay. That's about it. I think your anger is preventing you from focussing on what you nee for the future. Talk about a reference and leave coal-raking for another day when you are in your next job.

[Beatrixx]

Can you take a step back? They have let you go. They can let you go legally. Whatever the rights and wrongs, I do not think they will take you back. So what is actually worth trying to secure here? A clean-ish reference. Any owed holiday pay. That's about it. I think your anger is preventing you from focussing on what you nee for the future. Talk about a reference and leave coal-raking for another day when you are in your next job.

 

I want justice! Haha. No seriously, I want clarification on the harassment claims for my own peace of mind. It I see the claims then I will happily disappear and speak of it no more. This line manager has history and I was warned about him before I started - but I thought it would be different for me. He is proud that he got rid of his entire department and replaced them with new people. I gave him an excuse to get rid of me and it is my own fault. I don't want to go back, not in that job.

 

He will be gone before the year is over and in a couple of years time my incident will be long forgotten.

 

I will edit the letter to only highlight what I want clarification on and ask for my belongings back. I also have to remind them about the conference; they need to cancel everything or transfer it to someone else.

[Emmzzi]

That's what you WANT What do you NEED? Not the same at all. I think you're going to drive yourself crazy looking for retribution from an organisation that has shown it does not care, is not on your side, and backs its managers. Salvage what you can and move on for the sake of your mental health. Maybe leave it til Monday to do anything....

[sangie5952]

Emmzzi is right. They are not going to tell you what you want, and they don't have to. What others have said in the investigation will not be disclosed. All you will get is the bare bones that your already know, and nothing else. Your record might contain the fact that allegations were made. The fact that you were suspended. That an investigation is under way. But since it had not proceeded to a disciplinary, you won't get any more detail than that. And whatever anyone else said about you in the investigation, that is confidential and you won't be given it. And think about it... By carrying on in this way, all you are doing is proving their point that you are difficult. If there was a purpose, then fine - but there is no purpose here. You are simply hurting yourself more by attempting to hash it over every day, and then some. Your best revenge now is to go on and get another job, then make a success of it. Believe me, it will be far more satisfying.

[Beatrixx]

That's what you WANT What do you NEED? Not the same at all. I think you're going to drive yourself crazy looking for retribution from an organisation that has shown it does not care, is not on your side, and backs its managers. Salvage what you can and move on for the sake of your mental health. Maybe leave it til Monday to do anything....

 

 

My letter will cover:

 

• They've barred me from talking to staff from that organisation, I'm very friendly with a number of people. I want clarification that if someone now contacts me and wishes to maintain a non-professional relationship with me, this is acceptable.
  
• The company premises is also a very public place, I want clarification what 'company premises' means. Does it mean the office space or does it extend to the public areas. I actually have to walk through this to get to my station when I am in town.
  
• I want my belongings.
  
• I want them to cancel my conference registration before the remaining charges are taken from my card.
  

 

I'm not going to raise any other issues. I've received a number of messages of support this morning as the word has somehow got out. It's had a very calming effect on me. Plus typing it all out on here has helped massively.

 

Thank you all for 'listening' and your advice.

[sangie5952]

My letter will cover:

 

• They've barred me from talking to staff from that organisation, I'm very friendly with a number of people. I want clarification that if someone now contacts me and wishes to maintain a non-professional relationship with me, this is acceptable.
  
• The company premises is also a very public place, I want clarification what 'company premises' means. Does it mean the office space or does it extend to the public areas. I actually have to walk through this to get to my station when I am in town.
  
• I want my belongings.
  
• I want them to cancel my conference registration before the remaining charges are taken from my card.
  

 

I'm not going to raise any other issues. I've received a number of messages of support this morning as the word has somehow got out. It's had a very calming effect on me. Plus typing it all out on here has helped massively.

 

Thank you all for 'listening' and your advice.

 

Leave out 1 and 2! You do not want to ask the first question. They have no power now to instruct you not to do anything, so they cannot tell you not to talk to their staff. They CAN, however, ban their staff from talking to you. Do you really want to place someone else in the firing line for a disciplinary because they speak to you? That isn't really fair on your former colleagues. If they wish to speak to you, it is up to you whether you want to talk to them or not. And the employer isn't likely to think of threatening them unless you raise it first. Then they will!

 

They can ban you from their private property. They cannot ban you from a public space which s not in their control. Which I suspect you already know, and you are being pedantic because you are angry with them. It sounds childish, and you are better than that.

 

Contact your card issuer as well and tell them that you want the charges stopping, just in case they don't.

[Beatrixx]

Thank you so much Sangie!! Oh my gosh, this is the best news I've had all day. I'm crying tears of happiness right now. I thought this was legally binding and I didn't want to lose some close friends.

 

I honestly did not know about the public space. I thought because they managed it I was to stay away.

 

Consider points 1 and 2 deleted.

[BazzaS]

Is it a public place?

Or is it private land to which the public are granted an implied right of access?

 

Is there no other access to the station other than across the land they manage?

[Beatrixx]

Is it a public place?

Or is it private land to which the public are granted an implied right of access?

 

Is there no other access to the station other than across the land they manage?

 

I'm not sure. It's not a privately owned building nor is the surrounding land. The land is owned by either the Government or the local government.

 

There is a long way around.

[BazzaS]

Until you are sure you have a right of access, go the long way around.

[sangie5952]

If it is an access route to a station, I cannot see that they own it as that is a public right of way. Unless they actually own the building that the access route passes through. Even then, I think they would be on a sticky wicket trying to ban someone from a public place. But right now, your perfect defence is that you didn't enter their premises, so what are they talking about, this is a public right of way isn't it? What are they going to do???

 

Concentrate now on the interview. Let us know what happens. And if this gets in the way of your getting a job, we can think about ways of dealing with that later. Right now you need to put this behind you and just work on being in a state to succeed at the interview.

[ericsbrother]

The reasons for dismissing you were a bit thin and look like they were just padding to say that there was a breakdown in trust, which can really mean anything and is open to abuse. However, with a short service period that is enough so dont chew over the whys and wherefores, they are just a fig leaf.

Dont forget to tell your prospective employer that you have a holiday booked and make sure that you enjoy it. Arrange to collect your belonging by appointment so there are no misunderstandings. You might find you are just picking up a bin liner from security so make sure they know of anything valuable left there in drawers or lockers so they can pay particular attention to that and avoid arguments about them after you have been given your stuff.