bristow & sutor Bristow and Sutor (Council Tax) threatened ARREST if not pay NOW...

[Bailiff Advice]

Thank You for Your kind words. We have been in the morning and the good news are that the lady (from Money Advice Service) called to B&S and explained our situation and they had to agree with no choice that we will be paying them £5 per week. This is funny how easy that was for her. Because people with power can do everything and I as a "grey mass" contacted B&S so many times to reduce the monthly payment and they never accept that. It just shows that without power/uniforms/labels, etc can do EVERYTHING. I'm sorry for blaming because this is quite good news as she reduced our payment from £200 to £20 monthly, and I am happy with that but it's just low mood, which doesn't allow me to accept certain things.

 

But what next? We feel mentally damaged by this guy (EA), so I must live with that with knowledge that he will continue to do these terrible things to other people and families?

 

Thank you so much for keeping the forum updated and I am delighted to hear that a significantly reduced payment arrangement has now been accepted.

 

As I had said a while ago, the error that you made was in allowing the bailiff into your home in the first place. You did not know your rights and cannot be blamed for this. However, being brutally honest here......your first mistake was that you had not responded to the initial letter from Bristol & Sutor (Notice of Enforcement). This notice would have been sent to you between two and three weeks before the personal visit. At that time the bailiff fees would have been just £75.

 

On receipt of the Notice of Enforcement a payment proposal can be set up as long as it is within the 'compliance stage' (this is period outlined in the notice). By entering into a payment proposal you would have avoided a personal visit (and with it the fees rising by £235). Also, during the compliance stage any vulnerability (health and financial) should have been outlined to Bristow & Sutor.

 

If a payment proposal is not set up, then the account is referred to a bailiff and this is where a further problem arises in that the purpose of his visit, is to 'take control of goods' (hence the name of the regulations; The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013).

 

In answer to your last question (what to do next). I appreciate that the personal visit has had a serous affect on your heath but the goods news is that you are now in a position of being able to repay the debt at a more affordable rate of £20 per month. This should take pressure off your already dire financial position. You have serious health problem and as difficult as it may be, I would suggest that you try to put this experience behind you.

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank you so much for keeping the forum updated and I am delighted to hear that a significantly reduced payment arrangement has now been accepted.

 

As I had said a while ago, the error that you made was in allowing the bailiff into your home in the first place. You did not know your rights and cannot be blamed for this. However, being brutally honest here......your first mistake was that you had not responded to the initial letter from Bristol & Sutor (Notice of Enforcement). This notice would have been sent to you between two and three weeks before the personal visit. At that time the bailiff fees would have been just £75.

 

On receipt of the Notice of Enforcement a payment proposal can be set up as long as it is within the 'compliance stage' (this is period outlined in the notice). By entering into a payment proposal you would have avoided a personal visit (and with it the fees rising by £235). Also, during the compliance stage any vulnerability (health and financial) should have been outlined to Bristow & Sutor.

 

If a payment proposal is not set up, then the account is referred to a bailiff and this is where a further problem arises in that the purpose of his visit, is to 'take control of goods' (hence the name of the regulations; The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013).

 

In answer to your last question (what to do next). I appreciate that the personal visit has had a serous affect on your heath but the goods news is that you are now in a position of being able to repay the debt at a more affordable rate of £20 per month. This should take pressure off your already dire financial position. Your have serious health problem and as difficult as it may be, I would suggest that you try to put this experience behind you.

 

Thought there was now a new process for EA complaints, which is less likely to incur costs as the previous form 4 system ?

 

If the OP wants to pursue a complaint, they can do so. They should start by making official complaints to the CEO of the council authority, with a copy sent to the MD or CEO of B&S. This should detail what happened and what they expect to resolve the complaint. If they are then not satisfied, they can make a complaint via the courts using the system available.

 

LGO site link about complaints

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/publications/fact-sheets/complaints-about-bailiffs/

[Bailiff Advice]

Thought there was now a new process for EA complaints, which is less likely to incur costs as the previous form 4 system ?

 

The 'new' regime for making a complaint to the court about a bailiff is an EAC2 Complaint. In very serious cases of bad behaviour this route can indeed be pursued but can be risky given that the regulations (in this case; Part 84.20 of the Civil Procedure Rules) specifically provide that the complianant (the debtor) can be ordered to pay the local authorities or bailiffs legal costs if the court consider that the complaint does not disclose any reasonable grounds for considering that the bailiff is not a 'fit person' to hold a certificate.

 

Sadly there have been too many adverse costs orders against debtors recently for me to suggest this route.

[jmills]

Thank you so much for keeping the forum updated and I am delighted to hear that a significantly reduced payment arrangement has now been accepted.

 

As I had said a while ago, the error that you made was in allowing the bailiff into your home in the first place. You did not know your rights and cannot be blamed for this. However, being brutally honest here......your first mistake was that you had not responded to the initial letter from Bristol & Sutor (Notice of Enforcement). This notice would have been sent to you between two and three weeks before the personal visit. At that time the bailiff fees would have been just £75.

 

On receipt of the Notice of Enforcement a payment proposal can be set up as long as it is within the 'compliance stage' (this is period outlined in the notice). By entering into a payment proposal you would have avoided a personal visit (and with it the fees rising by £235). Also, during the compliance stage any vulnerability (health and financial) should have been outlined to Bristow & Sutor.

 

If a payment proposal is not set up, then the account is referred to a bailiff and this is where a further problem arises in that the purpose of his visit, is to 'take control of goods' (hence the name of the regulations; The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013).

 

In answer to your last question (what to do next). I appreciate that the personal visit has had a serous affect on your heath but the goods news is that you are now in a position of being able to repay the debt at a more affordable rate of £20 per month. This should take pressure off your already dire financial position. You have serious health problem and as difficult as it may be, I would suggest that you try to put this experience behind you.

 

Thank You for Your honesty. I am happy with paying £5 every week but thinking about the future what if the benefits stop very soon and we still be without work? We live on the Island where work i more likely to find on summer season. And I just have black thoughts. I obviously know that the only person, who can find the work is my partner because You have no idea how much times I applied and where I have been from last few months and people not even answer me, they just leave me without any answer, not even negative. So, what then if we will stay with nothing? JSA is only for 6 months and then it just stops. As I good understand as long as we will be paying for B&S its ok but if we stop, then EA come back for listed goods yes? And it will never stop until we pay all sum, is that right?

The problem is that I dont agree with the listed goods he made and in CAB they said he was not allowed to list some of them. For example the microwave is old but still working but the dining table is really moving and damaged and can just drop in 1 moment. On the agreement it says that if we will dispose or remove listed goods then imprisonment will occur. I would like to show this document here as I did photo but have no idea how, I thought it will be easy just upload from this laptop but I cant. So, if something from listed goods will drop, stop working or I dont know what else, we have to keep in for example in parts? I mean the dining table mainly because its look like it will broke soon. So we cant throw it away, we have to keep parts? Otherwise we are going to the prison? And the fact that he listed dining table with chairs and microwave, which is the only 1 thing to heat up food is ok?? These things shouldt be listed and I dont just understand how it works...

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank You for Your honesty. I am happy with paying £5 every week but thinking about the future what if the benefits stop very soon and we still be without work? We live on the Island where work i more likely to find on summer season. And I just have black thoughts. I obviously know that the only person, who can find the work is my partner because You have no idea how much times I applied and where I have been from last few months and people not even answer me, they just leave me without any answer, not even negative. So, what then if we will stay with nothing? JSA is only for 6 months and then it just stops. As I good understand as long as we will be paying for B&S its ok but if we stop, then EA come back for listed goods yes? And it will never stop until we pay all sum, is that right?

The problem is that I dont agree with the listed goods he made and in CAB they said he was not allowed to list some of them. For example the microwave is old but still working but the dining table is really moving and damaged and can just drop in 1 moment. On the agreement it says that if we will dispose or remove listed goods then imprisonment will occur. I would like to show this document here as I did photo but have no idea how, I thought it will be easy just upload from this laptop but I cant. So, if something from listed goods will drop, stop working or I dont know what else, we have to keep in for example in parts? I mean the dining table mainly because its look like it will broke soon. So we cant throw it away, we have to keep parts? Otherwise we are going to the prison? And the fact that he listed dining table with chairs and microwave, which is the only 1 thing to heat up food is ok?? These things shouldt be listed and I dont just understand how it works...

 

They cannot list things like dining tables and microwaves or other important things that allow you to live.

 

You should send a complaint letter to the CEO of the council, as the EA has failed to do their job properly and needs to be re trained by B&S.

 

The control list you have signed is not likely to be valid, if they have included items which they should not have or would not be enough to cover the council tax liability. The council can cancel the control of goods and look at your complaint. You can go to the Local Government Ombudsman,

[jmills]

They cannot list things like dining tables and microwaves or other important things that allow you to live.

 

You should send a complaint letter to the CEO of the council, as the EA has failed to do their job properly and needs to be re trained by B&S.

 

The control list you have signed is not likely to be valid, if they have included items which they should not have or would not be enough to cover the council tax liability. The council can cancel the control of goods and look at your complaint. You can go to the Local Government Ombudsman,

 

Thanks but the Bailiff Advice here said that its not worth to do complaint if I good understood?

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks but the Bailiff Advice here said that its not worth to do complaint if I good understood?

They have said it is not worth taking it to court as a complaint due to possible costs and that complaining to B&S might be frustrating, as they might just see it as your word against the EA's word.

 

The list of items taken under control appears to contain items that should not have been included, plus you have complaints about the behaviour of the EA.

 

If you don't want to bother complaining that is your choice. But remember that if you made a payment late, the EA might well come back again. If you register a complaint with the council CEO about this and threaten to involve the LGO, you may well be in a better position. The control of goods may be released and the council may deal directly, with some of the EA's fees refunded.

[brassnecked]

If microwave is only means of heating food then it cannot and should not be listed. A Formal Complaint to CEO, and Elected Leader stating the bad behaviour, and the inclusion on the Controlled Goods Order of exempt and potentially exempt items possibly rendering it null and void.

 

If the list contains goods that won't cover the fees and a portion of the debt, as in all listed goods excluding microwave worth £50 tops, that again is something to include in a Formal Complaint.

 

This looks like a case where nulla bona might have applied, or has nulla bona died with the old Regulations?

[jmills]

They have said it is not worth taking it to court as a complaint due to possible costs and that complaining to B&S might be frustrating, as they might just see it as your word against the EA's word.

 

The list of items taken under control appears to contain items that should not have been included, plus you have complaints about the behaviour of the EA.

 

If you don't want to bother complaining that is your choice. But remember that if you made a payment late, the EA might well come back again. If you register a complaint with the council CEO about this and threaten to involve the LGO, you may well be in a better position. The control of goods may be released and the council may deal directly, with some of the EA's fees refunded.

 

Oh I understand then, thank You. Can I find somewhere a template how to do an official complain? And how I need to send it? Via post, e-mail? I however still dont understand why we should have court costs? If Council took our case to the court, then we pay the costs simply, so why if its opposite we have to pay? And its against only the 1 person. Maybe I just not live in real world but there is no logic to me.

 

I will write the complain for sure because the listed goods are unfair and in the future I dont wanna have a problem with that...

[jmills]

If microwave is only meas of heating food then it cannot and should not be listed. A Formal Complaint to CEO, and Elected Leader stating the bad behaviour, and the inclusion on the Controlled Goods Order of exempt and potentially exempt items possibly rendering it null and void.

 

If the list contains goods that won't cover the fees and a portion of the debt, as in all listed goods excluding microwave worth £50 tops, that again is something to include in a Formal Complaint.

 

This looks like a case where nulla bona might have applied, or has nulla bona died with the old Regulations?

 

I know it cannot be listed as well as dining table with chairs, lol

But we said that in CAB and of course they agreed but nothing else, no advice what we can do about it. I just se I can find the answer on this helpful forum...I don't really know how much is it worth, I would put the picture of listed goods here as I have it in this laptop but don't know how? So You would see and maybe estimate this but the problem is that these things are really old, they from car boot taken by our friend 2 years ago and brought to us.

I don't have idea what does mean "nulla bona"

[brassnecked]

nulla bona is where the EA returns the LO to the council as insufficient goods to take control of, as in there is no value in anything, so a sale would not cover even a fraction of the debt.

 

As to a template a heading of FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

addressed to the Councilk CEO and Elected Leader

indicating how the Busted & Stupid EA has listed exempt goods, goods wouldn't even cover say 5% of debt if taken and sold etc.

 

There is no risk for you to submit a Formal Complaint, and I feel you should do whilst still paying what was agreed.

[lookinforinfo]

Follow the advice from the above people.

 

 

Complain to the CEO [both by email and letter if you can or just email if you can't ]that you are making a formal complaint as Brass Necked has already said.

I would send a copy of that letter to the Financial Ombudsman also

- [email protected]-marking it "for information only".

 

 

Mention how frightened you both were at being threatened with jail

especially as both of you have illnesses that would seriously affect the other one were either of you have to go to jail.

 

 

You could add that you are not British and are not yet fully aware of the all the Laws and practices of this Country

however you have now found out that as you have always been willing to pay your Council tax

that jail was never an option that a Court would allow.

 

 

Point out that the bailiff is the agent of the Council and they are responsible for their actions

so you would ask that the CEO checks with the bailiff company that all the bailiffs are aware that they have to observe the law

and know that they cannot threaten people with jail when they know there is no realistic chance of that happening.

 

 

Also the bailiff listed the dining table, chairs and a microwave which he has taken into control.

The microwave is the only form of cooking that you have so cannot be listed as it is exempt from seizure as are the dining table and chairs.

In fact everything listed would not add up to a fraction of the amount of Council tax owed if sold at auction.

 

 

So it is hard to imagine why the bailiff would have put us through all this when he could see how we were living

and it has been confirmed by the fact that the Money Advice Service talked to either your Council or the Bailiffs

and a repayment of £5 per week has been agreed.

 

 

It also calls into question whether the Council should have passed us over to bailiffs in the first place.

Especially as now at £5 per week it will take you 3 months j ust to pay the £75 to the bailiffs before you can even begin to repay the Council

 

 

Tell them that you have sent a copy of the letter to the Financial Ombudsman

so that they can observe how you react to this complaint.

 

 

Repeat that you were mentally damaged by the visit and ask if you can have some assurance that that bailiff will not call on you again.

 

On the other subject you asked about

-Court costs-

you should understand that when taking bailifs to court it is not heard in a small claims court

and they will use the best lawyers [ie most expensive] to help win their case.

 

 

So if you should lose your claim you would be responsible to pay your own costs plus those of the bailiff which could amount to thousands of pounds.

By writing emails to the CEO and the Ombudsman they will cost you nothing and perhaps you might get some peace of mind from their replies.

[brassnecked]

Excellent points from lookedinforinfo, Formal Complaint route good option to highlight the stress the councils agent Bristow & Sutor (aka Bristols & Hooters, Busted & Stupid due to their often unlawful actions) especially the empty threat of police coming to drag you off to jail That of itself is enough to ground the complaint, especially if it was apparent that English is not your first language.

[unclebulgaria67]

Why the financial ombudsman ? Do they deal with council or enforcement complaints ? Thought it was the local government ombudsman and you can't get them involved, until you have given tbe council chance to deal the complaint.

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for that Uncle Bulgaria. These Ombudsmen are getting like buses.

 

J.Mills I am so sorry I gave you the wrong ombudsman to contact. The one you want is

 

The Local Government Ombudsman

PO Box 4771

Coventry CV4 0EH

 

 

They do not have an email contact to begin with but you can go to their website -

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/contactus

 

and fill out their complaint form. Please state at the moment this is for information only.