PPM/Gladstones Claimform - Windscreen PCN old Closed Iceland Store farnburn av, slough sl1 4xt . **DISMISSED**

[parkinghelp1]

anyone? its in 2 days

[honeybee13]

ok thanks, bit worried now.. how will this go down, what kind of questions are they going to ask me ! :l

 

Hi. What is who going to ask you please?

 

HB

[shamrocker]

ok thanks, bit worried now.. how will this go down, what kind of questions are they going to ask me ! :l

 

There's a fair chance you won't get asked anything, as the judge will expect you to provide all information in support of your defence when it's your turn to speak. Get it all written down on paper and head it with "Skeleton Argument"....and then just read it out, point by point. If you need to refer to a case bundle, then have the relevant pages marked out in advance, and then tell the judge which page it's on and on which para etc. If you've brought copies of relevant legislation, cases, etc. with you that you refer to on the day, just mention that "you've brought copies with you, if you'd like to have one Sir/Madam".

 

Keep it simple and to the facts, and don't get drawn away from what you've got written down...and stay away from discussing who was driving the vehicle etc. Keep if focused on the absence of contract (which is what the opposition is claiming i.e. they have contractual rights). You won't need to argue or debate anything.

 

Maybe post up the points you'll be making and ericsbrother might help you tighten up a bit, if necessary.

 

P.S. You should give a copy of the skeleton to the judge and other side's solicitor.

[parkinghelp1]

Hi. What is who going to ask you please?

 

HB

 

the court? the judge?

[parkinghelp1]

@shamrocker

 

oh really!

how is the layout of this case in court.

. judge at the front me then their solicitor on the right or left side?

 

so when the judge asks me,

all i have to do is refer to the points i have in my written statement just read that out.

 

. will they ask questinos like,

were you the driver of the vehicle?

did you park there?

 

in which i guess i would just have to say,

i did not enter into any contractual agreement to pay any charge?

will it be a full on conversation or just relaying points to the judge.

i will post up the skeleton version also.

 

i really dont feel like going now :l

[shamrocker]

how is the layout of this case in court.

. judge at the front me then their solicitor on the right or left side?

 

Judge sat at their desk facing you, and then you and the opposition sat side by side at a standard desk. That's my experience of it.

 

so when the judge asks me,

all i have to do is refer to the points i have in my written statement just read that out.

 

Your WS covers all the main points for your defence, so it's going to be your friend. If you don't feel comfortable saying too much on the day, you could maybe take the approach of making a concise attack on the main points and then simply state "I refer to this in point x within my witness statement". Just line the main points up and reel them off one by one. I'm really not very well versed in this subject area, but I do know that during your first time in court, your stomach will be in a knot, so the simpler your strategy the easier it will make the experience. Don't ramble on about anything you haven't planned for or you'll erode the impact of your main points, and ultimately play into the hands of the other side.

 

Don't get emotive about any of it. It won't help your case. Just be polite and professional. Don't take anything personally that the other side says about you or your defence - they're good at sounding convincing, but just think of them as con-artists. The judge won't be stupid and will appreciate a good coherent defence that addresses the key points in a nice and simple manner.

 

will they ask questinos like,

were you the driver of the vehicle?

did you park there?

 

They may well do, but you can plan a response for that - right??

 

in which i guess i would just have to say,

i did not enter into any contractual agreement to pay any charge?

will it be a full on conversation or just relaying points to the judge.

i will post up the skeleton version also.

 

Personally, I would just say that "no, it definitely was not me who parked the vehicle there, but I fail to see the relevance of that in light of the issues I raise within my witness statement."

 

i really dont feel like going now :l

 

It's not as bad as you might imagine. You are on really solid ground here, so the judge is likely to be fairly supportive....especially as you're a LIP. Hold your nerve and you're likely to come away with a win, from which you'll gain a lot of satisfaction and be glad you saw it through. Giving up is just what these robbers want and will hand them easy cash that they don't deserve. Go there and show them they can't just bully good people into handing over their hard earned cash for no reason.

 

It's important that you spend time considering how you'll put your case forward though. Don't just leave it and hope it all falls into place, because it won't. You've still got plenty of time to get your head straight on it.

[ericsbrother]

the judge tells the claimant to say why they are claiming from you and then the judge may ask questions and then you can ask questions of that and then will say why you shouldnt be paying and they can ask questions of that.

 

Both sides will be asked to sum up and the judeg will then formally go through the points raised, the applicable law as they see it and tell you what they have decided.

 

One thing you need to do is ask for the other side's representative what their SRA roll number is because if they are not a solicitor or dont work for PPM they are not allowed to speak.

 

You need to do this as soon as you get into the courtroom.

Take a copy of the relevant legislation that covers representation, it is referredto on many threads in the Parking Prankster's blog.

 

If they arent a lawyer their rubbish POC will sink them as you can then challenge the content,

Authority to make a claim,

why they are claiming (contract or breach of contract-they never say which it is)

why they are suing you as keeper when POFA not used to create a keeper liability etc as well as the other issues.

 

This may be enough for the judge to call it to a halt before getting to any evidence of the parking itself.

Edited November 29, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[parkinghelp1]

so what if the judge turns around and says did you park there and why did you park there knowing the terms that were on the signage..do i just say

" there was no contract taken out,

Further to this the claim fails to identify how the claimant has a cause for action against the defendant as they say EITHER keeper or driver.

 

These are not the same and as PPM do not rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to create a keeper liability the defendant asks for proof as to who was the driver at the time of the event.

 

what if the judge just asks straight outright if it was me..

do i admit it it was me who parked there or say,

"There was no signage at the entrance to the land to indicate that you were being offered conditions to park if you entered that land from the public highway.

This then makes the small signs on the walls of surrounding buldings and at the rear of the site unclear and inadequate as there is no clear indication as to what land is covered by any agreement and the siting of the signs means that they are easily overlooked.

 

It is therefore denied that there was offer and acceptance of anything by way of this signage as the driver didnt notice them.

 

the signage itself is not an offer of a contract but a notice taht parking is for permit holders only.

 

This effectively prevents others from being offered a licence to park by way of an offer and consideration of a contract and thus anyone else would be trespassing as they do not have a permit that gives then licence to park.

[ericsbrother]

your scenario is uncommon

so what you dont do is play with words.

 

You say that for example the parking co have not created a keeper libility and I am not going to name the driver at the time.

You cannot be forced to incriminate yourself or anyone else.

 

Judges like the claimant to make their case and you to how & why it isnt so.

Sometimes the claim is so flawed procedurally it cant be allowed to continue and the judge will question the claimant before you are allowed to have a go at anythng.

 

Likewise, if you put your defence down solely as " it isnt fair" then the judge is likely to question you about this to the exclusion of any other point and then find for the claimant regardless of the quality of the claim.

 

That may seem a little unfair but there is nothing to stop you or anyone else taking advice on how to do things and if you havent then that is tough.

 

Dont forget, this all replaces trial by combat and it is not so long ago that was scrapped.

Scotland still had it until the 1990's

[parkinghelp1]

ok so just some answers im revising if they get asked and im assuming these qs will most likely get asked please feel free to add any other qs and responses that could be possinble.

 

Q) were you the driver at the time of the vehicle?

A) the parking company have not created a keeper liability therefore i am not going to name the driver at the time.

 

Q) your vehicle was parked on the premises where the signage applied and conditions were not met which is why this PCN was given

A) no contract was taken out or agreed too, the defendants vehicles was present for less than 5 minutes,This grace period is set by the BPA as being at least 10 minutes and as they are the principal Trade association for parking companies their minimum 10 minute grace period becomes the accepted code of practice for this.

 

anything else they can ask and anything i need to add if asked to those questions... i suppose ill have the witness statement i wrote infront of me so i can easily just read over that and refer to that..

 

will it in be in like a small room or a proper court where the judge is up at the top on his stand

[parkinghelp1]

"one thing you need to do is ask for the other side's representative what their SRA roll number is because if they are not a solicitor or dont work for PPM they are not allowed to speak."

you also said this, how ill i confirm this by there SRA roll number that they work for ppm or are a solicitor?

[honeybee13]

will it in be in like a small room or a proper court where the judge is up at the top on his stand

 

This was answered in post #81, it should be much less formal than court rooms you see on TV. Remember to call the judge Sir or Madam though.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

Depends where it is held,

older courts have fixed wooden seating like pews in church and a slighly raised bench

(have been in a court like that but the judge sat at a table in front of the bench),

more modern ones have a fixed desk and everyone else sits in front of this at desks that can look remarkably cheap school furniture.

 

You are usually invited to plonk yourself down where you want to sit and the other side are then told to sit next to you with a small gap so you are slightly left and right of the front of the bench.

 

The judge doesnt dress up unless for some strange reason you wish to employ a barrister and then they both have to don their garb.

Room sizes vary, I have had a Case Management hearing held in chambers, which is a side cupboard where judges put their coat and papers etc before entering court. Barely enough room for 3 chairs.

 

As already said,

the judge will tell you the running order on who speaks first,

when to ask questions etc and invites you to summarise.

 

They then record their formal spiel about thow they arrived at the decision they are about to give and thenfinally say they find for the claimant/defendant and say that all monies/costs should be paid by such a time and whetehr an appeal would be allowed if it looks like a contentious decision.

 

On rare occasions they may say they wish to consider the matter and will let you know by post or calling you back in say 14 days.

 

I cant see that happening for a parking claim but if you raised disability discrimination as the thrust of your defence then they may have to refer themselves to another judge or court.

[parkinghelp1]

hi it got dismissed, they didnt show

[dx100uk]

well done everyone..

 

 

don't forget to put back all the help CAG has given you

keep us operating.

think about donating something please

 

dx

[silverfox1961]

Well that's a turn up for the books-NOT!

 

Well done. Did you think about asking for your costs?

 

I would have gone for LiP costs due to the unreasonable conduct of the claimant.

[parkinghelp1]

the judge asked me about travel and parking costs and loss of earnings which we sorted.. i didnt know i was able to claim for unreasonable conduct of the claimant, am i still able to, and is it worth still claiming and how much would i be able to claim..

 

BIG THANK YOU to everyone that has helped on here, i wouldnt of known what to write or do... you lot are good people and what you do is appreciated!

[ericsbrother]

well done for you.

Unlikely you can claim costs as you didnt present them at the time. You could have asked for them under CPR27.14.2g, it is in a myriad of other posts so not exactly a secret. As you got back your expenses for the day then you havent lost out by not doing this.

[parkinghelp1]

you guys are clever!

[silverfox1961]

you guys are clever!

 

Thank you for that comment. I'm sure the members who have helped will take heart from that.

[shamrocker]

the judge asked me about travel and parking costs and loss of earnings which we sorted.. i didnt know i was able to claim for unreasonable conduct of the claimant, am i still able to, and is it worth still claiming and how much would i be able to claim..

 

BIG THANK YOU to everyone that has helped on here, i wouldnt of known what to write or do... you lot are good people and what you do is appreciated!

 

Well done! Delighted for you. It just goes to show, despite how concerned you might have felt about your prospects in court, you didn't know that you'd actually caused your opponent to basically concede...largely thanks to EB and co. who created such a strong defence and WS for you.

 

It's a shame they didn't show up though, and create another case that can be used against them in future claims.