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ES Parking/Gladstone claimforn - PCN Spinningfields Manchester

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Google Earth is particularly good for this type of investigation as it shows how the area has evolved.

 

It does look as though there has been extensive development over that short length of road where it narrows.

The warning signs are visible and include the No Stopping warning.

 

As it is only a small part of the road that has been privatised by the sale of the land

you must ask the local Highway Authority (not the national one) whether they extinguighed the highway rights as part of the sale.

 

Local authorties often sell large parcels of land for development which includes the public highway but they will usually extinguish the rights when they do so.

 

In this case they should have provided an alternative route as it effectively means that the road is closed.

If it remains a public highway they there is no case to answer so the key question must be the identity of the landowner.

You have asked this question and failed to get an answer.

 

Even if the highway was extinguished legally then there should be signs to indicate that it is now private land with no right of way.

 

Only where there is no right of way can the landowner restrict behaviour in the way in which they have claimed.

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Thanks BeamEngine for having a look.

 

I was hoping to phone the council and ask them, but apparently you have to either go to the council offices and view the street documents for free, or pay £134 for them to send you copies.Unfortunately we don't live where this happened, and although its within driving distance (45 minutes away), that's at least a 1hr 30 minute round trip to find out if its a private road, but perhaps I will have to do it anyway.

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Also note that they say contact all sorts of people other than those who know about parking

 

As an adviser for Citizens Advice

I would tend to agree with you unless they have someone who takes an interest in the activities of such companies who are only interested in extorting money.

 

I have just made a claim for distress caused by their inability to comply with DVLA's requirements.

Ginger

 

As you are defending the claim you should point out that you have asked for the landowner's details and you should question their right to claim that setting down is parking,

 

This would be a defence if it remains the public highway.

 

You should have time before the hearing to make a Freedom of Information request to the council highways about whether the rights of way were extinguished and when.

 

If you can discover the landowner you could also ask them, it looks as though a whole strip was developed with that part of the road intended as a pedestrian area to connect the two parts.

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You need to get a cpr31:14 running to Gladstone time is ticking


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Search the Manchester City Council online planning applications.

 

There is a Spinningfields masterplan which shows the development of the 22 acre site.

 

As far as I can see it does not displace the road system but the are is going to be a boulevard with what looks like a raised section for pedestrians and a ramp for cars.

 

I suspect that the developers have acquired the rights to maintain that section of the road which means that it is no longer maintained by highways.

 

An interesting legal point as to whether it remains a public highway.

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You need to get a cpr31:14 running to Gladstone time is ticking

 

Just to be clear, do you mean requesting the details of the road being private or public, or for the details of the landowner DX100?

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you can only request details that are mentioned or intimated in their poc.

 

is that all they wrote just the one line?


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As an adviser for Citizens Advice

I would tend to agree with you unless they have someone who takes an interest in the activities of such companies who are only interested in extorting money.

 

I have just made a claim for distress caused by their inability to comply with DVLA's requirements.

Ginger

 

As you are defending the claim you should point out that you have asked for the landowner's details and you should question their right to claim that setting down is parking,

 

This would be a defence if it remains the public highway.

 

You should have time before the hearing to make a Freedom of Information request to the council highways about whether the rights of way were extinguished and when.

 

If you can discover the landowner you could also ask them, it looks as though a whole strip was developed with that part of the road intended as a pedestrian area to connect the two parts.

 

Having spoken to about 4 different people on the phone

I managed to speak to someone in the Highways department,

and have emailed him a request, under Freedom of information act, asking for the status of the road.

 

 

Thanks for your advice :)

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you can only request details that are mentioned or intimated in their poc.

 

 

is that all they wrote just the one line?

 

The POC only says

"The claimant claims the sum of £152.30 for Parking Charges and indemnity costs if applicable including £2.30 interest..."

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wow that's pretty crass.

 

pers id take the mickey then too.

 

in a cpr 31:14 ask them to produce

 

copy of contract with the land owners that allows them to bring court claims in their own right

planning permission from the council for their signs

 

etc etc stuff like that

 

dx


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The latest revision to the masterplan dated 2014 states

: "Allied London, the Council’s

development partners in the scheme"

 

It would appear from this that Allied London are the landowners and are working with the council to implement the development.

 

That may explain the reluctance of the council to provide information on the status of the highway.

 

Try phoning Allied London and asking them if they have a contract with ES Parking, it will be a lot quicker than an FOI request!

 

You might also consider a counterclaim against ES Parking for distress caused by their pursuit of this invoice.

 

If their claim is thrown out this would demonstrate that ES Parking did not have reasonable cause to obtain your personal details from DVLA and are therefore in breach of the Data Protection Act. How about £250 compensation for all of this?

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If I have interpreted the law correctly a highway can only be extinguished by the application of the council to a Magistrates Court.

 

Before they can do that they must advertise in the London Gazette.

 

I can find only two notices relating to Gartside Street in the London gazette in 2001 and 2002

 

. There relate to stopping up portions of the street on a temporary basis to allow building work.

 

It would appear that the whole of the remains a public highway so ES Parking have no cause of action unless they have been authorised by the highway authority.

 

What exactly do the signs say?

 

Given your circumstances you might even cite the Vento v South Yorkshire Police and claim £750 compensation for the distress which was set by the Court of Appeal as the starting point.

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Beam

 

, I was under the impression that the Highway Authority can't authorize a private parking company to do anything on a public highway, as it comes under statutory jurisdiction. IIRC, a public highway is not "relevant land" under POFA2012, so there can be no contract to breach.

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If I have interpreted the law correctly a highway can only be extinguished by the application of the council to a Magistrates Court. Before they can do that they must advertise in the London Gazette. I can find only two notices relating to Gartside Street in the London gazette in 2001 and 2002. There relate to stopping up portions of the street on a temporary basis to allow building work.

It would appear that the whole of the remains a public highway so ES Parking have no cause of action unless they have been authorised by the highway authority. What exactly do the signs say?

Given your circumstances you might even cite the Vento v South Yorkshire Police and claim £750 compensation for the distress which was set by the Court of Appeal as the starting point.

 

Thanks Beam Engine, you've done a lot of research, I really appreciate it.

 

Post 17 on this thread has a picture of the sign that is up, its picture 4 on the download.

If they do throw this out before small claims I will be writing to DVLA, Manchester City Council etc and may consider a claim.

 

I can't begin to count the number of hours of faffing about this has been, and thats not even including all the help I've received on here.

 

The latest revision to the masterplan dated 2014 states: "Allied London, the Council’s

development partners in the scheme"

It would appear from this that Allied London are the landowners and are working with the council to implement the development. That may explain the reluctance of the council to provide information on the status of the highway.

Try phoning Allied London and asking them if they have a contract with ES Parking, it will be a lot quicker than an FOI request!

You might also consider a counterclaim against ES Parking for distress caused by their pursuit of this invoice. If their claim is thrown out this would demonstrate that ES Parking did not have reasonable cause to obtain your personal details from DVLA and are therefore in breach of the Data Protection Act. How about £250 compensation for all of this?

 

I've just tried phoning Allied Londons Manchester HQ, but the number is out of action,

and so then I phoned the London offices, but just got an answer phone message,

so unlikely I'll hear back from them before Monday now.

 

 

I'll write up a CPR31:14 later and get it sent out recorded delivery tomorrow asking for unredacted contract with landowner, copy of the documents which prove extinguishment of the public highway, and planning permission for their signs.

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You need to get a cpr31:14 running to Gladstone time is ticking

Surely Part 31 does not apply to the small claims track.

Scope of this Part

31.1

(1) This Part sets out rules about the disclosure and inspection of documents.

(2) This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track.

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What do people think about this letter, I'll post out to Gladstone tomorrow recorded delivery.

 

Dear Sir OR Madam

 

Re: ES Parking vs XXXXXXXXXXX

Claim Number: XXXXXXX

 

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 5th August 2016 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court, in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents pertaining to the claim being made.

 

1. A contemporaneous and unredacted copy of ES Parkings contract with the landholder that demonstrates that they have authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in their own name.

 

2. A copy of the extinguishment order submitted to the Magistrates Court, and documentation proving extinguishment of the public highway on Gartside Street.

 

3.A copy of the planning permission documents issued by the council for the parking signs in use.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

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Surely Part 31 does not apply to the small claims track.

Scope of this Part

31.1

(1) This Part sets out rules about the disclosure and inspection of documents.

(2) This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track.

 

Hmm, didn't read that bit. Dx100?

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It does apply as no track is yet selected


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If I have interpreted the law correctly a highway can only be extinguished by the application of the council to a Magistrates Court.

Before they can do that they must advertise in the London Gazette.

 

The Gazette search facility is most confusing, tonight I could only find entries for 2004/5 but this one is of interest

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-57536-125

 

It is an application to stop up part of the road in about the right area following the Planning consent given in 2002.

 

 

In effect stopping up the road because it was no longer necessary is often used to restrict access to and from residential areas.

 

 

Its effect would be to allow the land to revert to use by its owner without the need to extinguish the highway. Sneaky!

 

I can't find the relevant application in the Manchester archives but that is even more difficult to search than the Gazette. I suspect that this is what they will try to rely on in court.

 

Their problem, and I hope they are watching, is that Gartside remains a through route as it has a car park in the middle.

 

 

Quite how that fits in with the access no longer being necessary I would be interested to know.

Of course there may be later applications which may turn up.

 

I believe that your best defence would be to claim that the notices were not readable from your car so you had to stop to read them only to discover that you would be charged for stopping.

 

 

You should also challenge them on the claim that it was a parking charge and request evidence that your vehicle was parked especially as there does not appear to be a warning about parking charges.

 

It does apply as no track is yet selected

Does this not mean that the MCOL claimant will fail to respond until the track is allocated and the date for filing the defence has passed?

Would a judge not simply wait until the track is allocated before making an order for disclosure?

Defendants are unlikely to opt to move away form the small claims track because of the risk of costs.

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Beam Enginer, I found a Manchester Council Planning and Highways committee May 2014 document which refers to Gartside St as "the adopted

highway on Gartside Street", which suggests its run by the council, not the landowner.

 

Does this not mean that the MCOL claimant will fail to respond until the track is allocated and the date for filing the defence has passed?

Would a judge not simply wait until the track is allocated before making an order for disclosure?

Defendants are unlikely to opt to move away form the small claims track because of the risk of costs.

 

If I request these documents under 31:14 would this exempt them from being used in a small claims track?

 

 

Or as Beamengine suggests would this mean it wouldn't be considered small claims anymore once these are requested??

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not due till/by Friday 2nd by 4pm

you can do it online too

plenty of time to read around and for others to help

dx

My online Citizens Adviceguide says that the AOS must be served within 14 days and the defence 14 days after thatand not 28. Have they got it wrong?

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you forgot the 5 days deemed service

5+14=19 date of aos limit+14 date of def filing=33 days total

 

if using mcol online, you must file by 4pm Friday if day 33 falls at a w/end

 

take a look in the financial legal section.

 

33 day as I explained count one is the date of the claimform top right


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If I request these documents under 31:14 would this exempt them from being used in a small claims track? Or as Beamengine suggests would this mean it wouldn't be considered small claims anymore once these are requested??

 

 

the case at the point has not been allocated to any track

its a speculative claim until alloacated

cpr 31:14 applies

and is the only tool you can use in these cases to request sight of documents they intend to rely upon.


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