Paris attacks: Dozens dead and hostages held at Bataclan

[Conniff]

That is what they do all the time. Must be very difficult to run 24 hour news, without keep repeating.

 

I find CNN a better channel during major news events.

 

That's what we have been watching along with Bloomberg.

[citizenB]

The news channels continual non stop coverage of this just repeating the same thing over and over again is starting to get boring. There are other things happening in this country and the world but you wouldn't think so.

 

 

It is very annoying - Huw Edwards took over the 6 pm news last night with the Paris attacks - there was nothing about the incident at Gatwick ! In fact no other news at all, except for the local channels.

[tobyjugg2]

It would seem that at least one of these terrorists has been on the terrorist wanted list since he jumped bail in 2013.

It says much for the ineffectiveness of the legal snooping in France.

 

France is now bombing targets in Raqqa

- wonder why those targets weren't hit before?

 

With Russia/Assad/Hezbollah/Iran now driving ISIS and other radical extremists back from the west - now that the Western alliances no-fly imposition on those fighting ISIS there have been negated by Russia,

and the Kurds expanding out from their region ...

 

... The next step should be to cut off ISIS supply lines from saudi arabia in the areas where the wests planes have dominance, then ISIS will be in real trouble in that region.

 

This will undoubtedly result in a significant increase in attacks on western civilians and cities, but that would seem to have started anyway.

These attacks are probably because real strikes against ISIS are now being made rather than them protected in their expansion as it demonstrably was with just the western alliance air forces in place there enforcing no fly zones.

 

It is good to see a lot of the wests rhetoric about 'Assad is the problem and must be deposed' is changing. Too little too late, but better than the previous stance.

 

Despite the changing rhetoric, Cameron still comes out with rubbish like

'ISIS dont respect Syrias borders so we shouldn't'

 

Well ISIS and most criminals have no respect for any borders,

for example - burglars dont respect peoples house borders, but it doesn't mean anyone can and should walk in and take what they want from your house after you have been burgled - whether you are a good person or not.

It is a relevant simile as its respect of laws and peoples/nations spaces.

 

That would mean (according to Cameron) that any invasion or insurrection anywhere should result in external countries bombing the established government there.

 

If Camerons rhetoric were taken onboard, then perhaps as ISIS is moving here in the UK and France, Russia and the West coalition should send fighters to bomb Paris and London targets...

As ISIS is operating here ...

When you think about it, Camerons stance is that stupid and dangerous.

Hopefully the west will forget its obsession with removing ASSAD at any cost, at least until ISIS is destroyed as an effective force.

.. A year or more late, but better late than not at all.

 

I feel very sorry for innocent citizens in Raqqa, but its way past time ISIS's tanks, trucks and training camps were destroyed on sight, and not protected as 'free syrians'.

[unclebulgaria67]

Very messy world we live in, but it has always been this way. Humans are programmed to seek conflict.

 

Solution is for moderate peaceful people to take back ownership of their countries and religions. There should be zero tolerance towards hate preachers or anyone who motivates people to inflict harm on others. The only way to defeat ISIS is to cut off their supply lines of money and weapons. The bombing is just causing them to spread out and more civilians will get killed.

[citizenB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34826438

 

 

 

 

Another Polish minister seemed to challenge the German approach to welcoming refugees when he said "we have to be aware that we were wrong, too naive and idealistic."

 

The President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker warned on Sunday against giving in to what he called "base reactions" over the refugee crisis.

 

Any proof that the refugee routes have been used by terrorists will pose further problems for German Chancellor Angela Merkel. She has already seen a significant drop in her poll ratings and is under pressure to close the German borders which would be a political defeat for her.

 

This weekend she was comparing the crisis to the challenges of German re-unification. But uniting the German people is very different from accepting maybe a million refugees from different cultures.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

I think ISIS has made the biggest mistake of its life in doing that to the French.

 

Turkey may ignore/help ISIS and focus on the Kurds, but France has and will attack ISIS and stick two fingers up to the Americans plans - whatever they are.

 

I'm not saying that France getting involved was right, but now they and the Russians are, ISIS and the American/Saudi plans are definitely blown out of the water.

ISIS will be hit - HARD.

[tobyjugg2]

There has been a very competent and informative brief on the situation in Syria on Sky news today as part of the coverage on this attack.

I didn't note the name of the chap,

- trying to find it.

[Guest]

.........

xxxx will be hit - HARD.

 

anon response, vid on the beeb

eg http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/16/anonymous-unveils-isis-targets_n_8575140.html

[Tawnyowl]

I have seen some terrible things in my life.

A few i put on a few posts ago.But took them off because i did not want to look at them again when perhaps i read this thread in years to come.

But this has completely made me speechless.

The words i wanted to say had best be left off a public forum.

Perhaps there are no words that describe how many of us must feel when you read this.

 

Smile of a depraved killer: Shocking video shows sick Paris terror mastermind LAUGHING as he drags the corpses of his Syrian victims behind his truck

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/index.html

 

ISIS plot to use cyber-jihadists to bring down airliners and target UK's nuclear power stations and hospitals

George Osborne set to warn of ISIS cyber threat to hospitals and airports

Threat emerges as police investigate 600 terrorist plots against Britain

3,000 Islamist fanatics are being monitored – with one arrest every day

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3321369/Cyber-jihadis-threat-UK-jets-hospitals-Ministers-issue-new-terror-alert-police-probe-600-plots-seize-one-suspect-day.html

 

In the past 12 months alone, seven plots have been stopped, including one 'disrupted' by MI5 in the last fortnight.

 

I have not really read or seen the latest news apart from a glimpse and am rushing off now.

Has this animal been caught yet.

If not some are hiding him,they must be.

But where.

[unclebulgaria67]

In an ideal world, you would resolve this all peacefully and talk these terrorists out of carrying on with their war on the world.

 

But as this is unlikely to work, you have to bring together a coalition of the willing to fight a massive ground war, to remove the threat in a number of countries. Once you remove the problem, you then have to ensure that you leave behind a strong government that can unite a country.

[tobyjugg2]

In an ideal world, you would resolve this all peacefully and talk these terrorists out of carrying on with their war on the world.

 

But as this is unlikely to work, you have to bring together a coalition of the willing to fight a massive ground war, to remove the threat in a number of countries. Once you remove the problem, you then have to ensure that you leave behind a strong government that can unite a country.

 

Wouldn't work - they would just move to more hidden terrorist attacks on civilians.

 

and who is this strong government?

It was Saddam Husein and Gaddafi and is Assad

 

Just examine the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Assad gone will make the situation far far worse.

 

There are two options,

1. Support and work with the dictators that the region needs. Working with them to mitigate the unpleasant sides that such rules both require and generate.

2. Break the whole region back up into its historic warring tribal zones busy fighting each other, walk away, and hope against hope and example that a fanatic doesn't quickly take over - like ISIS

(what about the oil? - they would still sell it but much smaller amounts - do we really want to be dependent on Iran and sauds)

 

The region had reached a historic state of precarious and uneasy balance (despite the many local spats) until the yanks and saudis flipped the dominos.

Now I genuinely fear it will take generations to return to even that state and Iran is the only one who will gain.

[unclebulgaria67]

Even before Saddam, Gaddafi etc, there were problems. Has been going on for a very very long time.

 

You either deal with it properly accepting consequences or you deal with situations as they arise hoping it sorts itself out.

 

If the Arab nations were willing to work together, they could resolve this over a long period. But i am not sure this is possible.

 

Assad will need to remain for now and Russia can play an important role in at least securing part of Syria. ISIS need to be contained as much as they can be and then need to be dealt with. This will unfortunately mean civilian casualties.

[Tawnyowl]

Latest-6-45am

Paris attacks: Police swoop on apartment in northern suburb

Armed police are raiding a flat in the northern Paris suburb of Saint Denis in an operation believed linked to last Friday's attacks.

Paris police said gunfire had been exchanged and some officers had been wounded.

Unconfirmed reports said Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the alleged mastermind of the attacks, is the focus of the operation.

 

 

Two big developments start off Wednesday in the aftermath of the Paris attacks last week in which 129 people were killed:

 

Officers have been reported shot during a raid in a Paris suburb. Also, two Air France flights were diverted in U.S. airspace because of bomb threats.

 

Le Monde: 'Two people killed' in St Denis raids

Posted at 06:20

Two people have been killed in the Saint Denis raids, Le Monde reports, citing police sources.

Rumours of several terrorists battling it out with grenades,Kalashnikovs.

 

It started with an explosion. Then there was second big explosion. Then two more explosions. There was an hour of gunfire.''

 

6-48am

BREAKING: Abdelhamid Abaaoud is target of operation happening now in Paris, prosecutor's spokesperson confirms. http://abcn.ws/1NaFuYQ

 

Not confirmed,but rumoured.Ongoing.

Two people now killed in this shoot out in Paris, three arrested, more still hiding in building according to French media

 

6-52am

At least seven explosions have been heard at the scene of a police standoff with suspects in last week's deadly Paris attacks.

 

Associated Press reporters at the scene could hear what sounded like grenade blasts from the direction of the standoff in the heart of the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis.

 

The source of the blasts is unclear. Police say several people are holed up in an apartment and several police have been injured in an operation that has lasted at least three hours on Wednesday morning.

 

Bomb Threats Force Air France Planes To Land

Intelligence agents are investigating the source of the anonymous phone call that forced two Air France planes to land.

http://news.sky.com/story/1589565/bomb-threats-force-air-france-planes-to-land

 

 

 

Not confirmed.-Ongoing situation.

Reports two suspected jihadists including woman who detonated suicide belt have died in Saint Denis siege

Also reports of police injuries.Not confirmed.Ongoing.

 

Prosecutor: 3 men arrested in Saint-Denis apartment, 2 others arrested nearby; 1 woman blew herself up

Hundreds of reports every minute.Everything will become clearer soon.

 

Reports 4 officers hurt in raid

Police,army and special forces everywhere.Some in balaclavas walking around,fully armed.

[tobyjugg2]

If Europe, as seems likely, closes its borders or otherwise restricts migration, what we will be doing is leaving a whole load of people in the clutches of violent lunatics with little hope of escape. I find it hard to see how this will solve the problem.

 

If these people wont stand up for themselves in their own country, then where does that end?

We all move on somewhere else with them when a handful of ISIS come a calling?

What happens when there is nowhere else to run?

 

They should be standing up for their beliefs in their homeland.

 

 

 

A few things thats got me right from the start.

 

How come the combined weight of many of the most powerful nations in the world over a couple of years of time cant beat a few thousand guys with some light weaponry? - quite the opposite in fact.

 

How come these mighty powers with spy planes, drones and satellites cant even seem to find these terrorists who can make established well supplied armies and MILLIONS of citizens run in fear?

 

How come a few weeks with Russia bombing the radicals, there is more improvement and more kickback than in 18 months of America the so called mightiest power on Earth fighting a 'mortal enemy'.

 

Just doesn't wash does it?

[citizenB]

If these people wont stand up for themselves in their own country, then where does that end?

We all move on somewhere else with them when a handful of ISIS come a calling?

What happens when there is nowhere else to run?

 

They should be standing up for their beliefs in their homeland.

 

 

 

A few things thats got me right from the start.

 

How come the combined weight of many of the most powerful nations in the world over a couple of years of time cant beat a few thousand guys with some light weaponry? - quite the opposite in fact.

 

How come these mighty powers with spy planes, drones and satellites cant even seem to find these terrorists who can make established well supplied armies and MILLIONS of citizens run in fear?

 

How come a few weeks with Russia bombing the radicals, there is more improvement and more kickback than in 18 months of America the so called mightiest power on Earth fighting a 'mortal enemy'.

 

Just doesn't wash does it?

 

This is what I have said all along. If they want a better life for themselves, why are they not fighting for it in their own Country?

 

How come the combined weight of many of the most powerful nations in the world over a couple of years of time cant beat a few thousand guys with some light weaponry? - quite the opposite in fact.

 

How come these mighty powers with spy planes, drones and satellites cant even seem to find these terrorists who can make established well supplied armies and MILLIONS of citizens run in fear?

 

 

I suspect the reason for this is, there are too many "mighty Powers" who have to answer to their own people - do they want to invest money/manpower in countries who really wont thank them for their efforts. There will loss of innocent/civilian life. The UK and USA (and others) lost millions of young men - 1000's of innocent civilians also lost their lives in the first 2 World Wars. It is the price you pay for your beliefs.

[SabreSheep]

 

They should be standing up for their beliefs in their homeland.

 

IN world war two when countries were occupied, the free french came here, the free poles came here, they wanted to stay but had no hope so instead they fought to save this country and were pare of the few that were owed so much by so many! We in turn helped liberate their country after they helped save ours!

 

A few things thats got me right from the start.

 

How come the combined weight of many of the most powerful nations in the world over a couple of years of time cant beat a few thousand guys with some light weaponry? - quite the opposite in fact.

Indeed, its not as easy as it sounds - when you cant seperate the few thousand guys form the civilians - Vietnam

 

How come these mighty powers with spy planes, drones and satellites cant even seem to find these terrorists who can make established well supplied armies and MILLIONS of citizens run in fear?

Spy planes and satalites cant tell one syrian/iraqi from another (Unless infamous ISIL Leader)

 

 

How come a few weeks with Russia bombing the radicals, there is more improvement and more kickback than in 18 months of America the so called mightiest power on Earth fighting a 'mortal enemy'.

 

Western Powers are sensitive to anything that "Hits Civilians" where as Russia is not so sensitive

 

Just doesn't wash does it?

 

 

in red

[Conniff]

We in turn helped liberate their country after they helped save ours!

 

That's not completely correct, we helped remove the Germans and handed them over to the Communist Russians.

[SabreSheep]

that sadly is accurate

[tobyjugg2]

in red

 

Theres quite a difference in ability between spy plane/satelites/drones in vietnam war times and now,

 

as there is a massive difference between seeing people/trucks moving through a cloud covered jungle 50 years ago and those moving through open desert today.

 

 

The real issue is differentiating between who is ISIS fighters and who is not, and the only real 'nots' with guns are Assads forces and the Kurds.

 

The fighters amongst civilians issue is one that wont go away, so must be addressed in some way.

 

- and it took far more than a thousand men with Kalashnikovs to drive the French out of their homeland - it took the mightiest war machine the world had ever seen in fact.

[Conniff]

that sadly is accurate

 

How can it be inaccurate, the allies defeated Germany which liberated Poland, Poland was then given to Russia. Communism or Nazism, which one is worse.

[tobyjugg2]

Communism or Nazism, which one is worse.

 

Nazism without a doubt is worse.

[SabreSheep]

Russia was a totalitarian dictatorship in disguise as communism, but as I said, I agreed with you, the Polish were let down considerably

[Conniff]

Sorry misread you SS I saw 'in' accurate.

 

Seeing as we never actually saw Nazism working during piecetime I don't think we can say it is worse.

[tobyjugg2]

Sorry misread you SS I saw 'in' accurate.

 

Seeing as we never actually saw Nazism working during piecetime I don't think we can say it is worse.

 

We actually did see it working during peacetime in Germany, and many good things came from it in those early days (well for those classed as aryans), although the methods of its gaining power was a harbinger of things to come.

 

It generally isnt a system itself which is inherently good or bad, but how they end up used.

Some are just more open to abuse than others.

 

The evil part is the elitism which considers one race or part of society to be more entitled/better than another -

which we see in many areas of politics

Dont forget that nazism was called National Socialist DESPITE actually being a far right fascist party in the broader definitions

[unclebulgaria67]

We don't talk about human issues which are at the root of all of this. Brains are very complex organs and we know people can become convinced that certain beliefs and actions are rational. We read about this on a daily basis here on CAG and in the media.

 

I always find it worrying that many Americans carry loaded firearms on a daily basis. If you visit a US shopping mall in certain parts of the country where they allow firearms to be carried by people, you could be shopping with hundreds of others who have loaded guns under jackets or in handbags. Apparently since the attacks in Paris, Americans have been reporting people who look like Muslims to Police as acting suspiciously. The Police have then stopped people, carried out body searches and even searched homes. They have then found no issues to be concerned about.

 

What we must not do, is get into a situation where people start fearing others, because of the way they look or what religion they follow. There have reports of numerous verbal attacks on Muslims on public transport, who were simply commuting to work.