Can A Bailiff Gain Entry If I Give Them Entry To Serve Notice On A Tenant?

[roony]

I need to serve a section 8 notice, I'm on the premises & can open the door to allow them to serve the tenants notice.

 

The residence is a private residential address.

 

I'm already staying on the premises, & I can open the door from the inside, & allow the bailiff in to serve notice.

 

Is this legal?

 

The tricky part is, I dont have a tenancy agreement to prove I live on the property, but I can prove I'm the landlord.

 

& the tenants still have a tenancy contract AST on the property.

 

Basically can the tenants claim forced entry, or something, if I allow a bailiff entry to serve notice?

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I have moved your post to the bailiff forum where appropriate help should arrive.

 

In the meantime, my thoughts are that you can allow peaceful access to the communal area but you can't give them access to the tenants property.

 

Others will be able to give a better answer.

[mikeymack2002]

Can you please supply more history of this issue please..

[Bailiff Advice]

HCEO or Grumpy are in the best position to respond to the enquiry. They will most likely pop by in the morning.

[Peterbard]

I think that under the old rules a third party would not be permitted to grant entry, not sure of the position now. I would have thought though that realistically, carelessly leaving the outer door ajar and the EA gaining peaceful entry wouldn't be breaking any laws, and in any case be very hard to prove as being intentional.

[roony]

Hi,

 

The back story :

 

My mother moved into the tenants property because she was forced to rent out her home, & had nowhere else to go. She literally has no way of paying the mortgage, as the tenants havent paid rent for over 4 months.

 

She has no income to cover the mortgage payments.

 

Out of desperation she rented out her entire home, & used a breach of contract clause in the AST, to get the keys for the then vacant property, from the tenants.

 

Basically to find a place for herself to stay, if she didnt she would be homeless.

 

The key to consider is that the tenants don't live on the property.

 

All they have is a small office, next to the main front door.

 

My question, is it ok for her or me to open the door, from the inside to let the let bailiff in & serve the notice?

 

Technically from what I understand, the front door is considered a communal area, so she has a right to open the door.

 

This is where it gets messy ...

 

1. The tenants have a residential AST, which covers the entire property, including the communal area.

 

2. Usually with a residential AST, which covers the entire property, she would have to give 3 days notice to enter the property.

 

But as she's already on the property & has been there for over a month, the tenants will most likely dispute they handed over the keys, as no form was signed nor was it recorded.

 

She should have access to the communal area. As she's already living on the premises. Albeit without a tenancy agreement with the existing tenants, making her technically a lodger...

 

But ...

 

3. Also from what I understand according to the Landlord & Tenants Act 1954, as the tenants arent living on the property, she also has a right to the communal area.

 

4. Basically according to the the Landlord & Tenants Act 1954, a tenant has to reside on the property, to gain exclusive access to the entire area, including the communal area.

 

If someone can confirm & point out what parts of the Landlord & Tenants Act 1954 apply to the above 4 points, we should be able to resolve this pretty quickly.

[Peterbard]

So are you saying that the tenants are renting a commercial property and you wish to terminate their possession ?

[roony]

I Forgot to mention, the tenants have a strict residential AST, & dont live on the property.

 

The tenants are unlawfully running a business without our permission on the property under a residential AST.

[Peterbard]

I Forgot to mention, the tenants have a strict residential AST, & dont live on the property.

 

The tenants are unlawfully running a business without our permission on the property under a residential AST.

 

Yes thanks it was your mention of an office which made me wonder.

 

Will get back to you , it is a while since i looked at ASTs and i know that some of the rules changed last October.

[roony]

Thanks Dodgeball

[caro]

Is this the same issue as this thread?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?455543&p=4823916#post4823916

[roony]

Hey,

No its a different issue, in that thread, I needed to know what were my options to evict someone, apart from a section 8 or section 21.

 

In this thread I need to know the specifics of how to serve a section 8 notice, without screwing it up, as I'm not familiar with the ins & out's of serving notice ...

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I don't deal with section 8's at all so my knowledge on this is fairly limited i'm afraid. But..I would have to say that allowing him access is probably going to be a big no no. Hopefully someone else will be along to advise you. Failing that, i would certainly look to seek legal advice before just letting someone in to a house to serve this notice.

What efforts have been carried out so far to try and serve?

[roony]

No efforts have been tried yet.

 

If I dont get a definite solution, I'll just get the bailiff to pop it through the letter box, & i'll hand it myself

[Peterbard]

No you wouldn't Grumpy section 8s are issued before the commitment of court proceedings and the issuance of a judgement, so a bailiff need not be involved. Different if is it is a commercial property which is what I am looking at now.

 

In addition the bailiff , if employed would not be working under a judgement, so would not be constrained by the TCE, he is not taking control of goods he is simply delivering a letter(notice to quit).

[roony]

Yea, its just a simple serve a notice on a tenant with a residential AST, but my moms on the property & I can serve it from inside. Just wanna know if its ok for me to let the guy in to serve notice.

 

I think it should be ok, as dodge points out, its just a notice, basically delivering a letter.

 

Im pretty sure, right of entry laws for bailiffs dont apply to serving a notice. As long as the guy delivering the letter is let in, it should be ok.

 

I dont think its a bailiff issue, as he's not seizing goods.

[Peterbard]

Yes I as hoping you could progress the procedure by stating that the tenancy was being operated on a commercial basis, but unfortunately not. You can get the EA to deliver your letter if you are not keen on doing it yourself, there is no restriction on how he does other than the ones contained in the Housing act and of course the letter itself has to be formatted and worded in a certain way, templates can be down loaded from various legal websites and if you use a EA they will supply one for you no doubt. Use grounds 8 for arrears.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[roony]

Thanks dodge, I'm pretty sure I can let the bailiff in to serve the notice. As its just a simple letter.

 

I havent seen anywhere any restrictions on serving a notice, other then not breaking the door down or using violence ...

 

Btw whats ground 8?

 

Nm grounds 8 is under section 8...

[Peterbard]

When you fill in the form 8 notice it will have a place where you have to state your reason for issuing notice. The reasons are itemised in the Housing act, the one regarding arrears is grounds 8, this is a statutory form and must be correctly completed otherwise a court will reject it and you will have to give another one and wait for another prescribed period, good news is that once issued the form lasts for 12 months.

[roony]

Awesome, thanks dodge.

[Surfer01]

Have you informed the council that they are managing a business from a residential property as they shoudln have planning permission and be paying council rates. As you have the residential tenancy agreement there should be no hassle however the council will do all the leg work and pay the bailiffs to remove the current tenants.

[roony]

They have a C2 Residential institutions Planning permission, basically "Residential care homes, hospitals, nursing homes, boarding schools, residential colleges and training centres."

 

So they might be able run a C2 on residential property, but I'll check with the local council if theyre allowed to run a C2 business on a residential tenancy.

[Surfer01]

They have a C2 Residential institutions Planning permission, basically "Residential care homes, hospitals, nursing homes, boarding schools, residential colleges and training centres."

 

So they might be able run a C2 on residential property, but I'll check with the local council if theyre allowed to run a C2 business on a residential tenancy.

Also if possible check the council tax rates they are paying. They would definitely require permission from the LL and a consultation by the planning department should have been done with neighbours to see if there were any objections. If this was by pass, I would be looking deeper and woudl try and find out who is actually behind the scheme.

[roony]

Thats great, how do I check what council tax rates theyre paying? Can you check online? I'm about to ring the local council.

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

Thats great, how do I check what council tax rates theyre paying? Can you check online? I'm about to ring the local council.

 

Thanks

 

You can check what Band they are see http://cti.voa.gov.uk/cti/inits.asp for details