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    • Wrongly convicted Horizon victims in Scotland to be exonerated NEWS.STV.TV Victims who faced wrongful convictions are to be exonerated the day after Royal Assent is granted.  
    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013. A general discussion thread.......


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avatar2233, if Penham Excel are indeed misinterpreting the TCG Regs, then the council who employ them need a Formal Complaint sending with local MP included to highlight that well the new deal for debtors is not working, and bailiffs, sorry Enforcement Agents just keep on "cheatin & fleecin" That application of the third stage sales fee, of £110, with no entry contact or Control f Goods Agreement, which has to be wet signed by a debtor is worrying indeed.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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back on topic I am wandering if someone could look at this and comment on these points I am asking

 

 

TBH did these reforms go far enough or in much more detail? I think not, once again the debtor is going to suffer more fees and LESS time to act. Which brings us all back to the first rule of being in debt TALK TO CREDITORS ASAP and work on a plan before the case goes to Court.

 

 

Or pay the debt in full, or make an arrangement plan with the creditor, which is permissible even if it is with the EA. which brings us nicely to the post here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-Viewing)-nbsp

 

 

Also if you read the PDF taking control of goods see section 8.2 the word ACTUALLY is very important, but this part is very worrying 9(4)(b) this is very open to abuse by an EA that is not as honest as some. I have attached this PDF for viewing

 

 

The importance of this part is 8(2)(a) the cost of storage is minimal because they already have storage facilities' in place so no extra cost is involved, will the EA charge a fee for this storage?

 

(2) The following disbursements are recoverable provided that they are reasonably and actually incurred—

 

(a) the cost of storing goods which have been taken into control and removed from the premises or highway;

 

 

Also please read 17 (1)(2) what are peoples view on this?

 

 

Further thoughts are as follows

 

 

1. An EA goes into an area with say 5 debtors, and takes control of goods at each one of them and removes

2. The TRUE cost of removing goods is significantly lower than if it was for just one debtor.

3. The ACTUAL cost for storage/removal is again much lower because the EA is dealing with more than one (1) debtor on his rounds

4. Will the EA's actually be honest and state that they have removed goods from many debtors within a short period of time and certainly within the same area, therefore not actually incurring any further costs except the fuel it takes to go from one address to thee next, especially if within the same town/village

5. The true cost is minimal because the EA did not return to base and empty each debtors goods INDIVIDUALLY, so not to mix up one debtor's good's with another's

6. If the EA's use this method and have multiple goods from different debtors what safeguards are in place to stop goods mixing? Then having goods sold and the proceeds being allocated to the wrong account/debt?

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avatar2233, if Penham Excel are indeed misinterpreting the TCG Regs, then the council who employ them need a Formal Complaint sending with local MP included to highlight that well the new deal for debtors is not working, and bailiffs, sorry Enforcement Agents just keep on "cheatin & fleecin" That application of the third stage sales fee, of £110, with no entry contact or Control f Goods Agreement, which has to be wet signed by a debtor is worrying indeed.

 

Indeed, I may well write to the council about it at some point. Gonna wait and see whether they actually go through with applying for the warrant first though. Unless i've misunderstood the regs they won't get anywhere fast even if they do :D S28(2a) sets a pretty narrow scope.

 

I did wonder if applying the 3rd stage fee improperly was a way of trying to provoke me into contacting them, but think it's more likely it's just a little scheme they've hatched to increase the return they get from their debtors.

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avatar2233 if you pay your debt in full then you may want to read the threat here

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?423283-‘Magicians-Choice’-to-evade-paying-bailiff-fees.-Is-there-really-a-‘loophole’-in-the-new-regulations-or-is-this-a-TRICK-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

 

Is there a reason that you have an outstanding debt with the LA

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The reason is that they and I disagree about my entitlement to the single occupancy discount.

 

I've read that thread, fees dont fuss me, i'm emigrating within a month, the EA can do what they like, i simply don't care :D If they break in i'll just sit in the corner and read a book and not even acknowledge their presence (apart from filming them for YouTube), my goods except those few i'm taking with me have already been given to family and friends. I'm a web developer so they cant have this computer even if they want it :-), it'll just be a waste of their time and an interesting new experience for me. I don't intimidate easily.

 

I only mentioned it since uncle bulgaria was wondering if anything about their powers to force entry had changed, Penham Excel think something has... i think they are wrong but if this is something EA's are going to start threatening as a matter of course then it's a problem. A little old lady or vulnerable debtor might not take it quite so nonchalantly as i do, not to mention the abuse of the fees structure.

Edited by avatar2233
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but this part is very worrying 9(4)(b) this is very open to abuse by an EA

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/regulation/9/made

 

(4) Where the goods are—

(a)auctioned by way of an internet auction site; or

(b)sold other than by auction,

the enforcement agent may recover from the debtor 7.5% of the sum realised by the sale of the goods.

 

 

 

Yes, it is, in theory at least. They could flog debtors goods to a guy on a street corner. These regs don't seem to have been particularly well thought out at all.

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I only mentioned it since uncle bulgaria was wondering if anything about their powers to force entry had changed, Penham Excel think something has... i think they are wrong but if this is something EA's are going to start threatening as a matter of course then it's a problem. A little old lady or vulnerable debtor might not take it quite so nonchalantly as i do, not to mention the abuse of the fees structure.

 

Sometimes it is best to stay away from local authorities because they love making things much more complicated than they need be. I wrote a complaint about some local issue and now they think I need to be involved in local decision making, with them sending me letters every month and inviting me to attend meetings. Perhaps they do this to all people who complain, so they can say that they have been consulted. My neighbours who did not complain, don't get the letters.

 

Also you can guarantee that if you need something, they will have a 30 page form to complete, most of which is totally irrelevant.

 

Going back to your point about the bailiffs, you should enter into a formal complaint with the council in writing by recorded delivery and ask them to note this as stage 1 complaint in regard to the LGO process. Keep the complaint going for as long as needed and hopefully you will be out of the country, before the bailiffs are allowed to get involved again.

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I dropped this in to the wrong forum so have posted it here as follows

 

 

Ok here's looking at a bad scenario, you get an bad EA that gets to remove goods for sale, as in s9(4)(b) of my attachment which clearly states "sold other than by auction"

 

How open is this to abuse? I guess time will tell, because the debtor will have no recourse than to accept the word of an EA that "a" sale took place. nowhere is it deemed necessary that the sale must be at auction and can clearly be disposed of by other means.

 

 

I guess the MOJ didn't look to closely to this one did they? it has left a wide open hole for a less scrupulous EA to operate from without breaking a sweat, and get paid for it too. Something here stinks big time, I will spend as long as it takes to find more holes that are open to abuse.

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Good question MM If the EAs mate wanted a Beemer well...........who knows?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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For anyone that's interested re bailiffs threats to force entry to residential premises to collect on council tax liability order, at some point this morning the following notice was left for me:

 

 

 

"Enforcement Agents Attendance

 

I have re attended your premises today with a view to removing goods under the powers granted within the:

 

Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 pursuant of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007.

 

Notice has been provided under the powers granted to me as a Certificated Enforcement Agent acting for . The said Notice and associated Enforcement letters pursuant to S12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 allows, if no payment is received IMMEDIATELY, that I can now apply to the Court for Powers of Entry.

 

Should immediate contact not be made and the Courts grant me Powers of Entry the next course of action will be attendance with a Locksmith to enter your premises and remove goods. Under the powers of the Court this procedure can be carried out even in your absence.

 

Please do not ignore this letter.

 

Make contact with me and this matter can be concluded."

 

[Emphasis original]

 

 

 

Usually they wait a week or two between visits, it's only been a few days this time.

 

Some very officious capitalisation in there as well :D

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I don't see that anyone has picked up on S10 [2]of the Act-"Circumstances in which EAs cannot take control of goods"

Where an item which belongs to the debtor is in use by any person at the time at which the enforcement agent seeks to take control of it, the enforcement agent may not do so if such action is in all the circumstances likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Seems a bit of a catch 22 for the Police on roadside stop then.

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I don't see that anyone has picked up on S10 [2]of the Act-"Circumstances in which EAs cannot take control of goods"

Where an item which belongs to the debtor is in use by any person at the time at which the enforcement agent seeks to take control of it, the enforcement agent may not do so if such action is in all the circumstances likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Seems a bit of a catch 22 for the Police on roadside stop then.

 

If that was to be applied absolutely, and without interpretation, it might render any seizure at the roadside where a vehicle is "being used" as in on a journey. unlawful If the car is parked up at home however then it would not be in use.

 

Thoughts folks?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I don't see that anyone has picked up on S10 [2]of the Act-"Circumstances in which EAs cannot take control of goods"

Where an item which belongs to the debtor is in use by any person at the time at which the enforcement agent seeks to take control of it, the enforcement agent may not do so if such action is in all the circumstances likely to result in a breach of the peace.

Seems a bit of a catch 22 for the Police on roadside stop then.

 

So if the debtor and their family/friends are holding/using items, the EA's can't tough them. If they tried to snatch them, the Police if in attendence would have to arrest the EA for breach of the peace.

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So if the debtor and their family/friends are holding/using items, the EA's can't tough them. If they tried to snatch them, the Police if in attendence would have to arrest the EA for breach of the peace.

 

Would appear to ne so, imagine if the bailiff, oops EA tried to take a power drill or if they tried to snatch Sthil stone cutter off a tradesman as they were working, one slip and the EA would be legless, literally.

 

Seeing how the p;olice are under the spell of the EA they would likely tell the debtor to stop using the item and hand it over, then arrest them if they refused.

 

Wonder if that would apply to say a Rolex or other ludicrously expensive timepiece, the driver of say a BMW pulled over in an ANPR scram was wearing and is likely worth twice the value of the car?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Again, this doesn't seem to have been properly defined. I wonder how they'd define 'back of a fag packet'? :-)

 

The back of a small card board cube 7 cm long x 4 cm wide approximately.

 

The whole lot is an almighty firk-up, with the main beneficiaries the EA companies.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I'd guess it's going to be like the bedroom tax with the law being created by precedent as it goes along.

 

The problems I have seen so far are:

1 - a total disregard for the allowed 7 clear days

2 - what appears to be laziness in filling out the required forms

 

No doubt others will come to light but it looks to me as if none have them have learned a bean and will just bulldoze their way through as they have done in the past. What they forget in my view is that Legislation now lays down what they do and how to do it. If they can't be bothered to fill forms in correctly or jus use a plain 7 days notice then it is time THEY learn the hard way and have the Legislation used against them.

 

On the other hand those that do High Court work have in the main caught on how to do it properly.

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

 

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With regard to the forms no guidance was offered by the MoJ and they were only released a few weeks before the changes came in.

 

They are in the most part poorly designed with duplication of content and other important information missing. One important omission in my mind is the lack of a 'payments to date' type box. If a payment has been received and a second visit is made due to a broken arrangement the figures will not add up. Also, in HCEO work there is nowhere for the execution costs (they get put in the debt box) and there are complications for the enforcement stage box if stage 2 is added.

 

I foresee changes being made to the forms before the year is out.

 

Having said all of the above I'm glad it appears that HCEOs are doing it properly.

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Avatar.

 

Are you able to remove personal information and post a copy of the notice on the forum?

 

This is the best I can do using my phone as a scanner:

 

viewer.php?file=95438327876719786528.jpgHe was back again this morning and left another notice. Exactly the same as the above but with todays date :D

 

 

 

EDIT: Attaching the image seems to result in some weird behaviors, half the time its not attached at all and some other times the link is broken and when it isn't the image is tiny, so i've uploaded it here too: http://postimg.org/image/vzd7x9qtn/

Edited by avatar2233
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you need to always convert everything you attach to PDF format

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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