Sacked on the spot, no reasons no notice no hearing *SETTLED*

[hhh_88873]

There was nothing in writing about today. No warning, nothing.

 

They offered me a full time 40 hour contract and I refused it as it treated me less favourably than other employees doing the exact same job.

 

So despite my doing the job full time on the contract that they offered me since April they then busted me down to just 7 shifts this month, not including 10 days of holidays that I've already booked but am pretty certain they won't honour.

[hhh_88873]

I still have the contracts that he signed, and emails from hi saying due to my refusal that I would be returning to part time and covering shifts.

[Emmzzi]

Looks to me like you were a casual worker and refused to go on contract. I can't see any case here.

 

Which is the same advice you got on your last thread.

[hhh_88873]

Except they've been using the terms on my contract that were still under discussion for everything else. I've not been a casual worker at all. I've always had a minimum of 16 hours a week which was outlined to me from the outset, they've just refused to give me a contract until I seriously kicked off over it. And when they tried to offer me lesser terms they're reasoning to me was because I was younger than everyone else and had only been there 2 years and hadn't earned those conditions. That not withstanding, my point is surely you can't just dismiss an employee without a word, or any kind of investigation as to what I'm meant to have done

[Emmzzi]

A casual worker with no contract? Yes. A non casual worker who has been on contract since April? Yes.

 

 

You can test it in a court if you wish but I think it'd be a waste of effort. I'd at most go to small claims for outstanding holiday and notice pay.

[hhh_88873]

I've been on contract since October 2012, they just didn't fill in the specifics of pay, holiday entitlement etc. They gave me a contract but I asked them to take it back and fill in the sections regarding pay, holiday etc as none of that was filled in.

[Emmzzi]

You might have been casual, you might have been permanent. What can you prove?

 

Please read other threads on the e.t. process. Takes months, costs money, creates stress, seldom renders justice. You might get a couple of months wages out of it, if you have a strong case - and you are light on evidence, whereas your boss has it documented that you don't want his contract.

 

Sorry. It isn't fair, but I think a dose of reality is needed here.

[hhh_88873]

I have it in writing that he's willing to sort the contract issues out, 'I feel we will be able to sort out the outstanding contract issues' that's a quote from his reply to my asking the contract to be adjusted.

 

I also have the fact that I've been doing the job for two years under the exact conditions that he's outlined in his contract, and that the staff handbook and contracts that he's given me outline a very different procedure to the one he followed today

[Emmzzi]

You aren't going to get a 'taking them to the cleaners' result though.

 

I think you should sleep on it. If you have a great case you'll easily find a no win no fee lawyer to take the case. I predict that won't happen, but why not test it out? Maybe there is a paternity discrimination angle. Seems unlikely, but check.

[hhh_88873]

I think the age discrimination line is more likely since he actually said that. Still, I've got to get written reasons of why he's done what he's done and then go through the appeal route before acas will get involved.

[Emmzzi]

ACAS are not that helpful IMHO and certainly not the employees champion. Any legal cover on your house insurance? That's a much better bet.

[hhh_88873]

Don't have house insurance, I'll have to check my car and bike insurance tho

[Emmzzi]

Were you in the union also?

[hhh_88873]

Not in time no. Only sent my application in for them about a fortnight ago

[citizenB]

I have merged the two threads to allow others to see the progression of the story rather than going back and forth between two threads

[Emmzzi]

Seriously, only just joined after 2 years of grief?

 

I think my sympathy just ran out. I'm evil management and even I tell my people to join and am a member!

[hhh_88873]

I joined because I knew things were about to turn crappy. Ihad intended to sort it sooner but the only other union guy in the place took his time to get me the forms etc. I know I should have done it myself but hey, hindsights 20/20

[stevemLS]

Am sympathetic to the situation you are in, although it has to be said this result is precisely what you were warned several times was the potential outcome.

 

I think your efforts are best directed at finding a new job mate.

[becky2585]

If you are absolutely certain that you would have two years service on 5 October then you do now have sufficient service to bring a claim. You actually only need 1 year and 51 weeks' service, as statutory notice is automatically added on to take you up to two years.

 

If you are certain about your dates, then your employer has just unfairly dismissed you.

[hhh_88873]

Yes I'm certain on my dates. I've taken the precaution of having images of every rota I've ever worked

[hhh_88873]

Ok so an update to this case. My legal reps have taken the case. The company who dismissed me have admitted the unfair dismissal. They tried to say I was two days short of the required service but due to their failure to provide me with statutory notice it took me over the required time frame. They have denied age discrimination and haven't really mentioned anything relating to any other paternity issue etc.

 

They made a paltry settlement offer which was refused immediately.

They then increased the offer slightly and this was rejected again. They replied saying that was their final offer and no more discussions would be entered into.

 

 

The certificate to take the case to the full tribunal was then obtained from acas, and obviously acas informed them of the refusal and the application to the full tribunal.

 

Ten minutes before the end of that day the other side rang up and despite their 'absolutely final offer' offered double the increased amount to settle.

 

Again this has been refused as it only equates to about 6 months wages. I instructed my reps to return with an offer to settle at 1 years wages, with the expectation to be knocked down a bit on that offer.

 

So apparently this case was a lot stronger than a lot of folk on here seemed to think.

[steampowered]

Six months' wages would an unusually high award even if you win your case. In most circumstances it would be seen as a very generous settlement offer. You do need to remember that settlement offers can often reflect the strength of your case so much as the cost to the employer of hiring a lawyer to defend it.

 

You may access data on the average amount of ET awards here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/payment-of-employment-tribunal-awards. However, as you only just have 2 years' service and as it seems you did not work many hours, I would expect any award made to you to be on the low end of the scale.

 

If this reaches Tribunal and you win, then on the issue of compensation you will be expected to demonstrate that you are searching for new work. Your compensatory award will only cover the period in which you were searching for work but unable to find it. Six months would be high - three is more usual.

[hhh_88873]

Well as I've instructed my reps, I'm more than happy to take less and win and then utterly destroy the companies rep by taking their actions public through various means than sign a gagging order and settling. Obviously if they make a satisfactory offer then common sense says clearly to take it but right now I haven't received what I think is fair after what they did

[Emmzzi]

Well as I've instructed my reps, I'm more than happy to take less and win and then utterly destroy the companies rep by taking their actions public through various means than sign a gagging order and settling. Obviously if they make a satisfactory offer then common sense says clearly to take it but right now I haven't received what I think is fair after what they did

 

seriouly, unless the MD is planning to assassinate a member of the royal famly, no journalist will care.

 

take the cash and get on with your life.

[steampowered]

Without wishing to sound negative, it is important to go into the Tribunal process with realistic expectations of what you are likely to get.

 

Certainly if you don't feel you have received an offer which is 'fair' then you should hold out. It is very common for 'final offers' to be raised several times in the lead up to Tribunal.

 

However do remember that what is a 'fair' tribunal award is not just a matter of personal opinion, it has an objective flavour based on the Tribunal's legal powers and precedent awards in other cases. Remember that the Tribunal does not not really to 'punish' or 'fine' employers. For unfair dismissal you can only expect to be compensated for the financial loss you have suffered up until the period you could reasonably be expected to find a new job, plus the statutory award (which will be very small in your case). If age discrimination is proved you might get an award for injury to feelings but again I don't think this would be a princely sum - you can get some idea by googling for the vento guidelines.

 

There are several thousand unfair dismissal and discrimination cases each year. You can find the statistics in the link I posted. Very few of these are of interest to the media. This experience must have been very nasty for you, but it is unfortunately not too uncommon - there are many threads in this forum created by people with a similar situation to you.

 

The other thing to mention is that if you settle, you should be able to negotiate a neutral reference as part of the settlement terms. If you take this all the way to Tribunal, the employer does not have to give any reference.