Lowell claim form - old shop direct CAT debt ***Claim Dismissed***

[shamrocker]

No need to be sorry. I don't know for sure about the covering letter. I'd probably just include your address, recipient address (1x copy to court & 1x copy to Carter), date, case number, case details....i.e. Lowel v. Bloggs..etc.

 

Then word it something along the lines of -

 

TO CARTER SOLICITOR

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I write to you further to the above matter.

 

Please find enclosed, by way of service, a Supplementary Witness Statement from the Defendant, together with exhibits, in response to the Claimant's Witness Statement dated 21st July 2015.

 

A copy of this Witness Statement has also been filed with the Court today.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

TO THE COURT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I write to you further to the above claim.

 

Please find enclosed a copy Supplementary Witness Statement from the Defendant, together with exhibits, in response to the Claimant's Witness Statement dated 21st July 2015.

 

A copy of this Witness Statement has been served upon the Claimant.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Don't forget any exhibits - is it just the returns documents/receipts? You could probably exhibit other material with regards the Consumer Credit Act and in relation to charges and PPI but it's a bit late in the day now and you'd need to be more specific within some of the points. The whole idea is just to get across the point about there being a dispute on the account and also to cast some doubt on the reliability of the evidence in support of the claim. Hopefully the judge is having a good day and decides to side with you more than might otherwise be the case.

 

Is your wife representing herself at the hearing?

 

Sham

[markwales]

Shamrocker thats brilliant again. only have the receipts for returns as eveidence. I am representing my wife as a lay person.

[shamrocker]

Ok, nice one. It sounds like you have a fair grasp on things and will give a good account of yourself. Don't try to appear too clever with the judge, just try to come across as genuine and sincere and you'll have a better chance of developing a rapport with the him/her. You'll be much more relaxed then.

[markwales]

thats great. i have no problem with genuine and sincere. I have looked at lost of post with regards to lay representation so have no worries about it. will get these docs printed and sent.

 

I know your busy but skeleton argument has been mentioned a couple of times Im guessing that this is a document that I use to lay out the defence??

[markwales]

to clarify, you have stated interest rates at 39.7% but i am not sure where you got that figure from?? Interest rate shown in cca agreement is 33.865%. sorry to be pedantic but just wondered??

[shamrocker]

No. 3 on the recon agreement - 39.7% APR. It says 33.865% further down. Use whatever you're comfortable with, but you should get away with using 39.7% as that's what it states on the agreement and you're not expert enough in these matters to distinguish between the meaning of the two...if you know what I mean. I haven't gone through the details close enough to distinguish the exact nature of each rates stated.

[markwales]

brilliant!! i see it now. thanks again

[shamrocker]

thats great. i have no problem with genuine and sincere. I have looked at lost of post with regards to lay representation so have no worries about it. will get these docs printed and sent.

 

I know your busy but skeleton argument has been mentioned a couple of times Im guessing that this is a document that I use to lay out the defence??

 

Yeah, it outlines the basis of your defence. I don't think you'll need to get too detailed as the WS pretty much outlines the crux of your position. Have a read up on them - you've got best part of a week to prepare it, so plenty of time. I'm off out now but will pop back on here tonight for a while.

[markwales]

Only one hour to get this to the post office. no pressure here. lol

[markwales]

Thanks again shamrocker. you have been awesome

[Old Cogger]

shop direct 39.7% as others used.

[markwales]

Thanks Mike

[markwales]

started thinking about skeleton argument...... I have no experience of any of this process, thoughts from anyone??

[shamrocker]

Just got back in after a long family day out. Hope you managed to get everything sorted. I'll send you a copy of a skeleton argument tomorrow that was given to me by the claimant in the claim I went to court for. It will give you an idea of how to structure it and the sort if content that you should be thinking about putting in there. I wouldn't worry too much about this - you have a few days to get it sorted and I think you've laid out the pertinent points within your WS and you'll easily convey them to the judge on the day during discussions. Hopefully the fact that Carter isn't sending anyone will work in your favour.

[markwales]

shamrocker once again your brilliant. hope you had a good family day out. i look forward to looking over anything you have that may assist me. thanks

[shamrocker]

Yes, had a great day out once the rain stopped! I'm in Sunny Wales too

 

See below for an actual skeleton argument. I would think that they'll differ according to the circumstances around the claim, but it'll be a reference point for you. This one blew me out of the water. I was a bit naive with the whole process

[markwales]

brilliant!! looking over it now....... so appreciate your time on this

[markwales]

shamrocker that is one heck of a skeleton argument. guessing i just need to fit it around my everything since the first letter from lowlifells..... no disrespect shamrocker. would andyorch or dx100 have anything to add here as you guys guided me through the first steps here??

[shamrocker]

That skeleton was drawn up by a barrister who specialises in consumer credit matters. They weren't leaving anything to chance, it would seem! Just use the structure and general approach of the skeleton to focus in on the particular defence you're putting forward. Highlight the weaknesses of the claimant's evidence/witness statement and unpick the gaps - but also include your own strengths (dispute, insurance, charges, etc). Let the judge see that their claim is too full of holes to be granted in the current form, if at all.

 

Yes, definitely ask for some guidance from the other guys. I'm just a mere amateur at this. Ask some questions if you're stuck and also post the skeleton up for us to see and suggest possible improvements.

[markwales]

Thanks shamrocker.

 

For the next installment. Had a letter from the courts today extending the time for the hearing from 15 mins to 90 mins and a "please note" saying that ....the case may be released to a different judge, possibly a different court.

 

Not sure whether this is a good or bad omen. Can carters change their mind and attend?????

[shamrocker]

I'm not sure what's going on, to be honest, but it looks like your witness statement has had some sort of effect. I'd hazard a guess and say that it's either just standard protocol to state that the judge/court may change, but it could also be a case that Carter has suddenly decided that it's best to turn up. It's only likely to be a local 'rent-a-solicitor' - better to get someone to present their case than nobody at all. It doesn't change much anyway - they've still pursued a claim backed by zero evidence other than a crude account summary which you have unpicked and made look extremely dubious. It's up to them to explain how that document is solid proof that your account was in arrears by the amount they claim and also why there are strange goings on with the details on it.

 

How are you getting on with the skeleton argument?

[markwales]

im quietly looking forward to Tuesday as a life experience.

 

Have never done anything like in the past and never had too has have paid all of my legitimate bills.

 

worst case have some installments to pay over how many years.

 

Skeleton argument is in the early stages and wont be as detailed as the one you posted( no wonder barristers charge so much. lol) not sure if i will post it till after the case is processed as dont want to give crappers the heads up but think that the gist of it will be re-visiting points already made.

 

may change my mind when i cant work it out. lol

[markwales]

seriously appreciate the help ive had from dx100, andyorch and shamrocker!!! ..... so hope i can donate to the cause......

[shamrocker]

Fair point re posting the skeleton. Just keep your defence in mind when approaching things from now on, particularly the 3 points near bottom (proof of agreement, proof of total, proof of assignment). They've proved points 1 & 3 (I think)...but you can cast doubt on point 1 re agreement when doubting the accuracy of the account summary.....i.e. 1st payment made too early for an account opened 15th May. Don't dwell on it in discussions though as it'll appear as straw clutching. The key (in the skeleton and also in discussions on Tuesday) is to have a multi-pronged attack where they can't pin you down on one particular point, as you can always shift to another - but your focus all points to a lack of solid evidence put forward by the claimant.

 

In my own experience, I felt they twisted every possible angle in their favour, including things they had no right to. An example is the well known Carey case which provides authority that a recon agreement pre-April 2007 cannot be enforced by the courts and the debtor was under no obligation to make payment until the original was produced. The case means the onus is on the creditor to supply the original signed and fully compliant agreement or it cannot be enforced. They suggested that the onus was on me to prove that the original didn't exist. It can be daunting when you're thrown a 'curve-ball' - but a well thought out skeleton will help, and then you just have to stick to it and don't let them deviate you.

 

Another thing they threw at me was that they did not commit a breach not complying with the s.78 request as 'the agreement had ended'. It's an interesting interpretation.

 

Last bit of advice - if you get backed into a corner on any particular point, the barrister I was up against just said "I'm just throwing it out there" and moved onto a different but equally pertinent point.

[markwales]

shamrocker so appreciate the benefit of your experience on this. if carters do send a person on Tues.... really think they are struggling..... whole debt including all of the "charges" are 1500 ish. i cant afford .... but will cost them more than what its worth.. ....... up to them.. i still know why we challenged this and stand by it!!