Vehicle Control Service Ltd PCN

[Ladylovessalsa]

I'll be brief..

 

6th December 2013, I pulled up in the Albert Street Car Park for 10 mins, while I waited for my son to be collected.

The car was not left unattended during that time.

 

I was sent a PCN for £80 if I paid within 2 weeks (something like that).

 

They have been writing to me but I've ignored them until

 

recently they sent me a letter from a debt collector.

 

I wrote back saying that usual...i.e not obliged to give them the details of the driver,

this is an invoice as oppose to a PCN,

legally that the land owner has the authority to pursue me for the debt

and if they did take it the matter to court,

they would only be awarded whatever the losses would have been which would be punitive.

 

This was their reply.

 

(Apologies, I'm not at work today so I can't PDF the letter, but here is what they said)

 

"Under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, if payment of the above Parking Charges Notice (PCN) has not been made by the driver,

or we have not been provided with a full name and serviceable address for the driver/hirer within 28 days from the date of the PCN issue date:

we are able to contact the Registered keeper so as the request the driver details.

 

You as as the registered keeper failed to provide us with this information requested - as such you have becomes liable for the amount due.

 

Our claim is for liquidated damages in respect of a breach of the parking contract.

We have calculated this sum as a genuine pre-estimate of our losses as we incur significant costs

in managing the parking location to ensure compliance to the stated Terms and Conditions

and to follow up on any breaches of these identified.

 

A full breakdown of loss with be provided at the request of a judge.

 

Whilst we appreciate what you have stated in your correspondence,

we must advise you that we are contracted by landowner to enforce

the agreed Terms and Conditions on the land stipulated in the contract between ourselves.

Unfortunately, due to our contract being commercially sensitive, we are unable to provide you with copy of the contract.

 

However, should the matter proceed to court, we will be happy to provide said information on request of the Court.

 

We have noted your comments that we should refrain from sending you any further correspondence.

As such, we state that any further correspondence regarding the Notice will be made through the issuing of court proceedings

whereby further costs will incurred on the Notice."

 

What should I do next? Can they take me to court?

Edited July 10, 2014 by Ladylovessalsa
typos

[i hate bailiffs]

They can take you to court but you can win

 

Letter from a debt collector they have no powers at all not bailiffs and can do nothing

 

You are too late for POPLA appeal

Get on with your life and ignore them

 

If they do send court papers you must not ignore them

[silverfox1961]

We have noted you comments that we should refrain from sending you any further correspondence. As such, we state that any further correspondance regarding the Notice will be made through the issuing of Court proceedings whereby further costs will incurred on the Notice."

 

I would report them for that statement. They are not nor ever will be in a position to instigate court action. I do note that they don't say 'they will' but it is implied by the statement.

 

Only the landowner or VCS with the landowners express permission can do this. The fact is that it would cost them a damn sight more that they would get back if (BIG IF) they won the case which is why they tend not to bother.

[Ladylovessalsa]

So the view is to ignore or write back saying that what Fox said about reporting them for the statement that implies that they could instigate court action? They are right in saying that they can get the landowners permisision to pursue me. Why am I not allowed to see the contract? Why mention it? To date they haven't even presented any photographic evidence. Also, and more importantly, is there anyone who has had court papers served to them from VCS and if so what was the outcome of the proceedings?

[i hate bailiffs]

So you are best part of 8 months on

Normally you are best to appeal to them then on to POPLA

 

You are too late for all that

 

You have ignored them untill now why start correspondence with them now

If you wanted to do all that it should of been months ago

 

Even if they did issue court paperwork you can beat them

 

A debt collector has no powers and is likely the last roll of the dice before they give up

[ericsbrother]

The reply you have received is full of bunkum, liquidated damages are not the coats of running a car park, they are the losses incurred by your action and that is nil. As for only handing over their calculations on the instruction of a judge, they would have any claim struck out if they refused to make the ir evidence available to you beforehand and you had requested it.

They are not going to take you to court, they want you to pay up as a result of this threat as that costs them nothing.

VCS are famous for losing court cases not winning them and they know that their letter is full of errors and wouldnt want it shown to a judge.

At this juncture I would continue to ignore them and any debt collector but do wach out for any letter/claim form that has an official county court stamp on it, there are no guarantees that they wont try their luck. There is nothing else you can do that will change their course of actions so dont worry about it and just see what happens

[Ladylovessalsa]

Okay.. will watch this space. If they do present me with a county court summons I will show it to you. Many thanks

 

LLS x

[Billy's mate]

We have calculated this sum as a genuine pre-estimate of our losses as we incur significant costs

in managing the parking location to ensure compliance to the stated Terms and Conditions

and to follow up on any breaches of these identified.

 

 

It is my understanding that they couldn't pursue you for these costs as they are the normal everyday costs of running their business, and they would still be paying these costs if you had not parked there that day. They can only pursue you for the actual losses incurred by your alleged parking violation.

[ericsbrother]

Correct. "establishment" costs are not a loss caused by your breach, they are the day to day costs of running a business. The business model of these companies rely entirely on the ignorance of people who are given a demand paying up. They would make nothing at all if it was down to just damages as the most they could honestly claim for would be about a fiver for sending out the demands. and that must not be profitable either.

Can you imagine going into a shop and just browsing but being given a bill for the cost of the heat and light and a bit towards the carpet? That is what they are asking for and they dont own the carpet anyway, it belongs to someone else.

[DBC]

To add to the above, this is a POPLA decision against VCS just posted over on MSE. As you can see, the assessor has seen through all hat boloney about their so called "losses":-

 

Considering carefully all the evidence before me, the Operator has stated that the charge is a genuine pre estimate of the loss incurred and in the event that it is not a genuine pre estimate of loss, the charge is commercially justified.

 

The Operator has provided evidence to show that they incur costs of £166.69 but in order to meet with the requirements of the British Parking Association, the maximum charge that can be imposed is £100. Although the Operator has stated the final charge, they have failed to indicate how this charge was calculated. Although the Operator has explained costs that may be incurred, a number of the items referred to amount to general operating costs and would not appear to be substantially linked to the cost incurred as a result of the breach. In the absence of an explanation as to how the amount of the charge was reached, I am not satisfied that the Operator has provided sufficient evidence to show that the charge represents a genuine pre estimate of the loss incurred.

 

If the charge is not found to amount to a genuine pre estimate of loss, the Operator has stated that the charge is commercially justified. The Operator has provided a number of cases in support of this submission. In cases I have seen from the higher courts and indeed the cases submitted by the Operator, it is clear that the charge cannot be commercially justified if the primary purpose of the charge is to deter a breach.

 

Where the charge represents damages, the amount of the charge is required to be compensatory rather than punitive; with the goal of placing the parties in the position they would have been in, had the contract been performed. In this case, the primary purpose of the charge is to prevent vehicles from parking without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket. This is to deter a breach of the terms and conditions and I am consequently not satisfied that the charge can be commercially justified. The Operator has not demonstrated that the charge is a genuine pre estimate of loss or commercially justified and I therefore have no evidence before me to refute the Appellant’s submission that the charge does not amount to a genuine pre estimate of loss. As a result, I need not decide any other issues raised by the Appellant.

 

Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

 

Shehla Pirwany

Assessor

[Ladylovessalsa]

Thank you so much for your response... They have started sending me text messages now... saying To PREVENT COURT ACTION call NEWLYN urgently on 01604 625130 Do not text' Should I still continue to ignore...?

[armadillo71]

Thank you so much for your response... They have started sending me text messages now... saying To PREVENT COURT ACTION call NEWLYN urgently on 01604 625130 Do not text' Should I still continue to ignore...?

 

You gave them your phone number?

 

Do not call Newlyn.

 

If you wish you could write to Newlyn and state the alleged debt is denied, cease and desist from contacting me.

 

But you have ignored most correspondence so far and no lbcc...

 

Personally I would continue to ignore, but update the thread if you get more from vcs.

[Ladylovessalsa]

To my mind... I have no idea where they go my number from. I certainly didn't give it to them. I've received another text so far. Hmm.. okay will continue to ignore and we will see what happens..

 

L

[Ladylovessalsa]

They have started calling me now... I'm getting annoyed now.

[ericsbrother]

answer by screaming as loud as you can down the phone. Alternatively, answer and dont say anything, just put the phone to one side and carry on doing something else. Drop them a letter saying they should desist calling

[DragonFly1967]

answer by screaming as loud as you can down the phone. Alternatively, answer and dont say anything, just put the phone to one side and carry on doing something else. Drop them a letter saying they should desist calling

 

If you have an old tape recorder, record a good length of tape with some cheesy elevator music and a voice over telling them how their call is in a queue and will be answered shortly, reminding them about how important their call is to you and thanking them for continuing to hold.

 

Might as well waste a bit more of their time and money. I'm sure they'd get the hint eventually

[i hate bailiffs]

They have started calling me now... I'm getting annoyed now.

 

Truecall device are great bit expensive but worth it

[silverfox1961]

I suggest you try and record the call. If you have a phone that has a speakerphone option and a mobile with a record function you can do so and you don't have to tell them.

 

Many callers will speak 'untruths' over the phone, something they would never dare put in a letter.

[Billy's mate]

Sounds like they're getting desperate now, and anxious to avoid their final option - the Courts. They know that this will cost them money to action, and they may not win. Stick it out.