TKmaxx refund

[sillygirl1]

Whenever I've had a refund from a shop I've always had to give my name and address. Nothing sinister in that at all. I had a refund from Asda and one from Primark recently and in both cases I had to give my name and address.

 

You are thinking far too deeply about possibilities which may not happen.

 

Moderators, this thread is lending nothing to the forum, could it be closed and tidied up please.

[Grumpy.Bear]

Thank you everybody for the prompt reply, i have done loads of reading.... Made me worry more ::::

Felling very guilty

What if i call bank and ask them to return 2 last refund back to TKmaxx, then there is no ££ gain for me and no loss for TKmaxx?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Grumpy.Bear

[Grumpy.Bear]

What if there is B - they may be getting evidence to make complaint to the police?

I have read on this forum that it happen in May, as there is new law in April regarding, and the TKmaxx staff noticed the wrong items, and will put the CCTV and other evidence to the police.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Grumpy.Bear

[BazzaS]

Thank you everybody for the prompt reply, i have done loads of reading.... Made me worry more ::::

Felling very quilty as i have might done in once before in May in TKmaxx, a different dress (but within the same price range) refund. i know i am sick, i need to see my GP. my family (kids and hubby) very honest people they will be distressed and shocked by my actions.

What if i call bank and ask them to return 2 last refund back to TKmaxx, then there is no ££ gain for me and no loss for TKmaxx?

 

"What if i call bank and ask them to return 2 last refund back to TKmaxx, then there is no ££ gain for me and no loss for TKmaxx?"

 

I wouldn't advise it at this stage. It might draw attention to yourself. If you would you have "got away with it", it may re-open things.

 

(Normally I'm all for being open and admitting guilt : but it is clear the OP already feels guilty, and I don't think there is much to be gained by them just increasing the chance their acts have been noticed...)

 

It also wouldn't prevent a prosecution, as if there was an offence it was made out the moment the false representation was made : returning any money wouldn't prevent there being prosecution, as the prosecution isn't "TKMaxx made a loss, give back the money and they dont make a loss", but would be "TKMaxx were exposed to a risk of loss" :

it doesn't matter (in terms of prosecution) if the fraud by false representation succeeded or not.

 

(Returning money becomes of significance if there is a court case and guilt found, as it influences mitigation / sentencing), but for now: I suggest you don't risk increasing your chance of being prosecuted by drawing attention to yourself.

[Grumpy.Bear]

What shall i do if next week there is the police at my door?

[BazzaS]

What shall i do if next week there is the police at my door?

 

Ask them if they wish you to attend the police station, at an agreed time, when you will attend with a solicitor.

If arrested (on suspicion of fraud by false representation, and "to enable prompt and effective investigation", go with them, and ask for your solicitor / (or the duty solicitor). If they want to question you, at any stage, say "I am happy to answer questions, but only with my legal representative present".

 

Again, it may not come to that, but since you are asking "what should I do" in case it does - that would be my advice.

[Grumpy.Bear]

and would you please recommend how to find the solicitor on the budget?

[BazzaS]

and would you please recommend how to find the solicitor on the budget?

 

Again, you may be over-worrying.

 

However, if you would feel better planning for "just in case" : try a local solicitor that says it deals with criminal law practice, on legal aid, OR if you don't wish to pick your own solicitor

and want the police station to arrange a solicitor for you, you can ask at the police station for the 'duty solicitor".

 

Links you might want to read up on if this is worrying you:

https://www.gov.uk/legal-aid

https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/legal-advice-at-the-police-station

[Grumpy.Bear]

What do you think if I speak to TKmaxx manager and admit that i did mistake and offer him/her to pay back the refunded money?

 

 

oh dear, Legal aid cuts:

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jun/30/criminal-lawyers-promise-boycott-legal-aid-cases-lower-rate

 

 

now, i would have to represent myself (scary thought)

Edited July 7, 2015 by Grumpy.Bear

[BazzaS]

What do you think if I speak to TKmaxx manager and admit that i did mistake and offer him/her to pay back the refunded money?

 

I've answered this above (see post #29): I think it is a bad idea.

 

It might draw their attention to what you have done where they might not currently even be thinking you've done wrong.

It wouldn't stop them involving the police / prevent a prosecution even if they had reported it and the police were currently investigating.

[BazzaS]

 

oh dear, Legal aid cuts:

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jun/30/criminal-lawyers-promise-boycott-legal-aid-cases-lower-rate

 

 

now, i would have to represent myself (scary thought)

 

There are legal aid cuts. There is no suggestion (yet!) that it will affect duty solicitors giving advice at police stations.

[Grumpy.Bear]

Thank you.

To answer the question: "Why did you do it?", quoting The Big Bang Theory's character: "Because she (tkmaxx) let me", maybe not so good idea?

 

But reading the forums, i am shocked how many people did that refund fraud, why TKmaxx don't have better coding system? too much new stocks and not enough men-power?

[renegadeimp]

Stop bloody worrying. It is very likely that nothing will happen. And pleas,e stop reading random things on the internet. Youll just make yourself worry more. If you are really sorry even though you have done this multiple times now, relax, write a letter to the manager of that store and explain. Also explain that you would like to repay what you owe.

 

If the items were recovered by their security guards, then you owe nothing. Even if the police do come to see you, it will likely be a quick slap on the wrist and a fixed penalty caution, or if you go to court, a slap on the wrist from the judge and a small fine. If the latter happens ( and its unlikely), then you can see a duty solicitor at the court for free.

[BazzaS]

Thank you.

To answer the question: "Why did you do it?", quoting The Big Bang Theory's character: "Because she (tkmaxx) let me", maybe not so good idea?

 

But reading the forums, i am shocked how many people did that refund fraud, why TKmaxx don't have better coding system? too much new stocks and not enough men-power?

 

I wasn't aware anyone was asking you why you did it.

I feel the replies have been focused on getting you best advice, not chiding you when you already have expressed remorse.

 

I don't think blaming TKMaxx for their systems or the level of fraud perpetrated on them is likely to be a useful avenue, though.

[silverfox1961]

As advised, my opinion is also to do nothing. IF the plod turn up (I doubt it) follow the above advice.

 

Yes, go see your GP. They have a duty to keep everything you say confidential. From reading your posts, I get the distinct impression you may be depressed and as such, counselling may help you or just a short course of 'happy pills'

 

You are reading far too much into this and while we could never predict 100% what WILL happen, we can be fairly sure of our advice. We have been doing it a while. If you feel you must atone, make a donation to a charity close to your heart.

[Ethel Street]

Grumpy.Bear,

 

I've no idea why your question has generated such a spat between two regular posters, but I do agree with the other advice you've been given - do nothing. Wait and see if anything happens. If it does come back here for more advice. Approaching TKMaxx yourself will almost certainly make it worse (if it doesn't completely confuse them, they'll probably have no idea what you are talking about!) I don't have particular knowledge or experience of what TKMaxx do but it seems to me that if TKMaxx were going to do anything they would have said something when you were there.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

[maxxer]

Always late to the party ............

 

 

What you did is fraud.

 

 

However, the policy was (as others have said) to limit taking action to people who do it twice or more (and that's twice in different transactions, unless they take the pee, and return say 20 or so swapped items in one transaction).

 

 

So, yes, you may be 'on the radar' in that store, or indeed that area. The process was to get a picture off the cctv, and circulate it to the other local area TK Maxx's, to ensure that if you went in there, then they would also watch you.

 

 

There will be no police knocking on your door, IF this is the first time you have done this. IF there is the possibility that you have returned items with swapped tickets before, then yes, you may be getting a knock.

 

 

Again, the process was that if you were a regular shopper, we would wait for you to come back in, having put the case file together, detain you when you came back in, and call police.

 

 

If you didn't turn up for a few weeks, we would do some digging with the address details you gave us, check if you were registered to vote there, 192.com etc, and if it turns up that you do, call in the police to come and arrest you at home.

 

 

This isn't a small thing in TK Maxx - due to the till systems only putting a generic description onto the receipt, people seemed to think it was their right to swap around tickets and bring any old crud back with our tickets on. TK's are very much geared up for this and before I left, were having over 11,000 arrests nationally on the basis of fraud.

 

 

I used to wish they would switch over the tills, but its a massive task apparently, and the rationale behind not doing it when loss prevention complained, was simply '99% of our customers are honest, why make them cover the cost of a new till system for the dishonest 1% - your job is to make sure those 1% never step foot in our stores again'.

 

 

 

 

So, to conclude:

 

 

Don't go back into a tk maxx store again. your cards are marked.

 

 

If you have done this more than once, there is still a possibility of a door knock.

 

 

Its up to you if you go and tell someone about your mistakes.

 

 

 

 

for those recommending that the OP 'doesn't say anything' - Are you not encouraging her to conceal a criminal offence IE conspiracy to pervert the course of justice ........

[silverfox1961]

Hi Maxxer, good to see your point of view on this. I know you no longer work in TKMaxx so the systems may have changed since your departure.

 

You may be correct about 'marked cards' so the OP needs to be very careful and certainly stop obtaining refunds (unless truly legit)

 

I am going to pick you up on a couple of points.

 

Its up to you if you go and tell someone about your mistakes

This was no mistake, It was a choice. Pedantic, yup, guilty as charged but I absolutely detest it when people say mistakes over poor choices.

 

for those recommending that the OP 'doesn't say anything' - Are you not encouraging her to conceal a criminal offence IE conspiracy to pervert the course of justice

 

If the police did arrest the OP, he has the absolute right to say nothing. It is for them to prove guilt rather than giving them help however, if there are underlying reasons for the actions which could be mitigating circumstances then I would agree that confession is better that saying nothing.

 

I would also appreciate your comments on this thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448994-RLP-FAQ-s.-What-do-they-mean&p=4762870&viewfull=1#post4762870

[maxxer]

Its the training, sorry !. we were always told to say 'mistakes' rather than what we really though 'you thieving git' as we weren't supposed to accuse the customers of wrongdoing - we were always told 'you are simply presenting the facts of an incident to the police and courts, its up to them to decide guilt'.

 

 

In reality, most of what I read on here I immediately smell if its a guilty action. Its been the case a couple of times when I worked for TK's, I could identify a case on here, look it up on our system, and find the 'facts' presented by the OP were slightly different to reality, and to see them stop posting, when the court case said guilty. Would of liked to of let you guys know the real facts, but DPA etc ..... (and I appreciate you guys have only what they tell you to go on).

[BazzaS]

:

for those recommending that the OP 'doesn't say anything' - Are you not encouraging her to conceal a criminal offence IE conspiracy to pervert the course of justice ........

 

Sins of omission vs. sins of commission.

 

It could be perverting the course of justice if the advice was "hide the evidence" or "here is how to hide the evidence".

 

Additionally, what you are suggesting would mean everyone giving a PACE caution would expose themselves to risk of prosecution for perverting the course of justice if their interviewee gave a "no comment" interview, since they are told "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."

 

What is so different between CAG advice of "it may not improve things to go back and tell" and "you do not have to say anything" that makes you think one is an offence, and the other not?

 

BTW, just because I disagree with you on that point (& I may have persuaded you to reconsider??), doesn't mean I am not grateful for your expertise and the input you put in in this and related threads!

[ericsbrother]

to conspire to commit a crime you have to do it with someone with the same intent.

Most stores use their computer power to look for repeating patterns of purchase for advertising reasons and patterns of refunds for fraud reasons. The methodology varies from retailer to retailer but they wont accuse anyone evn if they suspect something is going on unless ther is a pattern so they will be looking at least 3 events. Now the OP has admitted that she has made a gain by returning items but it does not automatically follow that the store wouls take any action, even if they confessed to a wrongdoing because it willstill be for them to prove that there was intention to make a gain or advantage and without other evidence a confession is worthless.

For this reason I would concur with those who saylearn from your errors, do not repeat them and move on as next time it is very likely that the computer will flag up the past and then the OP will get that cup of tea and a chat into a tape recorder in a room without windows..