out of my depth with SD over school fees

[macm00n]

The Defence has to come after the set aside, but I am wondering if there is anything to be done about the fact that they terminated the arrangement for you to pay by monthly DD without any notice, and in fact refused to take the monthly payment you offered.

 

Did you ever get a letter or email from them confirming that they were happy to accept monthly payments and the fees would be paid on that basis?

 

I have 8 years worth of invoices from them with the following wording "Please note you are paying by monthly direct debit. Collections will be made on the 15th of each month"

Also the varies emails, stating DD had missed or that they would take 2 payments together the next direct debit date.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi DD he was very unwell from the 22nd nov and had his 1st stroke the evening of the 26th followed by a second on the 2nd of december.

 

Then it is understandable that you did not deal with the claim.

[Desperate Daniella]

I have 8 years worth of invoices from them with the following wording "Please note you are paying by monthly direct debit. Collections will be made on the 15th of each month"

Also the varies emails, stating DD had missed or that they would take 2 payments together the next direct debit date.

 

Again, I don't think it is reasonable for them to withdraw the agreement without notice (although there may be something in the T&Cs).

 

Let's see what Andy thinks when he comes back later.

[macm00n]

Thanks DD

 

Its making my head spin !!! in court tomorrow to defend this, or at least try.

[Desperate Daniella]

Tomorrow!

 

I'm sorry I thought we had more time.

 

I'm sure Andy will be along shortly with his thoughts, but I think you should ask for the set aside on the basis of your husband's illness, and yours. The delay in asking for the set aside will have to be due to continuing ill health.

 

Andy will advise you on what to say for the Defence based on the information you have just given.

 

Do you have any emails where you have offered to pay by instalments, and they have replied refusing to allow you to do this?

[macm00n]

Tomorrow!

 

I'm sorry I thought we had more time.

 

I'm sure Andy will be along shortly with his thoughts, but I think you should ask for the set aside on the basis of your husband's illness, and yours. The delay in asking for the set aside will have to be due to continuing ill health.

 

Andy will advise you on what to say for the Defence based on the information you have just given.

 

Do you have any emails where you have offered to pay by instalments, and they have replied refusing to allow you to do this?

 

unfortunately the dismissal of paying the bill in 2 instalments, i.e. the first at the time of the exclusion and the second before end of term, were executed over the telephone. Only have emails, referring to one missed payment then the next email, states they want triple the amount. They don't even state that they wanted the term paid in full, just an amount, it is our assumption that it is the term in full.

[Desperate Daniella]

Did you reply to those emails saying it would be impossible for you to do this?

 

Is the amount right for the full term's fees?

 

There is also the matter of the other amounts for outings, etc.

 

Were the DDs for 12 payments over the year? When did the year start? September?

[macm00n]

Did you reply to those emails saying it would be impossible for you to do this?

 

Is the amount right for the full term's fees?

 

There is also the matter of the other amounts for outings, etc.

 

Were the DDs for 12 payments over the year? When did the year start? September?

 

I did communicate over the phone with the credit controller that we could not make the full payment, and asked for it to be split into 2 payments, I was told that they were not a bank!.

The school operates a termly policy, they send an invoice for 3 months, you pay by DD or in full at the beginning of a term. We had always used the DD method, thus our termly payments were split into 3 equal sums.

Our child was excluded because we owed half of the terms fee, with 2 months left to run on the term.

[AndyOrch]

See post #44

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry to be dodging about but we are dealing with a set aside and a defence.

 

Can you list the exact charges you think you should have paid - 3 x ?£

 

Then the rest of the charges they are claiming.

 

Then the amount on the claim itself. Total, court fees, other charges. Solicitor's fees?

 

Then the disputed amounts.

 

Also, you said the bill has gone up by £3,000. What is this £3,000 for?

[Desperate Daniella]

Also (sorry if you have already mentioned this earlier) can you afford to offer them anything in monthly payments at the moment?

[macm00n]

Sorry to be dodging about but we are dealing with a set aside and a defence.

 

Can you list the exact charges you think you should have paid - 3 x ?£

 

Then the rest of the charges they are claiming.

 

Then the amount on the claim itself. Total, court fees, other charges. Solicitor's fees?

 

Then the disputed amounts.

 

Also, you said the bill has gone up by £3,000. What is this £3,000 for?

 

the extra costs = £3000 are solicitor fees, court fees ect as of the SD

 

I think we should have paid £3,238, that covers the time at school. this includes 2 full months and 2 weeks. They only excluded our child because we couldn't pay the full term.

the extra charges are pupil insurances over the exclusion period. = £70

Dance lessons over the exclusion period.= £212

and late payment charges of £=91

plus school trip of £30

the total amount for the ccm claim itself = £5910.08

as of the SD it is almost £9000

[macm00n]

See post #44

 

Thanks Andy,

 

So I'm trying to base my defence around,

 

Ill health, mine initially, making it difficult for my husband to work full time as a contractor, thus finances were tighter.

The unfair exclusion of our child, as willing to pay monies owed to that point, but school refused.

The lack of clarity and response to requests made by us over the billing.

communication from the solicitor notifying the a claim against us

following day notice from the court ref claim

husbands ill health in refuting why we could not deal with this until now.

 

in your opinion.... is this enough ... or too much?

[macm00n]

Also (sorry if you have already mentioned this earlier) can you afford to offer them anything in monthly payments at the moment?

 

yes we can pay half of the amount of the judgment, and willing to make arrangements to clear the rest within a year.

[Desperate Daniella]

£3,000 solicitors costs! I think you could challenge those.

 

The court costs for the CCJ in a small claims court shouldn't be more than £95, less if they did it online. They didn't pay anything further because you didn't defend.

 

I think it's £80 to issue a Statutory Demand, although I'm not 100% on that.

 

I don't think you will have much of a chance challenging the extras apart from the school trip if this was arranged some time after they had excluded her. The insurance will have been paid and presumably it's in the t&cs that extras like dance classes have to be paid up front. There is probably also something about late payment charges.

 

I think Andy needs to know more in detail about the actual letter they sent

 

Can you type it up here.

 

Did you respond in writing repeating your offer of payment by instalments?

 

I will be out now for a couple of hours but will be back later. What time is the hearing tomorrow?

[Pavi]

Hi,

I had a very similar situation at well known school on the south coast. They tried to put a charging order on my house, things were difficult after my wife nearly died. The headmaster was known as a self appointed expert on every thing. To cut a long story short I looked at via the charity commission the schools charity status to no avail at time. However in the meantime there has been talk among some MPs and others about removing their charitable status generally. You are allowed to ask for a copy of their charter from the commissioner and question their charitable status. It is quite clear that have not acted as charitable organisation given that your family is in distress. With some backing from press this might big stick to beat them with. Being a charity they save thousands in VAT. This means in effect they are supported by the tax payer.

I hope this is some help, I know first hand how difficult this is, Good luck

Pavi

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi macm00n,

 

I don't know if Andy will be back online before you go to Court.

 

I think your application for a set aside should be based on your husband having his stroke during the 14 day period when you could have acknowledged the Claim, and your and his on-going health problems which is why you have not applied for a set aside earlier. You obviously have the statement from the consultant.

 

I think you should say that it was always your intention to challenge part of the claim because you have never been given a clear figure. Point out that they have given five different figures so far. This is important. If you don't say you intended to defend part of the claim there is no reason for the judgment to be set aside.

 

Also say you want to challenge the amount added for their solicitor's fees and court costs.

 

Take the bank statements and statements from the school that show you were paying direct debits by agreement. Point out that they stopped this agreement without any prior notice and would not accept your payment, but demanded the whole sum and because you could not pay immediately they suspended your daughter who is only ? 7 years old.

 

Say that you offered to pay by instalments and the credit controller said they were "not a bank". Say it has always been your intention to pay the actual outstanding fees but you were not in a position to pay the entire sum when they demanded it and they have repeatedly refused an instalment plan.

 

That is the best I can do for now. The main thing is that you did offer to pay and you disagree with the sum they have claimed which is why you always intended to defend the claim.

 

I hope that helps a bit and I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

[citizenB]

Good luck for today - please let us know how things go !

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy,

 

So I'm trying to base my defence around,

 

Ill health, mine initially, making it difficult for my husband to work full time as a contractor, thus finances were tighter.

The unfair exclusion of our child, as willing to pay monies owed to that point, but school refused.

The lack of clarity and response to requests made by us over the billing.

communication from the solicitor notifying the a claim against us

following day notice from the court ref claim

husbands ill health in refuting why we could not deal with this until now.

 

in your opinion.... is this enough ... or too much?

 

If you was not allowed 7/14 days to propose any intentions then Pre Action Protocol was not complied with by the Solicitor.

It was your intention to fully defend the claim not partial except for the un for seen medical emergency that took priority at the time.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[macm00n]

If you was not allowed 7/14 days to propose any intentions then Pre Action Protocol was not complied with by the Solicitor.

It was your intention to fully defend the claim not partial except for the un for seen medical emergency that took priority at the time.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thank you all so much for your time, knowledge and patience.

 

Here we go!!

 

I will of course let you know the outcome.

 

Fingers crossed.

Xx

[Desperate Daniella]

Good luck!

[macm00n]

evening all

 

so a quick update

 

We lost.

 

The judge whilst sympathetic with the illness in our family, has rule the debt was owed, that we entered into a contract with the school, we breached that agreement, therefore the debt was due. He did reduce the solicitors costs by £300 tho.

 

The judge did inform us of our options at this point,

1) pay the debt in full

2) apply through the court to vary how we pay, i.e. submit an attachment of earnings etc and the court will award instalment amounts.

 

the claimants solicitor also spoke to us after .. advising to have the SD set aside, cancelled, as unless by a miraculous technicality it would stand and they would award bankruptcy.

 

could that miraculous technicality be that he forgot to date the SD???

 

anyway the solicitor also said he would confer with his clients as to instalment payments, but they would only be open to that if we submit to them an attachment of earnings.

 

so may I once more ask for any thoughts on which way might be more beneficial to us.

[DuffNCustard]

Don't listen to that weasel solicitor, your creditor has been awarded a CCJ - for now park all the noise that the weasel is making about the SD its just a lot of hot air. The Judge has reduced their costs and summarised your options. Very simply pay in full or apply to the court to pay in installments. This is called a redetermination, others on this forum much better versed in the fine detail will advise you how to apply for a redetermination, its a form you fill in and submit.

You will need to complete an income and expenditure form, listing out your legitimate living expenses and your income. The courts don't expect you to live on pot noodles but they'd be rather put out if you were buying cigarettes and vintage port. This information is shared with your creditor. The redetermination is conducted in the judges chambers and HE makes a decision on how much you will pay each month. It is an informal session and te Judge recognises the fact that you are not a lawyer. He enters this information on the CCJ it is his order. Your creditor will probably ask for the debt to be secured on your property, the Judge will consider such a request along with any objections you put. I would also ask the Judge to consider setting aside the SD. If they get the charging order then the debt is like a mortgage and this will be reflected at the Land Registry.

To enforce a CCJ in the event of a debtor not making the payments ordered by a judge, creditors have to follow a legal process, firing out a SD is not along the timeline.

As long as you make the payments as directed by the Judge that's it, the SD is irrelevant

[citizenB]

I will alert others on the site team - I think you probably will need to cancel the set aside application.

 

I believe you would be best served by applying to the court for a redermination of the judgment debt. It might be a good idea if you were to speak to National Debtline and have them help you prepare a common financial statement - although the one I have attached is acceptable in courts. The reason I suggest ND is that they will let you know immediately if your expenditure is going to raise any eyebrows with the court.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/Pages/default.aspx

 

Call us free on

 

0808 808 4000

 

Monday to Friday 9am to 9pm

 

Saturday 9.30am to 1pm

 

 

 

Ellens Budget Sheet.xls

[citizenB]

Mac, please see correction on my advice by andyorch below. It appears you have to make application to vary the judgement by using form N245 and the court has it's own I&E.

 

My apologies.

 

You dont redetermine a forthwith CB you apply to vary N245 which already has it own court standard I&E.They wont accept any other.