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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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hit by an articulated lorry in doncaster on a roundabout blame ?


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a few days ago my wife ,myself her sister and our daughter went to Doncaster ,

 

our return journey (incase anyone knows the road layout) consisted in coming down the road behind the market to the traffic light junction .

 

when the lights turned green we approached onto market roundabout into the middle lane labelled A19SELBY /A638 WAKEFIELD.

which as a spiral roundabout takes you over the bridge towards sprotborough etc in the left hand lane as you exit the roundabout onto the bridge.

 

a few seconds onto the roundabout at a speed of less than 20 mph we were hit in the drivers side rear quarter panel by an articluted lorry of at least 7.5 tonne (has a forklift truck on the back ) so could have been of a heavier weight .

 

the lorry spun the car around 90 degrees and we were fully across the front of the truck .

 

the only thing we could see from the drivers side was the full front of the vehicle .

 

we have no idea wewre the lorry come from ,it either come from over the bridge ,or come from wheatley hall road .

 

the car wasn't ours it is my brothers car on loan to us from time to time on the understanding I paid for a separate insurance policy .

(as he is a garage owner and has trade insurance so we wold not be covered)

 

I did this in march (maybe earlier) and also included him on the policy as he is the owner and registered keeper as the car is usually kept at his home address.

 

then wagon driver jumped from the cab and shouted its your fault not mine .

 

I didn't respond at all I was in shock

 

my 3 year old daughter was on the side that was hit .

 

luckily the car was an audi and seemed to take the impact well ,

 

hate to think if it had been a small car like a corsa .

 

police attended the scene made sure everyone was ok they exchange details not us and then let us go on our merry way .

 

I took pictures of the damage to the car ,

the rear quarter back door ,

 

front door and front wing are all badly damaged

 

.the rear bumper has a slight crack and the rear wheel is scuffed ,

 

im devastated and feel wholly responsible to my brother ,

 

when I phoned my insurance they stated that as my no claims was unprotected

I will lose 8 years ncb if it ends up been a 50/50 split .

 

as there unprotected policy does not consider any ncb over 5 years

I wasn't even driving my wife was and Is a named driver.

 

I have been in contact with there transport mamager who was very polite and said don't worry we will have your vehicle sorted in no time

as the have a very good insurance company ,

 

he said the drivers pride was dented and he was been ribbed by his colleagues .

 

also said if it was my car I would have throttled the guy .

 

I know we are not to blame I know we were in the correct lane on the roundabout ,

but I have no idea were the lorry came from so quickly

 

I have attached a picture of how the car ended up on the roundabout

 

me and my brother are now in the process of assessing whether it would be better for him to fix the car ,

 

in case it goes 50/50 as the car if taken to audi for assessment would be wrote off due to the cost of fixing it.

 

further upping an insurance premium next year as the car was valued on the policy quote at over 11k

 

the wagon didn't seem to suffer any damage except blue paint on it from the car

 

seems my insurance is worth nothing ,

and all ive had is personal injury specialists phoning me to claim for injuries ,

 

all of us eneded up with none ,

except it effected my sciatica ,

but I am due to see a neuro surgeon this week as I already have 2 slipped disks

 

the small picture attached is from a mobile phone taken by luck from a girl who works at the public house my sister and daughter work at in scawsby.

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You need to stay off the phone to the transport manager and anyone else from the company

 

You need to deal direct with your insurance

Fill in the paperwork they send you and state the names of the police officers who attended

 

It is for the insurance to sort out

 

You will only loose no claims on this policy but you had none anyway

Your other policy's on another vehicle will be unaffected and your no claims is still there

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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eh ? the police told me to phone the transport manager and tell them directly about the accident . the was not 1 police man or woman who gave a name or badge number ,even though the whole of south Yorkshire police seemed to turn up .

 

 

we don't have any other car policy . we don't own another car ,that is why my brother loans us the car so my wife can go shopping etc . my brother owns a big garage with lots of trade and has done well for himself . so trying to help us out said if we paid for the insurance we could loan the car as long as he wasn't using it . As his trade policy is for himself ,his work and his own wife .

 

 

so I will loose my own ncb. I havent been able to afford an 11k car so it was more of a privelage for us to have use of it .

 

 

so please before making assumptions maybe ask for more info.

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so please before making assumptions maybe ask for more info.

 

Why is it you seam to think a forum will tell you you are not to blame and all is ok

 

By the sounds of it you pulled out in front of a lorry which side swiped your brothers car

 

Your insurance should deal with this and you will lose any no claims on that policy

It is there problem to sort

 

Or is it a cover up and not report it to insurance

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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how can we have pulled out on a lorry ? traffic light controlled roundabout .as far as I am aware he was in either the right hand lane moving over to early (as its a spiral roundabout )

or he came from wheatley hall road and pulled onto the roundabout in the wrong lane assuming the lane he was in he could exit left .

 

 

I wasn't driving my wife was but after 20+ years of driving with no accidents or claims or points (except the theft of my car) you cant exactly miss a 30+ foot lorry to the right hand side of you and drive into it .

if that was the case im sure the front of the vehicle would have impacted with the lorry first , it didn't .

 

 

it has been reported to the insurance immediately ,what annoys me is my insurance said if it turns into a 50/50 claim , i.e they cant determine who did what .it will lose 8 years ncb . as they only take into account 5 years ncb . and I have 11 .

 

 

they also wanted me to pay the £350 excess on the policy before anyone would assess the damage to the vehicle .

 

 

my brother owns a garage which is vw/audi specialist , they reckon if using 2nd hand doors and wing , straightening the rear quarter ,plus minor filling paint etc they can repair the car for less than the excess . obviously theres no labour charges as its my brothers own car

 

 

therefore saving me money even if it does go 50/50 . as I wont be claiming for the car to be wrote off at a value of 11k .

 

 

just bloody annoyed that my insuance on paper isn't worth a thing in reality . and so grateful that audis are built so strong enough to be pushed sideways around a roundabout.

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I doubt you want to hear this ...but... the HGV didn't appear from nowhere - if the description of the accident is accurate then it must have been coming from the right, and traffic from the right has priority. You cant just put your foot down as soon as your lights go green and hope for the best. Frankly a 50:50 liability split sounds like a very favourable outcome given that you say your wife didn't even see the HGV. I note you say that the front of your vehicle was intact, however that could well mean the HGV driver saw the problem developing and braked.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about 8/5/11 years NCB. Do you mean your insurers knock 8 years off? That would presumably leave you with 3 years if you had 11 to start with. You're lucky in that a lot of insurers just wipe the whole thing off. I'm surprised they even allowed you to take out insurance on a vehicle you don't own and don't keep at your address.

 

 

The business about paying your excess before an inspection sounds really weird, I've never heard of anything like it - might be worth asking to speak to a supervisor. In any event an inspection shouldn't be required unless it's likely to be a write off and you say repairs are well under the £11K value so that's not an issue. If accident liability goes 50:50 you'll get half your excess back, so you'd have less than £175 final outlay. If the garage can do all that work for £350 that's an amazing deal.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about your insurance not being worth anything - it's there to cover you for more serious accidents, not to mention any damage that other people involved in accidents sustain. If I reversed into someone I could easily be looking at a £10K bill for injuries and legal costs, that's what insurance is for, not sub-excess incidents.

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ok getting a bit confused here . if say joe blogs hits freds car on the roundabout , and fred claims for the car and injuries then , joe is up $$$t creek without a paddle as fred is gonna get thousands from a whiplash claim plus the hiked up prices accident repair shops charge insurance companies for repairs to cars , alot of them sub standard

 

 

poor old joe blogs losses some ncb and gets a massive premium hike next years after paying out for whiplash/personal injuries to fred and maybe passengers. plus the repair costs for 2 vehicles .

 

 

 

 

this way if it goes either 50/50 or our way then I lose 8 years ncb which will put my premium up next year . but if the lorry isn't damaged and im sure the driver wasn,t at the time as he was out the cab like a flash . then if the car is repaired without going through the insurance ,there isn't as such a claim to be had .therefore I shouldn't lose any ncb and don't have to donate a kidney next year to pay insurance out .

 

 

no one in our car was injured and we haven,t made any personal injury claims even though we keep getting calls basically saying we can claim (in certain words for false injuries) like that headache could be whiplash , your back hurts etc .

 

 

all I and my brother are trying to do is save premium price hikes .

 

 

normally a garage wouldn't do all that work for less than the excess but having a brother who owns a garage has benefits in this case . the body shop around the corner had a look and asked what price did we want putting on the estimate for repairs ,so that we could split the profit . eh

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It's a bit difficult to say without having numbers, but lets say for example:-

 

 

a) With 11yrs NCD you pay £400 a year for insurance. After this you pay £800 next year. HGV is fine, driver is fine, only loss is £350 to you for spare doors/paintwork. You will be better off not claiming at all, just pay the £350 yourself.

 

 

b) With 11yrs NCD you pay £300 a year for insurance. Afterwards you pay £375. HGV is fine, driver is fine. Your repairs come to £350. It makes sense to make a claim, take the 50/50 and get £175 back from the TPI (third party insurers).

 

 

Do however bear in mind that from the sounds of things your insurers are allowing you to keep some of your NCD. If you change insurers the new one's will almost certainly not honour that deal. One more reason to not make a claim at all if it really is just £350 we're talking about.

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tbh its along time since I had to make a claim for car theft , I lost 2 years ncb , I thought it was still the same 2 years ncb bonus lost . car insurance was shy of £600 due to the fact we (myself and wife) didn't own the car and a presumed not as responsible for the upkeep and looking after of the car ,in other words we wouldn't care less about it cos we don't own it.

that is untrue totally I was raised by my mother to take good care of anything and everything ,especially things loaned to you as if they break you have to replace them.

 

 

the car when we borrow it is checked before we go anywhere and after just incase , my wife parks away from the kerb so you need a drawbridge to the path , just to make sure she doesn't scuff a wheel .

she is still devastated about it and keeps second guessing the whole thing . she has been on google maps going over and over it looking at the roundabout trying to work out where the lorry came from .

 

 

me im just gutted that my brothers car is damaged and il lose 8 years ncb + a premium hike if it goes 50/50 .

 

 

insurance did say that any costs of repairing the car that come out of our own pocket will be reimbursed as long as we keep receipts and it goes in our favour.

forgot to add / we could lie like a lot do and say it cost a lot more money to repair if it goes 100% our way and claim falsely , but im too honest a person to do that .I couldn't live with the guilt .

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A few firms knock 2 years off NCD, sounds like your current one takes more, many firms just send you back to square one unless you have 'NCD protection'. It's up to them basically, something to consider when you choose an insurers is how good are they when something goes wrong. Often the cheapest quote isn't always the best policy to go with.

 

 

Definitely keep receipts for everything, that's good advice. You're absolutely right to say it's not worth lying, the risks far outweigh the benefits - get caught in one lie and your whole claim unravels, not to mention future effects.

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Ok so I've got this roundabout up on google... the st mary's roundabout. In most places its 4 lanes and one places its 3... so which road did you enter from? Coming from Doncaster to the roundabout I assume it was either North Bridge Road or St George's Bridge?

 

And which lane did you go into on the roundabout? Coming from those two roads suggested the 4 lanes prior to the roundabout correspond with 4 lanes on the roundabout itself so either your vehicle or the lorry strayed from their lane but ultimately that'll be hard to prove either way without an independent witness...

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This may or may not apply but remember both your wife and lorry driver have equal responsibility to understand that large vehicles including lorries and coaches etc sometimes need to straddle lanes or require more space negotiating some junctions and hazards. Highway Code 221

 

ALSO remember passing a green traffic light does not give you carte blank. Green means "You may go on if the way is clear" Being a round about, the over riding priority is to traffic on the right

 

without knowing the full sequence of events of both parties a 50/50 sounds favorable atm

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https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Wheatley+Hall+Rd/@53.5271244,-1.1337064,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x48790e14746595e5:0x474782e21f7e4063

 

This appears to be the roundabout you describe. Wheatley Hall Rd turns into Church Way before joinign this roundabout. This is the Markets Roundabout. TWO Exits are Church Way. Which enterance of the round about did you come in from?

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hi we entered onto the a630 church way from Market Rd. (arrows are pointing east on a630 in aerial view . moved into the correct lane 3rd lane onto lead into roundabout (4 lanes) signed on the road A19 Selby A 638 wakefield . when you enter the roundabout you are in the middle lane after the first exit off the round about (which consists of 2 lanes ) ,anyway on roundabout arrow in road is pointing to the right which leads you as its a spiral roundabout into the left hand lane as you go over St George's bridge .

 

 

sounds a bit confusing but better viewed from street view.

roundabout is traffic light controlled

lorry must have been in the far right hand lane and switched to the lane we were in to early to hit us in the rear quarter and shunt the car around into the front of the cab.

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where exactly did the collision occur

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Ok so now I'm looking at the right roundabout (what am I like! lol), I can see where you say if you're in the 3rd lane at the light's you'll follow the road markings and be in the middle lane as you approach the lights on the roundabout.

 

So as SabreSheep said, where on the roundabout did the accident happen? just by that first set of lights after you enter?

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ok look at the floor on street view in the middle lane just on the approach onto the round about is a blue vw van , turn around anti clock wise and you see a reflection of the google camera van on the floor , the collision happened around there , lucky the lorry wasn't going say 30+mph , it was just the sheer force/weight of it that I think spun the car around . we didn't get to the next set of traffic lights , we were asked/told by the police to pull the car onto the grass verge to the left hand side just past the sign for sprotborough. which we did the police exchanged details , asked if we were ok ,physically yes my wife was a bit shaken up naturally . but by the time we pulled off the grass verge, im quite sure the lorry had left the scene.

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I'm looking at the Google Earth version of the roadabout and think you entered from the entrance to the right, (with a car park to your left hand side) and wished to take the 3rd exit from the roundabout. (1st is major exit to Church Way, 2nd is minor exit to Grey Friars Rd, 3rd is major exit to St Georges Bridge which you intended to take.)

 

Your entrance had 4 lanes and you say you chose lane 3, which is ok at this point, but make a note that lane 4 is also marked as A19 and lets assume, as you can't be clear, that the lorry was in lane 4 also intending to exit to the A19 which he may also do legally. So think of it that of the 2 legal lanes heading for A19 you chose "the left of the choice" and the lorry picked the "right of the choice". Hold that thought.....

 

Moving on to the roundabout, the left lane is a forced exit into the 1st exit Church Way so, as you say your 3rd lane became the middle lane and the lorry in now in the 3rd lane. Look at the lane markings and you will see lane 2 and lane 3 are legally marked for A19, or to phrase it like I did before, you are in the "left of the choice" and the lorry is in the "right of the choice". Still both perfectly legal.

 

OK, this is where I believe you made a mistake by describing the roundabout as a “spiral roundabout”. It is not.

 

Look at the road markings just after the exit for Grey Friars Rd and you will see that the A19 markings are now in lane 1 and lane 2. Or to go back to my earlier phrasing lane 1 is “the left of the choice” and lane 2 is the “right of the choice”. You, up till now have always been selecting the “left of the choice” and therefore are required to move over from lane 2 to lane 1 and the lorry, who has always been in the “right of the choice” is required to move from lane 3 to lane 2 ready for the 2 lane exit onto St Georges Bridge. You will see if you look closely at the white lane markings just before Grey Friar Rd the white line for your lane is trying to guide you towards lane 1 (which makes the white line look like an X at that point. Upon you exit you would have been in lane 1 on the bridge and the lorry would have been in lane 2, both perfectly legal and both perfectly safe.

 

So, in my view the accident happened because just as you passed Grey Friars Rd, you failed to move from lane 2 to lane 1 and the lorry driver executed his correct procedure of moving from lane 3 to lane 2 but failed to check that the lane was clear to do so. That in my view will make it a 50/50 from an insurance point of view, but in my opinion you were wholly to blame for not understanding the correct procedure for lane execution on roundabouts.

 

As an ADI I can assure you, one of our top bugbears when teaching, is the number of people who execute wrong lane discipline on roundabouts but “get away with it” because the other vehicle they impeded takes evasive action. In this case, the driver of the 18tonner probably couldn’t even see you by then as you would have been in his blind spot and he therefore assumed you had moved over correctly to lane 1 and he move to lane 2.

 

Look at the roundabout as if you had approached it in lane 4 which is legally marked for A19 and picture the route you would have taken through the roundabout to acheive your exit to the A19 and you will find you will (or should) have taken the route I have described the lorry took which would result in a collision near Grey Friars Rd. If that is not where the collision occurred then I have misunderstood where it happened and would need to re-think it again. :)

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A little bit more evidence to support my lane descriptions on the roundabout. If you look at the lane markings approaching the roundabout from Church Way, (the first exit you passed). There are 3 lanes to approach, and lane 1 and lane 2 are marked for the A19. So if you are on the roundabout, as you pass Church Way and Grey Friars Rd you are expected to be in lane 1 or lane 2 to get to your A19 exit. If, prior to this, the lorry is in the (legal) 3rd lane marked for the A19, how do you suppose he can get to his exit if he isn't allowed to execute his lane change from 3 to 2 as he passed Church Way/Grey Friar Rd?

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...how do you suppose he can get to his exit if he isn't allowed to execute his lane change from 3 to 2 as he passed Church Way/Grey Friar Rd?

 

You've got that wrong, lane 1 is a forced left turn only, so lane 2 BECOMES lane 1, and lane 3 becomes lane 2, NO LANE CHANGES ARE NEEDED. A new lane 3 (A630 SCUN) is created by a hatched area on the right hand side of the road, adjacent to the X's.

 

I repeat, no lane changes are needed, that's why the 'X's are there, to guide you

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It would still be described as a lane change on this particular roundabout and not a true spiral roundabout, but that is by-the-by as when I try to come up with the actual impact location using the photos in post 1, it may be that the crash happened prior to this Church Way/Grey Friar Rd area anyway, meaning the lorry shouldn't have needed to move over yet.

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You've got that wrong, lane 1 is a forced left turn only, so lane 2 BECOMES lane 1, and lane 3 becomes lane 2, NO LANE CHANGES ARE NEEDED. A new lane 3 (A630 SCUN) is created by a hatched area on the right hand side of the road, adjacent to the X's.

 

I repeat, no lane changes are needed, that's why the 'X's are there, to guide you

 

Lane 2 becomes Lane 1 after the greyfriars turn off

Lane 3 Becomes Lane 2

New lane created.

 

I put it to you that the lorry that was in lane 3 moved as guided into lane 2 and your vehicle failed to move from lane 2 into lane 1 and carried on moving as if to cross into the path of the lorry probably unintentionally.

 

Therefore without further information as to where the lorry came from or where exactly the collision occurred im afraid 50/50 looks like the best outcome.

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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