Help fighting a premier parking solutions PCN

[oxon-nick]

Good Morning to all,

 

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. Apologies if it is in the wrong section (Please advise)

 

On the 27/11/2014 I parked in a PPS ( premierparkingsolutions ) controlled car park. The car park in questions is Station Road, Didcot, Oxfordshire.

 

The car park was ram packed, a couple of parking bays were flooded to the point no one could park in them. So I decided to park on the end of a row which still allowed plenty of room for other motorists to get around the car park (see attached pictures)

 

I parked up, Paid my ticket, Placed it in the window and headed into London.

 

I returned to my car later that day and noticed a "Parking Charge Notice" from PPS (Premier Parking Solutions) stating "Not parked in allocated Bay". I did some initial research and sent the follow appeals email to them.

 

"Reference Number: xxxxxxx (removed for the sake of this forum)

Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx (removed for the sake of this forum)

 

 

The reason I have not supplied my contact name or address is due to the fact members of an accredited trade association can access DVLA data, while non-members can't. To avoid my details being obtained by a non accredited trade association I have opted not to provide these to you at this point.

 

 

 

To Whom it may concern,

 

I am writing to you today to express my concern over the parking charge notice I received on my car upon returning to it after spending the day in London. I list below a series of pointers that I wish you to address and clear up as part of your notice and also to provide evidence as to why I think I was not in the wrong.

 

 

1. First of all, I see the ticket I received states it is a "Parking Charge Notice" which upon carrying out my own research for advise I see a Parking Charge Notice is not a "fine" and cannot be imposed, unlike a Penalty Charge Notices. - Please confirm this is the case and in fact true... If I don't pay then legally you cannot pursue it further!
   
2. The reason I had parked where I did was due to the fact your car park had sections that were flooded which was impossible for cars to park in at least 2 parking bays that I witnessed. This resulted in unusable parking spaces which had clearly not been maintained to a suitable standard allowing cars to park.
   
3. I along with other members of the public found space to park at the end of the rows of cars where in fairness you could easily mark out another 1 if not 2 parking spots. The fact you had not marked these areas with diagonal white lines (as you have used in other areas of the car park) gave the impression it was okay to park there.
   
4. I also think the charge amount if unfair due to the fact where I parked did not hinder the flow of traffic in and out of the car park along with the fact I had paid for 24 hrs of parking...
    
   To conclude in my appeal... I would like you to answer all my queries above and to wrap up my case... I believe the inadequate maintenance of the car park (flooding not dealt with) and poor visual markings used in some areas of the car park but not others. Along with the fact I did not hinder the flow or parking for other users of the car park at all.
    
   I look forward to hearing your response."
    
   So I then waited and received the following reply by email:
    
   " 11 December 2014
    
   Dear Sir/Madam,
    
   Re: Parking Charge Notice Number XXXXXX (Vehicle: XXXXXXX)
   Site: Station Road, Didcot Issue date: 27/11/2014
    
   Thank you for your appeal which we will respond to below. Firstly, however, you should be aware that as you have not given us a full serviceable address for the driver of the vehicle we will be making a request to the DVLA for details of the vehicle keeper so that we can establish the identity of the driver according to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act.
   Further to your email of appeal received on 03/12/2014 regarding the above parking charge, I have now
   had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are below.
   Whilst we appreciate and sympathise with your situation, we are unable to take mitigating circumstances into account. Parking at this site is only for vehicles that are parked in accordance with the site instructions, as detailed on signage on site. This signage is clear, in excess of industry standards and clearly details any charges that may be imposed should these restrictions be contravened. The amount sought as the parking charge notice is a term of the contract.
   The vehicle was not parked in an allocated bay, which is contrary to the conditions of parking. Please
   see the attached photographs, which show that your vehicle was not parked correctly at the site. I
   therefore uphold our operative’s decision to issue this parking charge notice. It is your responsibility to
   make sure you adhere to all the rules and regulations when at this site, including parking correctly in a
   marked bay. If you do not park correctly you can obstruct the other customers from parking at this site
   and prevent them from parking correctly themselves.
   We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. Please forward a payment of £60 to reach us by 25/12/2014 or £100 to reach us by 08/01/2015 in order to avoid Debt Recovery proceedings; incurring additional costs. Please be aware that when appealing any further the charge will not be placed on hold.
   Payments can be made by cheque or postal order - payable to PPS Ltd, or on our website -
   If your appeal is unsuccessful, you have the opportunity to go to an Independent Appeals Service known as POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals).
   Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the
   discounted rate of £60, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to
   pay the full amount of £100.
   If you appeal to POPLA then please use the accompanying form, or if your appeal has been submitted
   electronically please visit popla for further information. However, if your appeal is dismissed
   by POPLA, we will use their adjudication in future Court proceedings which may commence without delay and further costs may be added. (code removed) is your designated POPLA code.
   If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery
   procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
   NB: If, as the keeper of the vehicle, you do not give the details about the driver or hirer, or if the driver or
   hirer refuses to acknowledge their liability, you may be liable to pay any unpaid charges in accordance
   with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
    
   Yours sincerely,
    
   Mr Oliver Taylor
   Appeals Manager
    
   I was about the pay the £60 until I did a search on "pps.uk.com" and came across this forum... So thought I would lay out the above and get some advise before the 25th comes up when the payment is due.
    
   Any advise greatly received.
    
   Many Thanks and Kind Regards
    
   Nicholas,
   

[oxon-nick]

wow - that was hard work posting that...

 

 

1. Couldn't post the pictures because my post count isn't 10 or above
   
2. Had a load of post's removed welcoming people to the forum, As trying to get post count up to do point 1
   
3. Decided to remove the pictures but then couldn't post links as my post count isn't 10 or above
   
4. Spent ages trying to find all links and removing them
   

[citizenB]

You should be able to post images.. how were you trying to upload them ?

[oxon-nick]

Hi,

 

I did it by clicking on the "attachments" paper clip icon and then uploading them into that and then inserting them into the post.

 

Cheers

 

Nick,

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

I have removed a couple of identifying codes from your post above.

 

Your first mistake was to identify yourself as the driver but this is not fatal.

 

You now need to go through the POPLA appeals service where your defence is likely to be something on the lines of:

 

Inadequate/ confusinf sign post

Genuine Pre Estimate of Loss (GPEoL)

 

 

Have a read of other threads to get the idea whilst waiting for the 'experts' to appear.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

 

I did it by clicking on the "attachments" paper clip icon and then uploading them into that and then inserting them into the post.

 

Cheers

 

Nick,

 

If you convert any images to pdf format then use the upload button, this should allow you to post them.

[JoeyJoeC]

Said it before and I'll say it again. This forum needs a much simplier method of attaching images. Rather than all this opening with paint, editing, saving to PDF... Why not a simple piece of code to open a popup to insert edit and upload images?

 

Write back to them and ask for the POPLA code to allow you to appeal further. Do this in writing and avoid email as they will likely say they didn't receive it. Get free proof of postage from the postoffice. Issuing you with a POPLA code will cost PPS ~£28.

 

Since you paid for the parking, and the parking company suffered no loss, then you do not owe the charge as it is not a genuine pre-estimate of lost (GPEOL). This is what you say to POPLA. You will most likely win at this point alone (Almost everyone does).

[Billy's mate]

You haven't given your name, so they still don't know who the driver is / was. They are allowed to contact the DVLA to obtain the registered keepers details, and this is who they will pursue under the Protection of Freedoms Act if you fail to give them the name and address of the driver. You've now involved yourself in the game. It's a long and drawn out process which you will eventually win, and the guys on here will help you every step of the way. No matter what you write to the parking company, they will reject it anyway. The important thing now is to write back to them and ask them for the all important POPLA reference number. This is time sensitive so do it immediately. Once you get that, we will help you to formulate your appeal to them. Jumping the gun a bit, the flooded car park, confusing signage and the fact that you paid for your parking will ensure that you will win. Others will be along shortly.

[armadillo71]

Are you the RK? And did you sign off your email with your name?

 

Depending on the answers to the above, I would suggest no more contact with PPS.

 

Make them pay for keeper details and issue a Notice To Keeper ,then we can go from there.

[oxon-nick]

Thank you all for the guidance so far.

 

I did not sign the email off in my name... Though I have just noticed my email address contains my last name and if they do a DVLA lookup can the put 2 and 2 together?

 

 

As part of the failed claim with pps they provided me with my designated POPLA code.

 

So what would my next step be?

 

Many Thanks for the help so far.

[armadillo71]

You have a POPLA code? That surprises me...

 

Check it is valid here;

 

 

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

 

 

If it is, then the charge will get cancelled at POPLA with the correctly worded appeal.

[renegadeimp]

Said it before and I'll say it again. This forum needs a much simplier method of attaching images. Rather than all this opening with paint, editing, saving to PDF... Why not a simple piece of code to open a popup to insert edit and upload images?

 

Write back to them and ask for the POPLA code to allow you to appeal further. Do this in writing and avoid email as they will likely say they didn't receive it. Get free proof of postage from the postoffice. Issuing you with a POPLA code will cost PPS ~£28.

 

Since you paid for the parking, and the parking company suffered no loss, then you do not owe the charge as it is not a genuine pre-estimate of lost (GPEOL). This is what you say to POPLA. You will most likely win at this point alone (Almost everyone does).

 

Attaching images is very simple. If you have been a member and contributed long enough.

[oxon-nick]

You have a POPLA code? That surprises me...

 

Check it is valid here;

 

 

I had to remove the URL as not enough posts 0_0

 

 

If it is, then the charge will get cancelled at POPLA with the correctly worded appeal.

 

 

I have checked and the following has come out:

 

Code summary

Issuing operator: Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (Code: xxx) - Removed for this forum...

Date code generated: xxx DEC xx xxxx - Removed for this forum...

Code sequence number: xxx - Removed for this forum...

Deadline information

Your appeal deadline is xxx JAN xx xxxx

You have xx day(s) remaining for your appeal to reach POPLA

 

 

I read somewhere that they cannot send me a POPLA code so quickly? - I await your instructions

 

Many Thanks as always

[Billy's mate]

They must send you a POPLA code when they reject your initial appeal. Often, they don't. This costs them money, and is a quiet way of discouraging you from taking the matter further. They don't want you to go to POPLA, they just want you to pay up. This is when even their reduced charge fee begins to look attractive to the un-informed fishes on the end of their hook. They will often disguise the POPLA code as a. " Reference number " , and not make clear what it really is. You now need to write to the parking company requesting the information as above. Of particular importance is the breakdown of their pre-estimate of loss, as this is what will hang them at POPLA. There are time scales to this procedure, and more experienced people than I will be along shortly with further guidance for you.

[armadillo71]

You have a valid POPLA code then.

 

Do NOT contact PPS anymore.

 

Have a read of the successful wins at POPLA here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?405805-PPC-Successes-(No-Questions-please)/page5

 

And see what you come up with...

 

Xmas do beckons, back tomorrow.

[oxon-nick]

Hello All,

 

Thank you for all the advice...

 

What we have established now then is that with my rejection letter then provided me with a valid POPLA code.

 

The Parking Charge notice was issued...

5 days later I emailed my appeal

9 days after I emailed my appeal they sent me a reply upholding the parking charge notice.

 

So within 14days I received my POPLA code... Did I read somewhere they are not allowed to do this?

 

Any advise on what to do next and what to write greatly received.

 

King Regards

[renegadeimp]

Use the code and appeal to popla using the GPEOL defence. That kills anything they try and do. And its cost them money too.

[armadillo71]

Hello All,

 

Thank you for all the advice...

 

What we have established now then is that with my rejection letter then provided me with a valid POPLA code.

 

Good.

The Parking Charge notice was issued...

5 days later I emailed my appeal

9 days after I emailed my appeal they sent me a reply upholding the parking charge notice.

 

So within 14days I received my POPLA code... Did I read somewhere they are not allowed to do this?

 

Where did you read this? A POPLA code means that with the correctly worded appeal to them, the charge will get cancelled.

 

Any advise on what to do next and what to write greatly received.

 

King Regards

 

Have you read the link in post #15?

[oxon-nick]

I followed the link in post #15 and started to read through the other threads that are linked on that page but couldn't make sense of what I need to specifically send.

 

Shifting through 19 threads when not entirely sure what I need to say it proving difficult. Am I missing something stupid here?