discrimination

[jordigirl]

To be honest - I just want to be treated with the respect I deserve, The same respect that is given to the men of the club

 

I have tried to talk and reason with them, but it is like banging your head against a brick wall, they are adamant they are in the right,

 

Maybe just to drag them into the 21 century ( hopefully)

 

I would be willing to take this as far as I could though

 

thanks again for all the help

[jordigirl]

I have heard the equality act 2010 does not apply to all private working mens clubs and some can discriminate against women ( disgraceful i know)

How would I go about bringing a case against them, What would it cost, and what would my chances be of winning.

 

thanks again

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Where did you hear that about private working men's clubs please?

 

HB

[SabreSheep]

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mishcon.com%2Fassets%2Fmanaged%2Fdocs%2Fdownloads%2Fdoc_2412%2FBBA.pdf&ei=nRXvVI-1KM3taKewgpgK&usg=AFQjCNFv7xYFIpy4Lfsdqug-Cn8xu1UBXA&bvm=bv.86956481,d.d2s

[fletch70]

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mishcon.com%2Fassets%2Fmanaged%2Fdocs%2Fdownloads%2Fdoc_2412%2FBBA.pdf&ei=nRXvVI-1KM3taKewgpgK&usg=AFQjCNFv7xYFIpy4Lfsdqug-Cn8xu1UBXA&bvm=bv.86956481,d.d2s

 

Erm, what's that got to do with the price of fish?

[jordigirl]

the equality commission told me honeybee

 

some sort of grey area !!!

[honeybee13]

Really? That's disappointing. Let's see what the brains here think.

 

HB

[jordigirl]

I can't really find anything about private clubs that can discriminate, thats why I asked on here,

 

I would have took it as a association with more than 25 members and formal rules for joining, which would make it part of the equality act.

 

But also to be honest, I am sure this club makes there rules up as it goes along,

They have broke that many

[honeybee13]

You're sure that you still want to be a member there? I think if a club upset me this much, I'd look for somewhere else to go.

 

HB

[jordigirl]

According to them I am not a member anyway lol

 

Unless I can get the rules changed, I will not set foot in the place again, but if they can do it to me they will always get away with it

In my opinion the only reason they won't change is it will effect there fiddle

 

I really want to take this further, but I would need to be sure I could win

 

hopefully I will get there

thanks honeybee

[Eversir]

Based on what you say then, it may be prudent to set out your complaint in writing to the club. Refer to the Equality Act (specific breaches) and provide specific examples of lawful/unlawful discrimination from those documents listed previously. They may just need a bit of educating, but either way you will know where you stand.

 

Failing that, it's really upto you whether to take it further. For a money claim you'd have to show to a judge, on the balance of probabilities, that the club was in breach of the Equality Act and have failed to remedy it (this is where your written letter of complaint comes in). A breach is a breach, but you'd need to carefully consider whether you have enough evidence to show it has happened.

 

Before any of that, you'd also have to work out what your losses are. How much is your membership? You could maybe think about claiming £200-300 for distress as a ballpark figure. No one can ever guarantee a win regardless of how strong your case is. But if you can show unlawful discrimination has occured, it's a pretty strong case.

[SabreSheep]

The link i posted is a guide regarding associations/club s etc nd how the equality act impacts on them.

 

Read through it, you might find the information you need to back your ocmplaint.

 

If not, cook some chips and have it with the fish.

[fletch70]

The link i posted is a guide regarding associations/club s etc nd how the equality act impacts on them.

 

Read through it, you might find the information you need to back your ocmplaint.

 

If not, cook some chips and have it with the fish.

 

For me the link comes up as commentary on Carey HSBC

[SabreSheep]

Whoops.

See this is why men shouldnt multitask

[jordigirl]

I can't write a letter to the club, They don't read women's letter

 

Discrimination has definately occurred, but unless I can prove membership, they are allowed to do it.

As I said in an earlier post, a man would have got a letter, to appear before the committee and had a fair hearing and a chance to appeal.

 

I have read somewhere they would need to justify why the equality act does not apply to them. will try and find the article again

 

thanks

[Eversir]

You can write the letter, but whether they reply is up to them Send it recorded if you do decide to send one.

 

If you have a membership card (your "lady card") and have copies of documentation you signed - IMO that should be enough to show you are a member. Albeit one at a serious disadvantage to male members.

 

And remember: they can't discriminate against guests either, should it be decided by a court that you are not a member.

 

You must not do something to a member, associate member or guest (including a prospective member or guest) which has (or would have) a worse impact on them and on other people who share a particular protected characteristic than on people who do not share that characteristic. Unless you can show that what you have done is objectively justified, this will be what is called indirect discrimination. ‘Doing something’ can include making a decision, or applying a rule or way of doing things.

 

Source: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/s...b__society.pdf (Page 15)

 

As it stands, it boils-down to three options:

 

1) Do nothing and accept the behaviour.

2) Vote with your feet - don't go back.

3) Take further action, whether via complaint or court, or both.

 

There is not really a lot more to add. Check previous posts. If they didn't want female members/guests, then the lawful solution would be to restrict membership to males and not allow guests at all. Not allow both and treat you with contempt.

[steampowered]

I think it would be lawful for them to restrict females from becoming members and entering the premises, but I do not think they can legally have a two-tier membership system where ladies are treated worse than men.

 

If you wanted to take this further, the nuclear option would be to issue a claim in the county court. I think the legal basis for this would be s29 and s114 of the Equality Act 2010. You should phrase this as a claim for a fixed sum of money in order to ensure that the claim is allocated to the small claims track (which vastly reduces the chance of being ordered to pay the club's legal costs if you lose).

 

As this is presumably an unincorporated club rather than a company or a registered charity, you would need to claim against the committee members responsible for the discrimination personally.

 

You would claim for any provable financial loss you have suffered (it doesn't sound like there is anything), plus injury to feelings. There are guidelines for this known as the 'Vento guidelines' which have a low, middle and high bracket. The low bracket which ranges from £700 to £7000. I think this case is at the bottom of the low bracket.

 

You would be expected to make every effort to get the club to treat you properly first. Before issuing a claim you would be expected write a formal 'letter before action' setting out what you want them to do, and explaining that you will bring court action for gender discrimination if they do not address the issue.

[jordigirl]

The committee , says its restricted to male members only, we are classed as lady card holders. I always thought we were female members,( not full members)

 

I think its unincorperated , definately unaffliated.

 

The club was registered with companies house in 2010 (I came across this by accident) but has actually been around since early 1970's maybe earlier, if this makes any difference

 

I will write a letter of complaint see where that gets me

 

thanks again

[jordigirl]

Club

 

An organization composed of people who voluntarily meet on a regular basis for a mutual purpose other than educational, religious, charitable, or financial pursuits. A club is any kind of group that has members who meet for a social, literary, or political purpose, such as health clubs, country clubs, book clubs, and women's associations. The term club is not a legal term per se, but a group that organizes itself as a club must comply with any laws governing its organization and otherwise be cognizant of the legal ramifications in undertaking to organize itself in this manner.

Various types of clubs exist. An incorporated members' club is composed of a group of individuals who each contribute to the club's funds, which are used to pay the expenses of conducting the society. An unincorporated proprietary club is one whose proprietor owns the property and funds and conducts the club to attempt to make a profit. The members are entitled to use the premises and property in exchange for the payment of entrance fees and subscriptions to the proprietor as well as any additional rights and privileges provided in their contractual agreement.

An incorporated club is generally governed by state statute. Many statutes provide for the incorporation of clubs, and the statutory requirements must be strictly observed. A statute may require that an application for incorporation state the purposes of the club in a definitive manner to help the court determine whether the objective of the club is legal. In addition, the application should state the manner in which club revenues are to be provided and the basis upon which an individual may become a member of the club.

A club's certificate of incorporation should indicate pecuniary means (i.e., funds, money, property), describe the objective of the club, and specify a place of business or office. If a club is unincorporated, the rules that govern associations apply.

Voluntary clubs are not partnerships, since the members do not join them for profit-making purposes and, unlike partners, are not responsible for the acts of each other. If a club's members do unite for a commercial venture, however, this association would constitute a partnership. In such cases, a club might be required to comply with state law governing partnerships.

 

 

would the highlighted part apply??

[Eversir]

You want to be following the legal definition as per the Equality Act in this document:

 

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/documents/EqualityAct/service_providers_association__club__society.pdf

[steampowered]

The club was registered with companies house in 2010 (I came across this by accident) but has actually been around since early 1970's maybe earlier, if this makes any difference

Yes, this makes a difference. If the club is an incorporated company or a limited liability partnership registered on Companies House, then you would need to sue that entity as it has separate legal personality from its members. An unincorporated association does not have separate legal personality from its members.

[jordigirl]

xxxxxxxxxx Social Club nd INSTITUTE LIMITED was founded on 2010-07-27 and has its registered office in . The organisation's status is listed as "Active". xxxxxxxxxx Social Club And Institute Limited is a Industrial and Provident Society registered in with Companies House and the accounts submission requirement is categorised as NO ACCOUNTS FILED

 

am lost to what you are meaning steampowered

 

this help any ???

[jordigirl]

On reply to eversir's post, they can't discriminate against guests the problem is

 

I am not a member

I am not an associate member:|

I am not a guest

 

I am a lady card holder ( if someone could explain what this is and what catagory it comes under)

 

please

[Eversir]

By the legal definition, you are either a member (quite likely) or if not, a guest.

 

It is true you could be neither if you never attended the club, but that is not the case.

 

The argument is whether your "lady card" can be classed as membership. There is a strong argument that the club, in fact, operates a two tier membership system based on gender. Failing that, at the very least you could be deemed a guest.

 

In either instance, the club will have discriminated unlawfully.

 

Steampowered's advice in post #42 goes into detail about what you can do if you want to take it further

[jordigirl]

Thanks again for the brilliant advice - I will draft a letter before action this weekend

 

Will post it on here for your opinions before I send it,

 

thanks again