Benefit fraud publicity

[Shoelover]

£27 k is a lot.. But I have seen people go to prison for much less & not go to prison for more.

 

If you have mitigation you need a solicitor to put that across. Maybe not at interview (the investigator will ask you on tape if you want legal rep at the interview & should advise you that if you decide to go it alone and then change your mind then the interview can be suspended for you to seek legal representation). However if you receive a summons I would strongly advise that you get a solicitor then.

[wanton]

National papers AND the news? You probably don't want to give too much information I understand but what had he done to get that?

 

 

 

He owned and ran a very successful local business but was a sleeping partner. His salaried partner fronted the business for him. All of this whilst claiming to be unemployed and needing help with the mortgage interest, council tax and was receiving a means tested benefit. He defrauded both the council and the DWP of just under £17,000 over a period of close to 3 years.

[wanton]

National news has to be either high value or a very very unusual case.

 

It wasn't so much the value, but the way he did it and that he was a professionally qualified individual. An accountant no less!

The headlines made it sound worse than it actually was. 'Local accountant convicted of benefit fraud'!!

[Fludro]

It wasn't so much the value, but the way he did it and that he was a professionally qualified individual. An accountant no less!

The headlines made it sound worse than it actually was. 'Local accountant convicted of benefit fraud'!!

 

Thank you

How is he now? Did he manage to move on with his life or has it affected him? I imagine he is no longer able to work in his profession anymore?

 

I am not a professional, I am middle aged with a minimum wage part time job. If I was younger and healthy I might get through this and be able to start over but I think this might just about finish me.

[dc1960]

Fludro, you are where I was almost exactly two years ago. I hope it won't sound crass to say the difference is that I hadn't committed fraud but the facts remained; following an IUC the DWP proceeded with criminal charges and I had to find a way to survive (which might sound dramatic to anyone who has never been through similar) the two year period from the initial IUC until just a couple of weeks ago when charges were dropped, just a few days prior to Magistrates Court, after my appeals were upheld in full at a tribunal in June. I won't bore you with the whole story, there's still a summary of what happened on here somewhere and you'll read it if you're interested.

 

I knew that if my tribunal hearing didn't proceed before Magistrates Court (and by sheer luck it did) going to court and the prospect of being found guilty was very real indeed and I think I can confidently say I've gone through all the same emotions as yourself. Our personal 'demographics' are very similar too - I'm well into middle age, chronic poor health and, when I was fit enough to work, no career to speak of and a low wage earner. And otherwise, for me personally, not an awful lot in life to feel uplifted about.

 

I'm starting to ramble but all I really wanted to say is don't do what I did which was to spend vast amounts of time and energy, scaring myself witless and becoming emotionally drained by scouring the internet, local news sites, forums, anything, looking for benefit fraud stories and news items. I couldn't stay away from it and not only was it absolutely fruitless (because no two cases and their outcomes are the same) it took me into the depths of depression and anxiety.

 

I'd found myself with a solicitor with virtually no experience of welfare benefit cases because I initially thought all I needed was someone to take care of formalities for me and that was, by far, my biggest mistake and I ignored all the advice that I needed either a specialist solicitor or a welfare benefits rights worker - any kind of mental energy you do have left, use it on seeking one or the other out. Whether fraud has been committed or not, such a person will make a HUGE difference. Don't underestimate it.

[Fludro]

Fludro, you are where I was almost exactly two years ago. I hope it won't sound crass to say the difference is that I hadn't committed fraud but the facts remained; following an IUC the DWP proceeded with criminal charges and I had to find a way to survive (which might sound dramatic to anyone who has never been through similar) the two year period from the initial IUC until just a couple of weeks ago when charges were dropped, just a few days prior to Magistrates Court, after my appeals were upheld in full at a tribunal in June. I won't bore you with the whole story, there's still a summary of what happened on here somewhere and you'll read it if you're interested.

 

I knew that if my tribunal hearing didn't proceed before Magistrates Court (and by sheer luck it did) going to court and the prospect of being found guilty was very real indeed and I think I can confidently say I've gone through all the same emotions as yourself. Our personal 'demographics' are very similar too - I'm well into middle age, chronic poor health and, when I was fit enough to work, no career to speak of and a low wage earner. And otherwise, for me personally, not an awful lot in life to feel uplifted about.

 

I'm starting to ramble but all I really wanted to say is don't do what I did which was to spend vast amounts of time and energy, scaring myself witless and becoming emotionally drained by scouring the internet, local news sites, forums, anything, looking for benefit fraud stories and news items. I couldn't stay away from it and not only was it absolutely fruitless (because no two cases and their outcomes are the same) it took me into the depths of depression and anxiety.

 

I'd found myself with a solicitor with virtually no experience of welfare benefit cases because I initially thought all I needed was someone to take care of formalities for me and that was, by far, my biggest mistake and I ignored all the advice that I needed either a specialist solicitor or a welfare benefits rights worker - any kind of mental energy you do have left, use it on seeking one or the other out. Whether fraud has been committed or not, such a person will make a HUGE difference. Don't underestimate it.

 

Thank you for sharing your story, it must have been extra hard for you knowing you were innocent and trying to fight the charges.

I'm not sure yet if I think I have the energy for it all. I spend a couple of days thinking I will just get on with it and eventually it will all be over and then I go back to thinking oh whats the point I'm finished.

I better hurry up and decide what to do as times a tickin'

 

How is everything for you now? Have things improved for you?

[caro]

Do you know how much they say you've been overpaid? Could it be that had you not had the money your savings would now be below the threshold for claiming (assuming they aren't now)?

[Fludro]

Do you know how much they say you've been overpaid? Could it be that had you not had the money your savings would now be below the threshold for claiming (assuming they aren't now)?

 

..

Edited August 29, 2014 by Fludro

[caro]

To say it will kill you is very dramatic. You'll probably have to pay some money back and might be embarrassed if you are prosecuted and (big) if there is publicity. Those who know you and care for you will understand, and the rest don't matter. It would be a 5 minute wonder until the next it was yesterday's news. Try and keep some perspective.

[wanton]

Thank you

How is he now? Did he manage to move on with his life or has it affected him? I imagine he is no longer able to work in his profession anymore?

 

I am not a professional, I am middle aged with a minimum wage part time job. If I was younger and healthy I might get through this and be able to start over but I think this might just about finish me.

 

 

 

He was completely broken after coming out of prison. His business had folded with his partner clearing out the bank account. The office furniture was sold at auction for non payment of business rates. His ability to work as a qualified accountant ceased (he lost his qualification), His home was repossessed, and what money he did have he had to give it back to the DWP/Council.

 

 

For the past 7 years he has had a few p/t jobs on minimal wage, but the rest have been spent on benefits.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me to learn a few years down the line that he has topped himself or has an addiction to drink or drugs with a few more criminal convictions behind him for theft etc.

 

 

There he was, a guy with a good degree, a qualified chartered accountant and had everything going for him. Look at him now. Personally he has suffered and lost more than he should have. Going to prison is one thing, losing everything else was over the top.

[estellyn]

He was completely broken after coming out of prison. His business had folded with his partner clearing out the bank account. The office furniture was sold at auction for non payment of business rates. His ability to work as a qualified accountant ceased (he lost his qualification), His home was repossessed, and what money he did have he had to give it back to the DWP/Council.

 

 

For the past 7 years he has had a few p/t jobs on minimal wage, but the rest have been spent on benefits.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me to learn a few years down the line that he has topped himself or has an addiction to drink or drugs with a few more criminal convictions behind him for theft etc.

 

 

There he was, a guy with a good degree, a qualified chartered accountant and had everything going for him. Look at him now. Personally he has suffered and lost more than he should have. Going to prison is one thing, losing everything else was over the top.

 

Not exactly a helpful story for this situation, don't you think? Please never work for the samaritans!

[estellyn]

I've known many not be prosecuted, even with high overpayments. Many who were prosecuted, that I knew of didn't go to prison, and a few a knew of did. The ones who did, there was heavy deliberation and planning on their part.

 

But even then, one girl who I met after she came out of prison, had been taught some transferable skills which she had used to get a job.

 

If it's an excess capital issue, how much are we talking about, things may not be as bad as you think they are.

[Fludro]

I've known many not be prosecuted, even with high overpayments. Many who were prosecuted, that I knew of didn't go to prison, and a few a knew of did. The ones who did, there was heavy deliberation and planning on their part.

 

But even then, one girl who I met after she came out of prison, had been taught some transferable skills which she had used to get a job.

 

If it's an excess capital issue, how much are we talking about, things may not be as bad as you think they are.

 

I am curious about the ones who have not been prosecuted, is it because there was not much evidence to proceed or if they were guilty what were the reasons they weren't prosecuted? Also do you know if there are any medical conditions that would make prosecution/court unlikely?

[Fludro]

He was completely broken after coming out of prison. His business had folded with his partner clearing out the bank account. The office furniture was sold at auction for non payment of business rates. His ability to work as a qualified accountant ceased (he lost his qualification), His home was repossessed, and what money he did have he had to give it back to the DWP/Council.

 

 

For the past 7 years he has had a few p/t jobs on minimal wage, but the rest have been spent on benefits.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me to learn a few years down the line that he has topped himself or has an addiction to drink or drugs with a few more criminal convictions behind him for theft etc.

 

 

There he was, a guy with a good degree, a qualified chartered accountant and had everything going for him. Look at him now. Personally he has suffered and lost more than he should have. Going to prison is one thing, losing everything else was over the top.

 

Thank you for sharing and sorry it turned out that way for him.

I imagine the worst too. For a start I will have to pay back all the money so I will be broke. Now that is fair enough and I might get through that bit.

Next thing is my landlord and employer finding out which hardly helps me try to rebuild my life when I have to get new accommodation AND get a new job with a criminal record AND somehow do all that with no money and health issues *sigh*

[Shoelover]

I am curious about the ones who have not been prosecuted, is it because there was not much evidence to proceed or if they were guilty what were the reasons they weren't prosecuted? Also do you know if there are any medical conditions that would make prosecution/court unlikely?

Usually very serious ones, and there would be medical reports provided by their solicitor.

[Fludro]

Usually very serious ones, and there would be medical reports provided by their solicitor.

 

Sorry to keep asking questions but could anyone name a few of the serious conditions that would be considered. I'm clutching at straws I guess but if anyone can give some specific examples I would be very grateful.

[honeybee13]

Are you able to tell us what your health issues are please? That way people will be able to give you an idea whether they would be considered.

 

And do you have documentation that would show this?

 

HB

[Fludro]

Are you able to tell us what your health issues are please? That way people will be able to give you an idea whether they would be considered.

 

And do you have documentation that would show this?

 

HB

 

Well my main problem that is concerning me is that I have a rare life threatening disorder of the adrenal glands (Addison's Disease). This is the reason I have an obsession with avoiding chronic exposure to stress. I have to take medication every day not just to stay well but to stay alive. I also have an injection kit, medic alert, medical exemption certificate, and a letter from the doctors I carry on my person incase I am found unconscious instructing the ambulance/hospital.

Saying that, I have managed to stay reasonably well with only a few funny spells. I have all the documentation yes, been through all the tests at hospital. The doctor who did my tests was very excited as he had never done a dynamic endocrine test before lol.

Anyway I might be ok but the worry is there which I why I have become obsessed with the stress of court and especially if it is in the papers I will probably need extra medication just to go the shops.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Fludro

[estellyn]

as I said, what was your savings level - you may be worrying over nothing.

[BazzaS]

Well my main problem that is concerning me is that I have a rare life threatening disorder of the adrenal glands (Addison's Disease). This is the reason I have an obsession with avoiding chronic exposure to stress. I have to take medication every day not just to stay well but to stay alive. I also have an injection kit, medic alert, medical exemption certificate, and a letter from the doctors I carry on my person incase I am found unconscious instructing the ambulance/hospital.

Saying that, I have managed to stay reasonably well with only a few funny spells. I have all the documentation yes, been through all the tests at hospital. The doctor who did my tests was very excited as he had never done a dynamic endocrine test before lol.

Anyway I might be ok but the worry is there which I why I have become obsessed with the stress of court and especially if it is in the papers I will probably need extra medication just to go the shops.

 

Addison's disease isn't so rare as to be that noteworthy.

 

It IS life threatening .... But only if undiagnosed or untreated.

 

Were you to suffer an "Addisonian Crisis" (& let us hope you don't!) then it would be treatable, and you would likely be given the steroid replacement even if Addisonian crisis was only a possible diagnosis & they continued to look for other causes too

(If they consider an Addisonian crisis to be a possibility you treat for it, even if you are planning on getting a serum cortisol level to confirm the diagnosis)

 

While it might be a factor in influencing any decision regarding prosecution it is by no means the only factor ; no one would suggest "can't prosecute anyone with Addison's - they get carte blanch"!

[Fludro]

I have already been diagnosed. Crisis occurs in diagnosed people all the time over something as simple as vomiting. I don't want it to be an excuse and I'm not trying to get out of anything, I'm just hoping the ongoing stress will not affect my health as much as I am worrying it will.

[fletch70]

Fludro

 

May I give you a few bits of experience and some advice

I can not comment about the IUC and I do not even know at one point you can avail of the duty solicitor. All I can say is , as soon as you are allowed to have the duty solicitor there then do so and follow their advice . Please though be honest with them .

 

You say that you did defraud the council and that you still have some or all of the money. If you are going to admit the fraud then an immediate no strings offer to repay the money (by affordable installments if necessary) will help you in many ways , even should it get to court.

 

If it goes to court it really will depend on how busy the paper is but trust me it is not the end of the world if your name appears in a local paper following a conviction. I really should know as it happened to me. Only one person was upset with me because he was under the impression I was not guilty and he felt I had lied to him . " years on we are still friends. Mine was a crown court case

 

When it comes to what sentence you may get , well it is all pretty standardised these days . There is a starting point and then you get aggravating and mitigating factors . Aggravating may be things such as did you hold a position of authority, did you use the money to live the high life, mitigating may be things such as have you repaid it, what was the money spent on , for example was t essentials or do you still have it. Of course any past convictions will be taken into account . If you plead guilty at the first available opportunity there is an automatic 1/3rd reduction.

That does not mean plead guilty on the first appearance in court as you have the option of not entering a plea but the first plea you enter is not guilty.

 

I believe 20K is one of the threshold limits for severity and 50K another.

 

Prison is left as a last resort and judges often try to provide help and support to the person as part of the punishment , especially for older 1st time offenders who are clearly in a bad place.

 

If you qualify for legal aid then get your solicitor to get a letter from your GP, the cost will be paid by legal aid.

 

I urge you to see your GP .

 

Finally, how do you eat an elephant......one bite at a time. Try not to worry and just deal with each step, not what ifs.

I can not accept PM's but I would be happy to help in any way I can, post up if you need

[fletch70]

If your "offence" occured soon after your diagnosis , this needs to be made clear. You state of mind may have been affected and could be used in mitigation

[Fludro]

Thanks Fletch you're very kind. xxx

[Fludro]

If your "offence" occured soon after your diagnosis , this needs to be made clear. You state of mind may have been affected and could be used in mitigation

 

Offence began prior to diagnosis. Oh boy I was not well and I really thought I was dying. Was just looking at a photo of me around that time and I look like an orange skeleton.