Housing benefit & dealing with 2 estates & ESA claim in support group

[Rich44]

Hi

 

I'll try to do this briefly. Nov wife's aunt died, December MIL died, my wife is administrator of both estates

 

There was about £7,000 of life insurance paid out, which went into a new bank account in my wife's name. In the meantime I left my job 31st Dec due to poor health I have now been put into the support group for 3 years for income based ESA (without an assessment BTW)

 

We declared the money in the bank account to the district council and sent copies of the death certificates to prove that's what the money was for. There is way more debt than cash so been trying to talk to all creditors to reach an amicable resolution, unfortunately most of the creditors have ignored her letters (worst was Argos refusing to talk to her at all and sending out default notices to the MIL address). So we haven't been able to pay them because of this so the money is sitting in wife's new bank account.

 

Thought no more of it because we'd done the right thing and told the council immediately when we started a housing benefit claim in January.

 

Today had a letter stopping our housing benefit primarily because they claim im now receiving contributions based ESA (i'm not confirmed by DWP THREE times!!) and also they want to count the MIL estate as OUR money and reduce our housing benefit and council tax benefit accordingly.

 

Is this correct? I know it looks like the money is ours because of this new account with the money in but I can clearly demonstate it's not but we can't get rid of it due to ongoing negotiations.

 

County council has accepted that we're on IB ESA as given the kids free school meals, DWP say we're on IB ESA but district council won't accept it.

 

So I suppose questions are:

 

1. Is there really no way of handling the estate money without it affecting us?

2. How can I get the council to accept that we get IB ESA so I shouldn't have to fill out another 30 odd page form, plus produce ID, bank statements and travel 25 mile round trip to visit them?

 

Thanks for reading this far, apologies if it's in the wrong place or if i've rambled on stress like this makes me really really ill on top of my usual "problems"

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

My OH is dealing with the same thing for a deceased relative. He has set up an executors' account for money from the estate to go into.

 

Are you able to do that?

 

HB

[honeybee13]

I think you may need to reorganise the bank accounts, although I don't claim to be an expert on this. Here is a link to the Age UK website. I think they give great advice.

 

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Information-guides/AgeUKIL8_How_to_be_an_executor_inf.pdf?dtrk=true

 

HB

[Rich44]

Sorry been ill again. All the money is in separate accounts in my wife's name. We sent death certs, insurance payout letters etc, we told them the estates are bankrupt as more debt than anything (found a credit card for FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS for a lady on benefits, totally shocked by that)

 

Anyway despite all that council say they will count it against us as our money, it's over the £6000 threshold unfortunately, I just can't believe this is the first time this has come up & there's no way around it, really upset.

 

We lived next door and spent twenty mins doing cpr before ambulance arrived then had to deal with ICU etc before switching stuff off, never thought this would turn into such a nightmare too.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

I still wonder if it's worth opening a bespoke executors' account. Here's a website that may be able to shed some light on some of the problems you have around the estate. Their helpline is free and they're good.

 

http://www.bereavementadvice.org/

 

HB

[antone]

I'm not an expert in these things, but assuming that the council has made an outcome decision that you're not entitled to HB (or that your payment should be reduced) because of this money, I would be looking to request a Mandatory Reconsideration and possibly, if necessary, a formal appeal. The argument would be that while your wife may temporarily have the money in her account, she is not the "beneficial owner" of the capital as it belongs to the deceased's estate and ultimately, to its creditors.

 

I think Honeybee's suggestions are good - if possible, move the money to another account where it will be clearer that it isn't yours to spend as you wish, and look for advice from organisations which deal with these sorts of matters. You want to make it obvious that this money is not an inheritance or windfall.

[Rich44]

Hi

Thanks I will mention that to them, we specifically opened a new account so that the 2 estates didn't go anywhere near our joint account because I could see this coming. What really annoys me is we told them about that account, sent bank statements etc to be totally honest as didn't want to be accused of anything and they accepted the claim back in January and we're only hearing about them getting huffy now. Find it incredible how disorganised etc they are.

 

We're going to try and get into overdrive tomorrow. Going to get bankers drafts made up offer all creditors 50% which is going to be the most any of them get. At least with bankers drafts the money is out of the account instantly unlike with sending them a personal cheque. We've got 4 weeks to send the new claim in so I think the easiest way out is just going to be pull our fingers out and get rid of the money. If common sense isn't going to apply then seems the only other way.

 

There's a few hundred spare from one relatives estate so we said they'd want that donated to an animal charity so we'll get that done as well.

 

Very stressful esp as Nationwide (the £4,000 credit card) have been a nightmare they set themselves up as preferential creditor by seizing all the money in the current account to pay themselves. Got that sorted after threatening them with ombudsman and suggested what they were doing was illegal they backed down pretty quick then.

 

Thanks for suggestions esp re the bank account glad to see we had the right idea with that in the first place.

 

I might try and speak to a different person at the council tomorrow and ask why I need to make a new claim given I am in receipt of income related ESA a "passport" benefit as they call it....

 

Dealt with this on Friday phoning DWP and council etc and then had to go to bed at 2pm because I felt so ill and then spent the next 24 hours being sick. Just can't handle being put in situations like that makes me so ill.

 

Oh well at least phoning DWP I found out my ESA support group award is for 3 years so that's a huge relief esp without having a WCA which I was terrified of.

 

Thanks all, lets see what tomorrow brings....

[stevemLS]

Antone is absolutely right, it is not your wife's money.

 

Open an account that is named "The Estate of XXX"

 

Without being rude, does your wife know what she is doing in dealing with the estate? That you, effectively, declared the money as your own suggests not.

 

Who are the beneficiaries under the intestacy rules?

[Rich44]

We DIDN'T declare the money as ours! We told the council the whole story Inc bank statements, death certificates, insurance payout letter & all the letters from solicitors because we didn't want the council to go snooping and find this money and end up with an interview under caution.

 

We were being upfront & truthful with the council because we didn't think they'd say it was our money when it isn't.

 

Tried opening an account as above but only bank nearby is Santander and they wouldn't/couldn't do so.

 

As for knowing what we're doing, no worse than anyone else does when asked to do so. There's no property involved just £10K of capital, funeral costs (paid already) and the rest taken up by debts to be paid.

 

Not really interested in a debate about settling the estate no offence intended but just wanted advice in relation to the COUNCIL claiming the money is ours NOT us.

[honeybee13]

Tried opening an account as above but only bank nearby is Santander and they wouldn't/couldn't do so.

 

It's not easy, I know. The only people who would help us were my bank or the deceased's bank.

 

HB

[Mr.P]

just wanted advice in relation to the COUNCIL claiming the money is ours

 

About all I can suggest is contacting your council councillors and MP to make representations on your behalf. It might also pay to contact the press (I've found the Guardian to be helpful in the past, even if it was only an ear willing to listen).

 

To be honest, I don't see that opening an executors account and transferring the funds will help. The council may well look upon it as "deprivation of capital" despite it never being yours in the first place.

[honeybee13]

Why do you say that about the executor's account, Mr P? I think antone and I were just thinking of how you could show that the money is separate.

 

HB

[Mr.P]

Some anonymous back room decision maker has (apparently) already decided that the funds held in the existing, separate account are for the benefit of the OP. Opening up an account in the name of "The Estate of XXX" (an executors account) is unlikely to reverse the opinion of the DM. Once the elections are out of the way, getting the local councillors to intervene may be the best way to get this problem resolved.

[stevemLS]

Hi

 

I'll try to do this briefly. Nov wife's aunt died, December MIL died, my wife is administrator of both estates

 

There was about £7,000 of life insurance paid out, which went into a new bank account in my wife's name. In the meantime I left my job 31st Dec due to poor health I have now been put into the support group for 3 years for income based ESA (without an assessment BTW)

 

We declared the money in the bank account to the district council and sent copies of the death certificates to prove that's what the money was for. There is way more debt than cash so been trying to talk to all creditors to reach an amicable resolution, unfortunately most of the creditors have ignored her letters (worst was Argos refusing to talk to her at all and sending out default notices to the MIL address). So we haven't been able to pay them because of this so the money is sitting in wife's new bank account.

 

Thought no more of it because we'd done the right thing and told the council immediately when we started a housing benefit claim in January.

 

Today had a letter stopping our housing benefit primarily because they claim im now receiving contributions based ESA (i'm not confirmed by DWP THREE times!!) and also they want to count the MIL estate as OUR money and reduce our housing benefit and council tax benefit accordingly.

 

Is this correct? I know it looks like the money is ours because of this new account with the money in but I can clearly demonstate it's not but we can't get rid of it due to ongoing negotiations.

 

County council has accepted that we're on IB ESA as given the kids free school meals, DWP say we're on IB ESA but district council won't accept it.

 

So I suppose questions are:

 

1. Is there really no way of handling the estate money without it affecting us?

2. How can I get the council to accept that we get IB ESA so I shouldn't have to fill out another 30 odd page form, plus produce ID, bank statements and travel 25 mile round trip to visit them?

 

Thanks for reading this far, apologies if it's in the wrong place or if i've rambled on stress like this makes me really really ill on top of my usual "problems"

 

To be fair to the council, what you have done gives every suggestion that the money is yours and is an inheritance.

 

How are they expected to know what you are doing with a new account in your wife's name and a death certificate?

 

Has she applied for probate yet? That would be evidence that it is not in fact hers.

 

I agree that it will not how help transfering it to an Executors account.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the comments, Mr P and stevemLS. From what you say, it might have helped at outset.

 

I'll stop talking about it now.

[id6052]

Sorry, I am confused, not sure if life insurance relates to aunt or mother-in-law

 

I am definitely no expert on life insurance, but to my knowledge...

 

Life insurance is different from the deceased person's estate

 

Life insurance usually has a named beneficiary, and the money received belongs to the named beneficiary. In which case, it is not subject to probate, does not go into the estate and does not have to be used to pay off the deceased person's debts.

 

Where it gets more complicated is where there is no named beneficiary or the named beneficiaries are dead. In this case, it will depend upon the insurance policy and company.

In some cases, they may pay directly to next of kin and it is treated in the same way as if paid to a named beneficiary above.

In other cases, they may pay directly to the estate, in which case it is subject to probate and deceased person's debts.

 

I think your starting point is to clarify on what basis it was paid?

• 1) named beneficiary
  
• 2) next of kin
  
• 3) estate
  

 

The insurance company should be abe to provide this information

If it is 1 or 2, the money is your partner's, the Council are probably right, but you do not have to use money to pay off debts.

If it is 3, the Council are wrong, but your wife will have to use the money to pay off the deceased person's debts.