Benefit fraud.

[toffee]

It went to an appeal judge which was in the magistrates court

[Shoelover]

Appeal judges don't sit at magistrates.

Was it an appeal against the overpayment or had you been prosecuted?

[toffee]

It was an appeal over an over payment Id gone through all the appeal stages and this was the final stage ,but I had to attend the magistrate court it wasn't a proper court room was just me the benefits and a judge.I have never been prosecuted for anything,that was one of the things my solicitor asked me today to see if I had any convictions for theft,handling stolen goods ect

[Shoelover]

Not a criminal court then.

Did you mention the delay to the solicitor?

What's the date on the overpayment letter & when did the overpayment run to?

[id6052]

that could be a problem

 

as you should have declared the extra hours/income even if work is on a temporary basis

 

if they have contacted the employer and/or found out your wife started earlier than you declared, you may have committed an offence

[toffee]

They did send her employer a form to fill in but they told me there not filling it in as they don't have to only form she will fill in is ones from inland

[id6052]

ah right, well in which case, the employer may also be prosecuted

[Shoelover]

They did send her employer a form to fill in but they told me there not filling it in as they don't have to only form she will fill in is ones from inland

They are wrong. It's an offence under the social security administration act to to delay, refuse or neglect to supply information to an authorised officer.

[toffee]

Been to my interview they showed me lists of wages from my wife's 2 nd job that was temp,I admited to been naive in not informing them about the temp work,they tried to get me on the rest but I told them I sent the letter.Also told them if I was committing benefit fraud I wouldn't have sent the pay slips in when they asked for them

 

It now goes back to the boss where they will decide what action will be taken and decide if they prosecute me from the start right through or just up until September.

 

The next thing I need to decide is do I appeal the overpayment from September now or do I wait to see what action there going to take,they admitted themselves from September its a grey area really

[estellyn]

The overpayment stays regardless unless you appeal. An appeal in itself doesn't stop a prosecution, but if you win it can affect it

[toffee]

If I appeal and win then it effects the outcome altogether as they can only do me for the previous

[Shoelover]

On what grounds would you appeal?

[toffee]

Well I informed them in September they say they never received it,as my soliceter said they have to prove I never sent it

[sirbob10]

Hi

 

When you sent the letter informing them of the 2nd job did you not notice a reduction in your entitlement of benefit.

 

I would have assumed that you would receive less benefits if you'd had a increase in income. Did you not question why after 2 years your entitlement had remained the same.

 

I know when I send something I receive a new award letter and if not a letter then I can normally tell because my pay,nets have changed and I ring them and ask for a new award to be sent.

 

Sirbob

[estellyn]

If I appeal and win then it effects the outcome altogether as they can only do me for the previous

 

Not sure what this means....

[id6052]

Not sure what this means....

 

i suspect that the OP is suggesting appealing last year's overpayment on the grounds that he notified his wife starting work in the September - therefore overpayment from september onwards is official error and non recoverable

 

this would only leave the overpayment for period prior to the september that he can be sanctioned on

[Shoelover]

Well I informed them in September they say they never received it,as my soliceter said they have to prove I never sent it

 

The overpayment would still be recoverable though.

[toffee]

i suspect that the OP is suggesting appealing last year's overpayment on the grounds that he notified his wife starting work in the September - therefore overpayment from september onwards is official error and non recoverable

 

this would only leave the overpayment for period prior to the september that he can be sanctioned on

 

This is what I mean,my solicitor said to me the other day that I should have appealed it and said I still can appeal it even tho the 28 days are over he said I have upto 13 months to appeal.I hold my hand up and admit I should have told them about the temp work and I wouldn't be in this mess,I'm struggling to find work now and if I get a conviction then that will make in even harder to find work.

 

I just don't no what to do for the best,do I just leave it or do I start the ball rolling or do I wait to find out the outcome of today then if they want to prosecute me for the full lot then put the appeal in

[Shoelover]

Prosecution would not be stopped by appealing, nor would it be made any more likely. The overpayment will be recoverable either way- they will say you could reasonably have known you were being overpaid.

It may will be they only take action on the early part of the overpayment.

[toffee]

Just an update on this it's been weeks now since my interview and I haven't heard a thing they told me a couple of weeks.

 

Now do I ring up and find out what's happening or do I leave it,I'm worried in case they sent a court summons and it's gone missing having visions of seeing my name in the paper

[mikeymack2002]

I am now writing a reply to you as we speak

 

 

Here is a partial response, I am starting to produce a paper on benefit fraud here is a quote from it

 

What is benefit fraud, simply put it is failing to notify a change of circumstances, as to the amount of benefit you are entitled to receive, or just plain fraud from the start. If you commit benefit fraud there are serious consequences that you will/may have to face. You will most certainly have to repay the overpayment you may be prosecuted in Court; you could have your benefits stopped altogether.

You could receive a civil penalty or an administrative penalty

What happens after a benefit fraud investigation?[1]

If there’s evidence you’ve committed fraud, one or more of the following may happen:

• you’re taken to court
  
• you’re asked to pay a penalty (between £350 and £5,000) instead of going to court
  
• your benefits are reduced or stopped
  
• you’re told to pay back the overpaid money
  

 

[1]https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud Accessed 07/05/2015

 

 

[toffee]

Update

 

I have received a caution regarding the above but only for the time I never declared the temp work my wife did which is roughly 5 or 6 months.

 

Now can I appeal the rest of it as its there word against mine really don't want to talk to the solicitor as I may get the advice from members here or do I just it go now

[mikeymack2002]

Since you have received a caution please remember that new rules apply to you. If for any reason you are in the same boat again within a certain period your outcome could be much worse, I will post up that info in the morning for you....

 

 

see here

 

 

Those who accept administrative penalties, cautions or who are convicted of benefit offences may be subject to the loss of benefit rules. Where the rules apply, the claimant may have their benefit payment reduced wholly or in part for a number of weeks.

Different provisions apply to persons accepting administrative penalties or cautions but for those convicted of offences committed wholly after 1 April 2013 The reduction periods will be:

 

• for a first conviction - 13 weeks (previously 4 weeks)
  
• for a second offence committed within 5 years - 26 weeks (previously 13 weeks)
  
• for a third offence committed within 5 years - 3 years (previously 13 weeks)
  
• for a single conviction for a serious or organised benefit or identity fraud (whether for a first or subsequent conviction) - 3 years(new)
  

info from here

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/welfare_rural_and_health_cases/

 

 

The relevant section is "Loss of Benefit following Conviction"

[valeman45]

I am currently going through a tough time with the DWP after I committed benefit fraud some 13 years ago, I am currently unemployed again and for the last 12 years I have been paying the overpayment back at a rate I can afford, then 8 weeks ago I received a letter informing me they were taking £29.60 per week out of my JSA, leaving me with £43.50 to live on per week, I now have to choose between putting money in my electric or eating some days I go without, I have done a mandatory reconsideration due to the financial hardship it will cause and have been told it is not a good enough reason and that they can basically take what they like because of a ministerial statement in November 2014, I am now in such a state I have had to seek help for a bout of depression which for me is very embarrassing.

[sadone]

I agree that is a ridiculous amount to deduct every week. How the hell is someone supposed to survive on that? You won't be surprised to hear it was IDS's idea to change the rules last year.

 

I see the CAB discussed this very issue over here..

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/7657/

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/8038/