CPMUK/Gladstones PCN Claimform - Social Housing Parking

[DarwinUK]

Dear sirs,

 

your client know that there is no cause for action against me, they are claiming for a breach of contract that does not and cannot exist, was never offered by way of signage and in short they don’t have a hope in hell in making a successful claim.

 

However, I'm sure that as the world’s greatest authority on parking matters you are quite happy to encourage them to waste their money on a wild goose chase so at least let them know that they don’t stand a chance in hell of getting a penny and will suffer a claim for costs and a counterclaim for breach of the DPA as they have made untrue claims to obtain my keeper details.

[DarwinUK]

Silly question. Whats free POP ?

[dx100uk]

proof of posting..

[DarwinUK]

Hello Everyone.

 

Yesterday I received the Northampton County Court Claim Form.

 

Would you be able to offer advise on how to go online and respond.

 

Thanks

Phillip

 

 

Particulars of claim

 

"The driver of the vehicle registration *** (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on 29,04.2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at ADDRESS.

The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle.

 

AND THE CALIMANT CLAIMS

160 pounds for parking charges / Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of 15.51 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing to judgement at 0.04 pence per day

[dx100uk]

please complete this

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***

[DarwinUK]

Daft question.

 

 

Ive drafted the details from the link, do I post it here ? Ive also contacted the HA for a Freedom of Information request to see what type of contract they have with UK CPM

 

 

Thanks

Phillip

[DarwinUK]

Name of the Claimant : UK Car Park Management

claimants Solicitors: Gladstones

 

Date of issue : 14 Aug 2018

 

Particulars of claim

 

1.The driver of the vehicle registration (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on 29,04.2017 for breaching the terms of parking on the land at Dyson Close - Dyson Close Newbury Berkshire RG14 5QD

 

2.The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle.

 

3.AND THE CALIMANT CLAIMS

160 pounds for parking charges/ Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of 15.51 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing to judgement at 0.04 pence per day

 

Value of claim : 250.51

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company ? Yes

 

1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of ....

 

2. It is denied that the Claimant has complied with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The alledged parking charge offence took place on

 

29/04/2017, the Notice To Keeper letter was issued by UK CPM on 16/04/2017 and received by the registered keeper on 20/05/2017. This notice has therefore not been served within the time limits specified by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.

 

The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

 

4. If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because :

 

A - The signs were not clearly visible,

B - Placed too high up on the posts,

C - Too far away from the entrance to the car park

D - After receiving the Notice To Keeper I visited the car park to take photos. One of the conditions on the sign is "You must park wholly within a marked bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / paved / hatched or landscape areas". The bays are not clearly marked as which are assigned to tenants and which are visitor bays, and other vehicles were parked on roadways and pavements.

 

E - UK Car Park Management do not physically attend the car park to manage parking.

 

A designated tenant takes photos of cars, emails them to UK Car Park Management, UK CPM then raise a Notice To Keeper and on payment of the Parking Charge Notice the designated tenant is paid ten pounds.

 

5. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

Edited August 16, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[dx100uk]

no point in the FOI

 

its what the claimant holds

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim)

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

 

 

…..

 

do not file that defence yet

await the 33 days

[DarwinUK]

Thanks dx100uk.

 

 

Online done, letter done, going into post.

[ericsbrother]

the cut and paste defence you have chosen wont do you much good as your vehicle was parked in your space do it may be taken as read that you were the driver. Now, the NTK may well have other errors that means NO-one becomes liable under the POFA and then they are stuck. I have not seen a case where this has ben put forward because it would be unwise to rely entirely upon that point if you have other more compelling evidence that you arent liable.

 

 

When it comes to it you will need a copy of your tenancy agreement to see what it says about parking and the rights of a third party to tell you what to do. Chances are that there is nothing in the agreement but there well may be something that says where you must park or not park and this cant be overridden just because some bandits have muscled in and given so called permits that are nothing but an administrative convenience.

 

have you complained to the HA about the harassment by the tenant taking the piccies? It may well be against the prevention of Terrorism Act but that is something you dont want to try out with the court but might frighten the HA into deciding that the tenant should desist so demand from them what authority this bod has for harassing the other residents

Edited August 17, 2018 by honeybee13

[DarwinUK]

Sorry ericsbrother, but you keep saying my car was at my own home, in a parking space outside my own home. It wasnt. I didnt receive a Parking Charge Notice for parking outside my own home.

 

The Notice To Keeper was sent because the car was parked at another private car park owned by the same HA as I rent my place from.

 

I have now received confirmation from the HA saying that there is no agreement between the HA and UK CPM, so Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC) must be relevant.

 

 

I will also take your advice about the tennat taking piccies etc.

 

 

Thanks

Phillip

Edited August 17, 2018 by dx100uk
Quote

[dx100uk]

Nice win coming then

Dont forget ask for costs too!!

[DarwinUK]

Hello dx100uk

 

Hope so....

.. So do I still wait the full time before posting my defence ?

Or do I do it early ?

Im definitely going to ask for costs.

 

Do I add a request to claim for costs at the court, or online ?

 

Please excuse me asking silly questions, never been in this position before.

 

And Im assuming costs mean travel expenses / parking only, and that asking for extra for harrassment wont wash.

Edited August 17, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[dx100uk]

File as normal

Ask for costs on the day

£19ph LiT costs and or £90 loss of earnings if you work

[DarwinUK]

LiT = Litigation ? For attending court and defending myself ?

[honeybee13]

Hi. I think dx probably means LiP costs, litigant in person. I think it's £19 ph or maybe a bit more and I think ericsbrother has mentioned that around five hours is about the right amount to claim. I expect he'll confirm later.

 

 

HB

[dx100uk]

ive got a bit of a lisp today

On an unfamiliar system in a cafe

[ericsbrother]

5 hrs LiP research @£19.50/hr is the maximum you can get.

However, if you do want that and any other cost you have to ask for them as an unreasonable behaviour award under CPR 27.14.2(g).

 

There are other CPR's that may apply depending on circumstances but that is a cover all. If you want to claim this you put in a letter to the court for consideration between when you submit your WS and the time of the hearing depending on what the unreasonable bit it.

 

if they fail to attend for example you need it all written out to hand to the judge after you get the decision on the nod.

 

below changes things

your first and most important defence point is they have no locus standi as they have no contract to be there and therefore they cannot perform to a contract anyways.

That should be enough to request a full costs recovery order.

 

In english this means they have no right to sue and if the signage did offer a contract they cant keep their end of the bargain by offering you anything as a consideration.

 

Sorry ericsbrother, but you keep saying my car was at my own home, in a parking space outside my own home. It wasnt. I didnt receive a Parking Charge Notice for parking outside my own home.

 

The Notice To Keeper was sent because the car was parked at another private car park owned by the same HA as I rent my place from.

 

I have now received confirmation from the HA saying that there is no agreement between the HA and UK CPM, so Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC) must be relevant.

 

 

I will also take your advice about the tennat taking piccies etc.

 

 

Thanks

Phillip

 

It might be worthwhile asking Gladstones if they are aware of this lack of agreement between their client and Landowner and as you are now in a position to sue their client for damages under the GDPR how about getting them to just drop the claim and send you a cheque for £250 as per VCS v Phillip and you will consider the matter at an end.

 

That will be something to show the judge if they dont then run away as they may well get a proper ear bashing for abuse of the court process and breaking the solicitors code of conduct ( never applied to Gladdys as they have superpowers).

Edited August 17, 2018 by dx100uk
Merge\spacing

[DarwinUK]

Thanks to everyone.

Im going to get the letter to Gladstones done over the weekend and send it.

 

Ive a sneaky feeling they're not going to back down, maybe expect me to cave in and just pay up, or not attend court and then get judgement against me.

Under the circumstances I have to defend this.

 

The whole setup at the address where UK CPM operate, just smacks of an amateur company trying it on. The whole site doesnt look right, the tenant taking the pics has a financial gain and doesnt feel right, it all just stinks.

 

UK CPM may be thinking that I will panic or not be up to all the running around.

 

I also went back to the site the day after receiving the NTK and took photos of the site layout. Parked my car where it was when the photos were taken, and took photos from the view of the window.

 

Is it worth getting these printed out and take with me to court to show as evidence ?

 

 

Thanks

Phillip

[honeybee13]

It's worth showing us the photos if we haven't seen them.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

Gladddys will try and bluff their way as far as the court door but are unlikely to actually sit in front of a judge and lets their mouths run. Post what you intend to say here first so we can edit if necessary.

 

We dont want you saying anything that damages your defence.

 

Now, for clarity, have you acknowledged the claim yet and how long is it since you got the N1 claim form through the post as time is limited

[DarwinUK]

Hello Everyone.

 

ericsbrother.

15th Aug received the county court claim.

 

Date of issue was 14th Aug.

 

16th Went online to the court site and entered my details as instructed by dx100uk

 

Im trying to upload a pdf of photos as requested by honybee, but see below as to what my defence will be.

 

1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [car reg].

 

2. It is denied that the Claimant has complied with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The alledged parking charge offence took place on 29/04/2017, the Notice To Keeper letter was issued by UK CPM on 16/04/2017 and received by the registered keeper on 20/05/2017. This notice has therefore not been served within the time limits specified by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

 

3A - Sovereign Housing have confirmed they have no contract with UK Car Park Management.

 

4. If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because :

 

A - The signs were not clearly visible,

B - Placed too high up on the posts,

C - Too far away from the entrance to the car park

D - After receiving the Notice To Keeper I visited the car park to take photos. One of the conditions on the sign is "You must park wholly within a marked bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / paved / hatched or landscape areas".

The bays are not clearly marked as which are assigned to tennants and which are visitor bays, and other vehicles were parked on roadways and pavements.

E - UK Car Park Management do not physically attend the car park to manage parking. A designated tennant takes photos of cars, emails them to UK Car Park Management, UK CPM then raise a Notice To Keeper and on payment of the Parking Charge Notice the designated tennant is paid ten pounds.

 

5. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.

It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

Dyson Close.pdf

Edited August 20, 2018 by honeybee13
Reg no removed.

[honeybee13]

Darwin, you've been here longer than I have, you should know better than to leave your car reg in the post above. I've removed it for you, but please help us to keep you anonymous.

 

 

HB

[dx100uk]

you did send CPR too yes?

[DarwinUK]

Darwin, you've been here longer than I have, you should know better than to leave your car reg in the post above. I've removed it for you, but please help us to keep you anonymous.

 

 

HB

 

 

Sorry thought I had.