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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Order for Sale


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Could anyone please give me some advice on the process for an Order for Sale on a property.

 

 

I have today just had the hearing regarding the interim charging order I had against a debtors property

and thankfully the judge has made the order 'final'.

 

 

As the debtor never attended court or replied to the order I have no option other then to pursue the Order for Sale

and would like to know how I go about that,

 

 

what's involved and what action/steps I need to now take.

 

 

thanks in advance for any help or advice given

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https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part73/pd_part73

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/charging-orders/#what_happens_if_there%27s_an_order_for_sale

 

If you have a read of the CAB link above, it gives you some idea of what you need to do. If I understand this correctly, you have a final charging order. You now have to apply for the Order of Sale - which then gives the judgment debtor 28 days to either pay or leave the property. If they don't do either, then you will need to apply for a Warrant of possession.

 

Scroll down the page until you reach the heading Final Charging order, in that text you will see

 

If a final charging order is made, your creditor can either wait until you sell your property or apply to the court for an order for sale. They must apply for an order for sale if they want you to sell your property straight away.

 

 

You need to click on "order for sale" and it then provides the following ..

 

What if the court makes an order for sale

 

If the order for sale is made and not suspended, you will normally be given 28 days to pay the debt or leave the property. If you don't pay the debt or leave the property within 28 days, your creditor can apply for an order to force you to leave the property. This is called a warrant of possession.

 

 

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Could anyone please give me some advice on the process for an Order for Sale on a property.

 

 

I have today just had the hearing regarding the interim charging order I had against a debtors property

and thankfully the judge has made the order 'final'.

 

 

As the debtor never attended court or replied to the order I have no option other then to pursue the Order for Sale

and would like to know how I go about that,

 

 

what's involved and what action/steps I need to now take.

 

 

thanks in advance for any help or advice given

 

Hi,

 

Is the debtors house the family home? Are there children living there? If there are you're very unlikely to get the Order for Sale.

 

Applying for an Order for Sale is quite complicated and will cost you around a grand upfront in Court fees.

 

Even if you get the OFS you'll then need to apply for a possession order and then market and sell etc the house and pay solicitors and estate agents fees.

 

Depending on the value of the debt it may not be worth it.

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May be easier and cheaper and successful to try Bailiff/Attachment of Earnings or Third Party Debt Order

 

Andy

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The charging order is for the sum of £3553 and its is against a rental property that the Debtor owns solely himself. I did try using HCEO's to recover the debt prior to the charging order but he was either never in or didn't answer the door when they called and so they were unsuccessful as he never responded to any of their letters or phone calls. The debtor is also self employed so a Attachment of Earning wouldn't be of any use.

 

 

A grand upfront for an order for sale. wow, I wasn't expecting it to be that much. Do I have any other options?

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Yes post #5 above yours

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for you reply Andy, although I'm not sure how any of those options could work. As I said, he is self employed so an Attachment of Earnings is of no use, I already had HCEO's chasing him for nearly 2 months and they had no joy and during a previous Order for Questioning he supplied details of his bank accounts showing he didn't have enough to cover then debt and I don't know how he is being paid (probably cash) by the tenants in the property I have the charging order against.

 

 

Could you breakdown/explain where the cost of a grand for the Order for sale comes from, is there a standard charge, is it worked out on the debt or the cost of the property?

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part 8 claim (see cpr part 73.10, and associated practice direction)

application fee, around 300

multitrack fee for a hearing ( it will prob require an hearing. orders for sale hearings auto go to multitrack? ganymede/andy will confirm if n/a), around 1,000.

leaflet ex50 re court fees.

and then maybe the cost/expense of effecting the sale.

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Ok, so its going to be around 1300 just to get to the hearing stage, what happens if at that stage the judge/court reject the order for sale, who is then liable for the costs incurred, are they added to the outstanding debt amount or can't I reclaim that amount?

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" he supplied details of his bank accounts showing he didn't have enough to cover then debt "

 

If you have details of his accounts ...perhaps consider a Third Party Debt Order.

We could do with some help from you.

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I did look at getting a third party order previously but as the debtor wont have enough money in the account to pay the debt it wasn't really a viable option. During an order for questioning he provided a bank statement which showed he only had a few pound in the account and he detailed his earnings/outgoings (which I'm sure were bias in his interest) but regardless it showed he would not have more then a few hundred pound at any one time in the account, which obviously falls well short of the almost £4000 owed.

 

 

As I said, if I pursed the Order for Sale and it was rejected by the court but the charge remained in place, am I then liable for those costs

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If rejected you would stand your own loss.

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok, its looking like I will just have to wait til he decides to sell the property to get my money then. What happens if the debtor never sells the property and its is then inherited by whoever he wills it to, am I still in the same situation, would I have to wait for them to sell the property?

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I would assume you would have first call before the beneficiaries Colin

We could do with some help from you.

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Not that I am aware of...you just have to prove that he is receiving the rent ....therefore he has undisclosed income.

We could do with some help from you.

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He has declared receiving £750pm rent for the property during a previous Order for Questioning so at best at any one time that would be the most I could get with a Third Party Order which would be a waste of time. Looks like I am just going to have to wait it out. Thanks for all your help.

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