Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit overpayment Help!!

[ROSE28454]

Its a long story but I will keep it brief. I have a friend who has had problems with Alcohol to such an extent that his marriage crumbled and he now lives in a rented flat on his own. To his credit he has stopped drinking and is putting his life back together. However he has a problem with Benefits. He is on long term sick with depression and gets ESA. When he left his wife he arranged for his company pension to be paid direct to her to cover part of the mortgage on their house. He did not want to see her in dire straits through his own fault. However when he applied for Incapacity Benefit, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit he did not tell them about the pension. Now he has had a letter saying the Inland Revenue have told the Council that he was getting company pension since at least June 2013 if not before. So they have reworked his benefit and his HB is now halved and he has to pay back the overpayment at £10.00 per week. However he will no longer get CTB so now as a bill for 18 months Council Tax to pay although the letter does not say how long he has to pay this.

 

He now realises he has to tell them about the pension from when he 1st claimed ( 2008 I think ) and they will obviously rework the benefit and he will have arrears to pay back whilst still receiving a smaller amount of HB. But I think the Council Tax arrears will be chased more vigourously by them. Also not sure what other action they might take against him

He was a long term alcoholic and besides depression has high blood pressure and has attempted suicide on more than one occasion and the pressure of this may push him that way again.

 

When he told me about this I did a Benefit Check and it seems that he may have been entitled to the pension and ESA at same time due to rules about minimum monies to live on but when I did the check it seems that he would probable be better off claiming pension credit as that would mean less income but he would get full HB and CTB and it would mean ATOS ( or whoever they are now) would not need to see him and he could just get PC until retirement in 2016.

 

So the question is firstly what does he tell the council about the pension ( I realises he has to tell them ) as he does not want to be prosecuted for fraud whilst realising he will have to pay overpayment back.

Secondly is it easy to go from ESA to PC and how would he do this

 

Many thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I expect the forum guys will be along over the course of the day with advice for you.

 

I have one question please. You mention your friend claiming pension credit. How old is he?

 

HB

[ROSE28454]

Hello there. I expect the forum guys will be along over the course of the day with advice for you.

 

I have one question please. You mention your friend claiming pension credit. How old is he?

 

HB

 

 

He is 63.

[honeybee13]

Thank you.

 

As you may know already, it's possible to claim pension credit from age 62, so he may be old enough. Here's a link from AgeUK that tells you more.

 

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/pension-credit/what-is-pension-credit/

 

HB

[ROSE28454]

Thank you.

 

As you may know already, it's possible to claim pension credit from age 62, so he may be old enough. Here's a link from AgeUK that tells you more.

 

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-benefits/pension-credit/what-is-pension-credit/

 

HB

 

Thanks will show him that

[ROSE28454]

He has an appt with CAB today and has got p60 info for the last 6 years from his pension providers. I did a benefit check for him and even taking into account his pension he is still entitled to some HB. I also did the calculations with Pension Credit and he would be slightly better off. Now question is does he come off ESA now or wait till March ( when I think he it will be discontinued) or does he just claim PC and move over next year to higher rate. He is getting very nervuous about it all as he is worried they will take him to court.

[ROSE28454]

Awaiting a reply from CAB office about how to proceed. Lady was very helpful but told him not to contact HB office till she got advice for him to follow.

[ROSE28454]

CAB Lady emailed on Thursday ad told him to just send the papers from his pension people and do nothing else. He sent it yesterday under Recorded Delivery. Well today he got a letter from the council asking him to come in for an interview under caution concerning the overpayment. I phoned on his behalf and explained this and explained about his depression and anxiety issue. the chap said he would call back on Tuesday to confirm if papers have been received and was really nice and advised that I may be able to attend with him when the interview is scheduled. However I have read on line that he may need a solicitor. Is that true??

[ROSE28454]

Council chap called yesterday and said that he has now seen pension papers and definitely needs to interview my friend. He asked if he needed legal advice and told him the cab had sent a couple of local solicitor's names and the council chap asked who they were and recommended one. So my friend said he would seek advice and then call to arrange the interview. He managed to get hold of solicitor who is experienced in this type of work and said he would ring today to go through a form to see if he qualifies for legal aid and even if not he would give him a price.

My friend realises how serious this all is but wonders as he has health problems etc if the council will automitacally prosecute or would they maybe just fine him. He realises he had to pay back the overpayment.

Also it transpires he might be better off on PC instead of ESA but is worried about being without money whilst he cancels one and applies for another. Anyone had any experience of this ?

[Mr.P]

My friend realises how serious this all is but wonders as he has health problems etc if the council will automatically prosecute or would they maybe just fine him.

 

It is difficult to say if the council would prosecute for fraud. It depends very much on their own internal guidelines, how much the overpayment(s) totalled, if it was 'in the public interest', and if they could prove intent. Two points in his favour are that he informed the council of the situation and the health issues. I'm afraid it is a case of waiting to see what the council has to say about it.

[ROSE28454]

He went to the solicitor today to fill in Legal Aid forms. Meeting is set for Tuesday at 10 am and he is meeting solicitor 30 mins before. He took most of the papers with him and the lady copied them all and said it would give solicitor a head start as he could read up on them before the meeting. Apparently he is experienced in this sort of work and he had another lady with much larger overpayment with health problems and he managed to get her off with no further action. My friend realises he has to pay it back but the worry of what may happen is really worrying him.

The council sent him a red reminder for the 2013/2014 bill that he needs to pay by 3.12 or they will take him to court. It is for over £600 which he does not have. it appears the HB overpayment will be taken back at the rate of £10.00 per week from his remaining benefit. So I presume this does not apply to the Council Tax. The secretary today took a copy of that aswell as she said the solicitor would be very interested in it.

[Mr.P]

Council tax and housing benefit are two completely different issues. I would recommend he pays a visit to the council on Monday and try to negotiate a payment plan before court proceedings start. If the council goes down the route of obtaining a Liability Order, it could quickly escalate in to a very expensive exercise for your friend, especially if/when bailiffs get involved.

 

If you could accompany him to provide moral support, it may be worth while playing the "vulnerable adult" card. His mental health issues may be sufficient to put a halt to the council's legal action if a repayment plan can be arranged for the CT.

[ROSE28454]

Council tax and housing benefit are two completely different issues. I would recommend he pays a visit to the council on Monday and try to negotiate a payment plan before court proceedings start. If the council goes down the route of obtaining a Liability Order, it could quickly escalate in to a very expensive exercise for your friend, especially if/when bailiffs get involved.

 

If you could accompany him to provide moral support, it may be worth while playing the "vulnerable adult" card. His mental health issues may be sufficient to put a halt to the council's legal action if a repayment plan can be arranged for the CT.

 

Hi

Thanks for that. Will suggest he contacts them on Monday and I am happy to go with him. He has an appt to see his doctor next wednesday so can talk to her too.

[ROSE28454]

Well he attended and it did not go well. He said he was giving his pension to his wife but it has since transpired she is on carers allowance and income support so they are now investigating her, But she was actually paying his rent every month it transpires. I am slightly disappointed as although he suffers from depression he is now letting his wife go through it all aswell when he should just tell them he actually was having the money all along. She has been told to expect an Interview under caution aswell but she is also someone I know and she contacted me for advice yesterday. The investigating officer told her to send in a bank statement showing the pension whixh she did and at the same time said you can contact me if you want to. She thinks he was maybe aware of what was going on and maybe expexted a statement that showed the rent being paid. So she is thinking of sendng him a statement showing the rent being paid from her account but he is unable to speak to her as he is investigating her.

So should she provide more evidence ( and drop her husband in it ) or wait for the interview under caution. She is very stressed and was crying when she called me. She just wants to know what is happening. The husbands benefit has been cut already.

[ROSE28454]

Its all rumbling on and they have not heard anything. He went to dr yesterday and she is writing a letter for him to give council concerning his mental state when he first claimed and now. She said he may well have had a problem with his memory as he was drying out at the time. Friends wife has just called to say she has had an email to say the interview will be in the New Year as DWP need to be present aswell as council officer. She still wonders if she should send in statements showing the rent being paid or wait for the interview.

Also his council tax bill for the last 6 years ( about £5000.00 ) is on hold and needs to be dealt with asap. He can only afford about £25.00 per week towards it and wonders if they will accept that. It has not gone to court for Liability Order ( until next week) so he is wondering what to do?