DEL backdoor CCJ for Surrey County Council car park??

[ericsbrother]

well, they are not BPA members so they shouldnt be applying for keeper details from the DVLA.

 

They use a PO box as an address so would need to see the notice to keeper to see if that is the same.

 

if it is then no liability as thya havent said who the creditor is in the prescribed manner.

 

I would be letting the council know that their agents have obtained your keeper details unlawfully and you will be suing them for this breach of the DPA as they are vicariously liable for the actions of their pet bandits.

 

Ideally get an image of the entrance to this car park from the public highway because this sign is obviously stuck on a wall somewhere and may not be applicable (another argument to follow)

[shilu28]

..

Entrance.pdf

[shilu28]

Thank you for your reply EB.

 

They got my details from the car rental company.

[ericsbrother]

You keep witholding information from us that is crucial and it is getting to be annoying.

we cant help you if we dont know everything.

 

then we need the dates that the car rental co got the NTK and when you received it.

 

Look,

you have to understand,

you need to use every scrap of information in your defence so you need to know about the contract between DEL and the landowner

 

send a CPR 31.14 request to them for sight of their contract between themselves and the landowner that assigns the authority to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name ( the wording is important not just ask for sight of contract)

 

and also for sight of the planning permission for their signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

 

Get this sent asap, there are pleny of template CPR requests on other threads that mention court so use one by all means as long as you get the above included.

 

OK as for site, no signage at entrance.

So where EXACTLY is the land?

Street and postcode.

 

argument about whether it is private land will have to be decided on soon.

Reason is that land owned by local council or govt dept isnt private land so probably no ability of parking co to enforce contract as they have no right to due to lack of what is called performance of the contract.

Ie, signage may offer aq contract but they cant deliver anything under consideration.

 

Bit like me selling you the Eiffel tower, we can agree a price but I an not in a position to hand it over so cant force you to pay me for it

[shilu28]

Sorry EB, I am not withholding information intentionally.

I really appreciate your help and thank you very much.

Car rental sent the notice on the 1st April 2016. I found on the 26th April that there was a charge from the car rental on my card which I hadn't authorised. On the 26th April 2016, car rental sent me a copy of NTK. I paid the GBP35 to the car rental company straight away (26th April) however, it was not until the 7th Dec 2016 (after received the DEL'S solicitor's and debt collectors letters, that I found out from the car rental company that the amount paid was only for their admin charge for them and not for the PCN.

The car park:

Penrhyn Road

Kingston upon Thames

Surrey

KT1 2DW

[shilu28]

One more item, I never received POC.

As mentioned previously, the only things I received are letters from Gladys and their debt collection and information from Northampton after I filed the set aside.

[ericsbrother]

OK,

now something you haven't told is where do you live.

i know that you rent out an address that you used to hire the car and that you are not currently in the UK so where do you live.

 

Presume an EU address or you wouldn't have got anywhere with N244.

What arrangement do you have with getting post sent to where you reside.

 

How temporary is this address,

have you changed your details with the DVLA for example,

or do you hold a foreign driver's licence as well.

 

I am trying to understand the chain of events as you used your old residence address for the car rental. Did you live there at the time?

 

with the land you parked on,

it is presumably Surrey CC land

and as far as I can ascertain that means it isn't private land but public

 

so outside the remit of the POFA and would probably fail the performance requirements for a contract as already outlined.

 

However, I cant find any case law precedent that will nail this down.

Also, I note that there are other parking signs visible on google street view.

 

We would need to have decent pictures of these as well as the sign you have already posted up.

As they are different, which one applied to where you were?

[shilu28]

Technically, UK address is still my official (on driver's license, bank, credit card, hire car etc). I pay UK personal and corporate tax. DVLA address is always UK address. Do not hold foreign license. However, I am a registered resident of Amsterdam.

Currently, living in Amsterdam. It is as temporary until my next job where it may be.

Tenants/estate agents usually forward the mail to me.

It is Surrey County Hall car park. There only 2 signs in the whole car. The other signs are for street parking. The sign in the photo is (same sign a few metres further down) is the only one that applies to this car park.

[shilu28]

CPR sent yesterday. Addressed to both, solicitors and parking shark.

[ericsbrother]

On google

I can see a sign that mentions disabled parking that appears to be to the right side of the entrance.

 

Regarding address

I am trying to ascertain how your post gets to you and how often,

we are trying to work out if DEL sent out their letters in the prescribed time,

 

 

if you really didnt get them at all it will be worth challenging whether they have followed heo protocols because if they cannot prove they did then they have lost their chance to claim form you (or the hire co)

 

Technically, UK address is still my official (on driver's license, bank, credit card, hire car etc). I pay UK personal and corporate tax. DVLA address is always UK address. Do not hold foreign license. However, I am a registered resident of Amsterdam.

Currently, living in Amsterdam. It is as temporary until my next job where it may be.

Tenants/estate agents usually forward the mail to me.

It is Surrey County Hall car park. There only 2 signs in the whole car. The other signs are for street parking. The sign in the photo is (same sign a few metres further down) is the only one that applies to this car park.

[shilu28]

As far I could see, there were no others.

And I didn't see any specific bays for disabled.

I know for sure that on the street there are signs for disable parking.

 

I get my post by regular mail forwarded to me,

sometimes my tenant will scan and email important or time sensitive letters to me

or bank/credit statements wait for my arrival for the site inspection

or any maintenance/repairs that needs to be done.

 

 

Quite often, I am back in England for family/friends visits and i pick up my post then.

 

Honestly, I didn't receive a single letter from DEL or Northampton (transfer of proceedings came in Dec).

If I had then I would have resolved this matter earlier and not waited until Nov/Dec to start the process to find out what the car hire charged me for.

 

Here is quote from DEL:

"Our records show that our recorded delivery letter to you 31-5-16,

advising of possible legal action wasn’t collected from the Royal Mail."

[ericsbrother]

DEL may well have enjoyed their letter being sent back to them as they would then know that you werent in a position to defend.

 

So one of your reasons for set-aside will that you didnt receive anything from them on this matter

and for your defence you put it to strict proof that they sent things when they said they did by way of copies of proof of postings,

franking machine record or whatever.

 

 

wont win you anything in itself but will help build a weight of evidence for balance of probabilities.

[shilu28]

When I asked DEL for confirmation of the recorded delivery that was returned back to them, their reply:

"As already acknowledged the Recorded Delivery letter was not signed for, nor was it called for."

[ericsbrother]

of no relevance

[shilu28]

Many thanks for your feedback EB.

Is the signage still my best way to defend my case?

[ericsbrother]

it is part of it,

your defence is that no contract was offered, accepted and performed to.

 

They dont have the right to claim anything because it isnt private land and should be covered by a traffic order being public land.

 

That means they may have a sign that says something but they cant deliver their side of the bargain.

 

The LL can sue for trespass as it is public land,

they can have you chucked off or fine you if you breach some byelaw but that is about it.

[shilu28]

Many thanks for your reply EB.

Is there any other you need?

I would like to start to structure and put my defence together.

[dx100uk]

already done in post 166

[shilu28]

Thanks dx100UK.

 

So to summarise:

 

Never received any correspondence from the claimant or the claim form. First found out about the default judgement when I received letters from claimant's solicitor and their debt collector.

 

1. Contract with the Landowner is not Compliant with the BPA code of Practice and No Legal Status to Offer Parking or Enforce Charges

 

2. Unclear, Inadequate and Non-Compliant Signage

 

3. No Contract with the Driver

 

4. No Breach of Contract and No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss

 

Am I missing anything else?

[ericsbrother]

you have got these points wrong,

1. The notices and the protocols used are not compliant with the BPA's CoP nor the POFA (read the parking pranksters recent blog about this point and pick out the relevant phrases)

 

2. As land public land and thus subject to the Road Traffic Act no contract exists between the plaintiff and the defendant, the plaintiff was never in a positionto perform to to the contract supposedly offered by their signage at the site.

 

3 The amount claimed by the plaintiff is an unenforceable penalty as per Dunlop v The New Garage and Motor Co 1914 and is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. There is no commercial justifcation for the charge as per PE v Beavis

 

4 No traffic order exists to prevent anyone parking.

[shilu28]

Oh dear, I am sorry EB however, thank you very much for correcting me. Really appreciate it.

[shilu28]

After some more digging around and reading parking pranksters blog, I have found the following:

 

1) PCN sent to car hire on the 1st April. It states that the sum payable is GBP70 however if paid within 14 days of this notice then the sum is GBP35.

 

2) Care hire sent me a letter on the 19th April (This is 19 days after they received NTK) by snail mail stating the charge dates etc. This meant that I had no chance to pay the reduced amount.

[shilu28]

DEL and Galdys has ignored my CPR request. Please advice my next step.

[ericsbrother]

Doesnt matter one bit, you havent got the set-aside yet, they will have shot themselves in the foot then.

read the POFA regaring hire cars. The parking co has a llimited time to write to driver once hire co tell them who it was. You can point out that no such letter was received and put it to strict proof that they sent it. A copy of the postage receipt will do.

[shilu28]

Thank you for that EB.

Does signing the statement of liability acknowledging the responsibility for any PCN during the rental period allow the car hire company to pass on my contact details to the parking company?