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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Robinsons Way [HPH2 ltd]- fake payment - old Cap1 debt - help


reverof
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Hi all,

 

After hearing nothing for sometime, noticed

 

I received a letter (attached) for a Statute Barred debt from over 7 years ago from Robinson way saying

"Thank you for your payment, which leaves the balance as stated above.

We have agreed with you to pay your account by installments."

 

This has amazed me as I have not spoken to anyone let alone made ANY payment to them.

 

How do I go about making sure they are not trying to set me up ,

 

do i send the Statute Barred letter to data controller or do I need to adjust it

and add something in to request the alleged payment information (bank account etc)

 

Also noticed at bottom it says its gone to Hoist Group and Robinson Way are managing account ,

maybe Hoist Group have lied and said they agreed/spoke to me ?

 

This is totally fake and I would not/will not ring them ever so wanted to make sure I send the right letter to them.

This cant be legal surely for them to make up an agreement?

 

Thanks again in advance for all your help.

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Write to them,

do not phone,

ask when and what time the payment was made,

who made the payment,

how the payment was made and

where the payment was made.

 

 

it will be interesting to see what they come back with. send by recorded so that you can see they have received it.

 

if you can upload the letter in pdf format, the image is too small to read.

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Thank you for your reply ,

 

Yes I would/have never phoned them as do not trust any of them.

 

 

I can draw up a letter asking those questions ans put the line about not acknowledging the debt

however do you think it would be best to combine with the statute barred letter to data controller,

requesting them to cease action on the SB debt etc ?

 

Kills 2 birds with 1 stone or should I firstly ask about payment details as you said?

 

Thanks again

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Thank you , I am attaching another letter came around same-time from Hoist , shows 2 payments made within the same month - who on earth would do that ?!

 

Will get letter sent out and clearly state I do not acknowledge debt and its SB. Plus will include a section on alleged payments made and again state that I am concerned as it is potential fraud.

 

Ill send it to both Robinson and Hoist as on the letters it shows 2 different addresses , Manchester and Jersey in small print at bottom for Hoist.

 

Thanks again for the help will update if/when I hear back.

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Letters about SB and proof for rogue payments, have been sent to both Robinson Way and Hoist, have kept record of it all and sent tracked so hopefully they should stop their bogus claims.

 

Will update when/if I hear back and hope if anyone else gets anything like this this thread helps them too.

 

Thanks for all your help

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HPH2, hoist & robbers are all the same company

 

 

was this an overseas capital one card?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dxt

 

Nope UK card from years ago approx £2k total.

 

Im guessing they have made up a fake claim so they can say I agreed to pay back and then did not .

 

The 2 payments on the Hoist letter I attached 2nd show that I made 2 payments in the same month May 2014 ?

 

Never spoke with them and never made any offers/payments.

 

If I ever have to I would only do it in writing and why on earth would I pay twice in same month

= definatly a total lie, maybe to get me to ring in then they can say I agreed over phone or something.

 

Yeah noticed they have same address at top of letters,

however Hoist have a Jersey address and different company number so sent them both the same letter today

 

Will update when/if I hear back and thanks again for the help

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Once statute barred, it cannot become live again even if it was you who made a payment. You cannot claim payments back however, but they cannot 'un' statute bar it.

 

 

Have you checked your bank accounts etc to make sure they haven't taken it somehow ?

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Hi Conniff

 

Just checked now just in-case and there is nothing there on those dates they mention on letter 2 form Hoist. Have checked both my accounts and nothing mentioned so its totally made up. Must be a new tactic to get people to call in ?

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It's not new, it's usually with just a pound, there are a lot of reports in the forums of them, (and others), trying it on.

 

As it is statute barred, send them the letter saying it is barred and you will not be paying and they must leave you alone.

You don't have to send the letter, but they will probably continue to bug you if you don't.

Edited by Conniff
corrected typo
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Thanks for the advice, have sent letters to both addresses saying statue barred ( thanks to BRIGADIER2JCS from 2 years ago who helped with template for SB letter previously)

 

I added in a part saying they need to provide the proof letsgetitsorted mentioned : time, location, method and who made the alleged payments as I have never agreed to repayment plan or made a payment on a debt i do not acknowledge.

 

Thanks again for the help and will update if/when I hear from them

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Are you absolutely sure it is statute barred, they may be fishing.

 

I didn't ask because it says 7 years, but it is a very pertinent question also, are you sure these are your accounts ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE : 28th July

 

Well I have had a response and I am gobsmacked!

 

They say that an "authorized representative" for me made payment to them and therefore the debt is not statue barred !

 

They then say they have attached a statement that shows payments totaling approx £100 and all the lines on the statement say they are "Cash Paid To Us" , all payments are this year and the real obvious lie is that they claim the last payment made was on the 22nd July 2014 - this is the day AFTER they received my Letter

 

I am totally amazed they are trying to say its not statue barred and now lieing totally about payments , no reference numbers nothing just "Cash Paid to US"

 

Any help is appreciated how do I make sure they stop this fraudulent claims ? What letter/action should I take next ?

 

Thanks for any help in advance

Edited by reverof
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Write back to Robbers Way...

 

You need to fully pin them down, who was this "Authorised Representative"?

 

If this person is authorised you need to see documentation giving your explicit approval that this person can act on your behalf.

 

You need full copies of all paying in slips so you can hopefully see either a name, dates so that the payments match, at what Bank Branch & Where the paying in location is?

 

Stigman

NEVER telephone a DCA

If a DCA rings you, refuse to go through the security questions & hang up!

 

If I have helped you, click on the star & say thank you

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Thanks Stigman,

 

There was no representative and why would anyone pay cash? - so basically I just write back telling them to show further proof of payments and who the representative is, where paid in and copies of slips etc ??

 

Or is it best to tell them to go away with a letter stating that I have no representatives and noone is/has ever been authorized to act on my behalf relating to any financial issues ever - also I can highlight the debt is statute barred still (as Conniff mentioned still SB can not be un-statute barred after 6 years) and they should cease activity on it etc

 

Want to make sure I am not saying wrong things as they are very dodgy , still can not believe the cheek - even adding another payment the day AFTER my SB/prove payments letter arrived with them !

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Make sure you tell them that you are issuing formal complaints to fos and fca. And that you will be taking legal advice.

 

I bet theyll either try one last attempt at lying or theyll say it was an admin error. If the latter you can call them out on it as theyve made it pretty obvious it isn't an error.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks Stigman,

 

There was no representative and why would anyone pay cash? - so basically I just write back telling them to show further proof of payments and who the representative is, where paid in and copies of slips etc ??

 

Or is it best to tell them to go away with a letter stating that I have no representatives and noone is/has ever been authorized to act on my behalf relating to any financial issues ever - also I can highlight the debt is statute barred still (as Conniff mentioned still SB can not be un-statute barred after 6 years) and they should cease activity on it etc

 

Want to make sure I am not saying wrong things as they are very dodgy , still can not believe the cheek - even adding another payment the day AFTER my SB/prove payments letter arrived with them !

 

 

 

Good morning Rev,

 

 

Responding to your PM.

 

 

RW or Hoist now run by Najib Nathoo ex 1st Credit so it's him who needs tackling here.

 

 

So:

Mr Najib Nathoo,

CEO Hoist Finance

Carolina Way

Quays Reach

Salford

Manchester

M50 2ZY

 

 

Date:

 

 

Ref: Use theirs:

 

 

Re: Formal Complaint:

 

 

Unauthorised Payments:

 

 

Dear Mr Nathoo,

 

 

I refer you to recent correspondence between Robinson Way and myself in regard to Statute Barred Debt allegedly arising from an account with xxxxxx in the sum of £ xxx.xx.

I have enclosed copies of all correspondence for clarity and the avoidance of any misunderstanding.

 

 

Please take note of the following points.

 

 

1. This alleged debt is statute barred and I will not make any payments now or in the future.

2. Robinson Way has claimed that an " Authorised Representative" has made a series of payments in regard to the alleged debt, the last on being made on xx.xx.xxxx.

3. I have not at any time authorised and such payments to be made by any 3rd party and have had no knowledge of the alleged payments until I received Robinsons Way's letter dated xx.xx.xxxx.

4. The alleged payments are totally refuted and are clearly false, any responsibility for the alleged payments is denied.

5. Robinson Way WILL now disclose the identity of the alleged authorised person.

6. Robinson Way WILL now provide me with a copy of the alleged authorisation document which must of course have my signature.

 

 

I require Robinson Way a company for which you are responsible as CEO to respond in full to this complaint. I am aware that a Formal Complaint allows Robinson way 56 days to investigate and respond, but due to the seriousness of this matter a prompt and complete reply is expected.

 

 

I reserve the right to make complaints to all relevant regulatory bodies regarding the conduct of Robinson Way and its fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

 

Add/Amend/Edit as required.

 

 

Send by signed for post, check delivery date:

 

 

Brig.

Edited by caro
  • Confused 1

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Thank you so much for your help renegade imp and of course brigadier - really really appreciated

 

Amazing advice and I hope anyone else that gets anything like me will be helped by my experiences too

 

Will get this sent off and update here if/when I hear back

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Whoever paid in these amounts must have been given a receipt. As the person paying in is your 'authorised' agent, ask for a copy of those receipts.

 

 

Will they say the didn't give receipts.

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Do they have a payment counter?

Do you live in the same part of the country as the address on their letter? if not, how far would you have needed to travel to make such a cash payment?

How would you actually pay these "people" cash?

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