me and my landlords

[confusedbunny]

Have you checked your local council website on what it says there !

 

Most councils advise you not to leave until the Bailiff turn up,before they even consider a person homeless...

 

Sorry, that's what I meant to say at the start of this thread in point 2, with the local council having knowledge, that I remain until the bailiff arrive, rather than leave before hand and breach any chances of being re-housed perm or temp...

[confusedbunny]

you would have been better off just sticking to one thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?400377-Explanation-of-term-quot-INTENTIONALLY-homeless-quot

 

Apologies, I didn't want to confuse both detailed subjects and are two different sections on the website...

[ploddertom]

you would have been better off just sticking to one thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?400377-Explanation-of-term-quot-INTENTIONALLY-homeless-quot

 

Think for now they are better off concentrating on the other thread to get their housing needs sorted first. I don't doubt the LL will then start proceedings for recovery of monies owed.

[45002]

Sorry, that's what I meant to say at the start of this thread in point 2, with the local council having knowledge, that I remain until the bailiff arrive, rather than leave before hand and breach any chances of being re-housed perm or temp...

 

Sorry, my apologies I missed that part

 

Local councils have a habit interpreting the law in different ways on homeless...

 

As for the council striking you off the waiting list due to eviction,contact the council your on the waiting list with !

 

LL wants all the money now and was trying to evict me via a S21 but keeps failing, I think he will try the S8 route now....(wants me out weather I paid or not)

 

Shelter have a very good guild on the eviction process http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_assured_shorthold_tenants

 

And here http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/help_with_money/rent_arrears

 

Possession orders,Some LLs are using this now to speed up evictions http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?50166-Enforcement-of-a-Possession-Order-using-the-HCEO-route

Edited August 19, 2013 by 45002

[raydetinu]

Councils do not like rent arrears of any sort, so may affect any claim, but depend on circumstances. Suggest you contact them and see what they say!

Also speak to Shelter.

Was HB paid to you or direct to LL and you had to top up?

[mariner51]

Has the LL served you with either s8g8 or s21 yet.

Has he obtained a repo order for either yet?

 

AFAIK most Councils' these days regard a s8g8 repo order granted as making yourself intentionally homeless. (rent arrears = T breach of Contract).

If you wait for bailiffs to evict, depending on your personal circumstances, Council may only offer you a emergency temp accom for a few nights in a hostel or B&B. not perm rehouse.

s21 repo order is regarded as 'no fault', even then Council may only offer up to 14 days in hostel or B&B, unless a property becomes avail in the interim for which you qualify. Most Councils will normally start looking once the Court repo action has been signed.

For either s8 or s21, if you vacate voluntarily before the hearing, even after having served your own valid NTQ, Council may regard this as making yourself 'intentionally homeless'. It may depend on where you live, availability of suitable Social Housing stock & how many claimants in the area are more deserving. eg disabled, medical, parent with young child.

[HCEOs]

..

[45002]

In the end the OP has had no court action even started yet !

 

Sorry to be blunt

 

OP would be better advised looking for a roof over there heads and worry about LL pursuing Rent arreas when LL actuality start the process ....

[confusedbunny]

Has the LL served you with either s8g8 or s21 yet.

Has he obtained a repo order for either yet?

 

AFAIK most Councils' these days regard a s8g8 repo order granted as making yourself intentionally homeless. (rent arrears = T breach of Contract).

If you wait for bailiffs to evict, depending on your personal circumstances, Council may only offer you a emergency temp accom for a few nights in a hostel or B&B. not perm rehouse.

s21 repo order is regarded as 'no fault', even then Council may only offer up to 14 days in hostel or B&B, unless a property becomes avail in the interim for which you qualify. Most Councils will normally start looking once the Court repo action has been signed.

For either s8 or s21, if you vacate voluntarily before the hearing, even after having served your own valid NTQ, Council may regard this as making yourself 'intentionally homeless'. It may depend on where you live, availability of suitable Social Housing stock & how many claimants in the area are more deserving. eg disabled, medical, parent with young child.

 

Thank you for your detailed reply....No notice served yet and repo order either (last S21 just failed due to non-protection of my deposit)

[confusedbunny]

Could someone please verify if a claimant can instruct a HCEO and they still come and take your goods, even if a payment plan for the CCJ has been agreed by the judge and payments kept up-to-date please?

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

No they cant

[confusedbunny]

Thank you for your prompt reply. Am I write in assuming that when I judge decides how much per month I can pay towards the CCJ, it will be within my means? (showing a financial statement of my finances and what I have remaining at the end of the month for debts)

[ploddertom]

In theory yes but sometimes it all goes pear shaped. Care to explain more about this?

[confusedbunny]

My landlord is going to get a CCJ against me for rent arrears and I need clarification on the matter of HCE and the basis of when and how they can be instructed.....I plan to make a payment proposal to the judge with the CCJ and assuming i do not default....what other actions can be taken against me.

[wonkeydonkey]

When your hearing takes place you can make an offer to the court of affordable repayments..... make sure you have an I&E prepared to substantiate the amount you offer.... the Judge will then ask the creditor if they accept your proposals and will likely give his opinion to the creditor if he/she sees it to be realistic and should be given consideration. Your creditor is entitled to refuse any proposals and can either put forward what they see to be a realistic repayment amount or opt to seek enforcement.

 

 

You ask about HCE...... if the creditor has reason to believe you have assets that would satisfy the debt, they can transfer the ccj (if awarded) up to a writ of fi'fa by way of the High Court that will then be given to a HCEO and they will serve the writ on you. At this point you will not know of the impending visit to seize goods until you get that knock on the door, if you cannot pay or agree repayment with the HCEO (again it is up to the creditor to agree the amount they require for instalments to be put in place).....

 

 

You will be to apply for a stay of execution to the writ along with submission of a variation order making your offer of repayment, if the creditor again refuses then the Court will consider your circumstances carefully and make their own ruling. If things get to this stage you will have incurred substantial 'costs' and the Court is unlikely to comment or remove them.

 

 

I hope you can now see it is not a simple case of you offering to make payments and they will automatically be accepted and that everything hinges on the creditor accepting them. Some Judges will overrule a creditor's refusal to accept repayments at affordable levels if they can see it would do no good to drag the matter through further hearings when reality tells them the creditor will be flogging a dead horse. Other Judges will just award the ccj and adopt the 'let them all sort it outside my courtroom' attitude.

[confusedbunny]

When your hearing takes place you can make an offer to the court of affordable repayments..... make sure you have an I&E prepared to substantiate the amount you offer.... the Judge will then ask the creditor if they accept your proposals and will likely give his opinion to the creditor if he/she sees it to be realistic and should be given consideration. Your creditor is entitled to refuse any proposals and can either put forward what they see to be a realistic repayment amount or opt to seek enforcement.

 

 

You ask about HCE...... if the creditor has reason to believe you have assets that would satisfy the debt, they can transfer the ccj (if awarded) up to a writ of fi'fa by way of the High Court that will then be given to a HCEO and they will serve the writ on you. At this point you will not know of the impending visit to seize goods until you get that knock on the door, if you cannot pay or agree repayment with the HCEO (again it is up to the creditor to agree the amount they require for instalments to be put in place).....

 

 

You will be to apply for a stay of execution to the writ along with submission of a variation order making your offer of repayment, if the creditor again refuses then the Court will consider your circumstances carefully and make their own ruling. If things get to this stage you will have incurred substantial 'costs' and the Court is unlikely to comment or remove them.

 

 

I hope you can now see it is not a simple case of you offering to make payments and they will automatically be accepted and that everything hinges on the creditor accepting them. Some Judges will overrule a creditor's refusal to accept repayments at affordable levels if they can see it would do no good to drag the matter through further hearings when reality tells them the creditor will be flogging a dead horse. Other Judges will just award the ccj and adopt the 'let them all sort it outside my courtroom' attitude.

 

Thank you for your reply. So, at the point of agreeing a payment plan at the CCJ stage, making an offer via I & e of affordability if no guarantee of the judge deciding my offers of repayment is realistic & affordable?....

[wonkeydonkey]

Thank you for your reply. So, at the point of agreeing a payment plan at the CCJ stage, making an offer via I & e of affordability if no guarantee of the judge deciding my offers of repayment is realistic & affordable?....

 

 

 

Sadly that is the case....there is no guarantee your offer will be accepted.

 

 

Only recently I sat through a hearing with a lady who had exactly the same scenario, it would be fair to say the Judge gave the impression he was 'bored' with the claim from the outset, he asked the defendant."do you owe the money" and of course the answer was "yes", next question was "what attempts have you made to repay the claimant" reply ,"none as yet sir, my income is very limited as you can see from the sheet before you but, I can make token repayments until such times as my circumstances change and I offer £5 pcm" Judge turned to the creditor raised his eyebrows and asked if he was prepared to accept that amount..."no" was the reply...after a few seconds shuffling his paperwork the Judge explained he was granting the claimant's claim because their was no doubt the money was owed, he then looked up and said " I will not waste any further time on this matter and I suggest both parties take their discussion on how the debt will be satisfied outside my courtroom"

 

 

In direct contrast, another hear I attended....the Judge again made the order in favour of the claimant BUT she took everything regarding the couples finances into consideration and all but told the claimant that if they refused what was on offer they would be very 'foolish. The claimant accepted the offer even though he knew it would take three years to get his money back.....mind you, even I felt in awe of that Judge and quickly made a note to myself to tread carefully if ever I came across her again!!!

[HCEOs]

Sound advice by wonkeydonkey.

[confusedbunny]

Thanks again for clarification. The only asset I possess is a car, would the HCE attend my address without notice and take it then? And/or can they take my basic possessions from my home if I do not allow them entry?

 

Also, if my first attempt at trying to sort out a payment plan via the courts at the CCJ stage and the HCEO's are instructed, can I try to stop them and apply back to the court to make an offer of payment again?

Edited November 24, 2013 by confusedbunny

[wonkeydonkey]

Thanks again for clarification. The only asset I possess is a car, would the HCE attend my address without notice and take it then? And/or can they take my basic possessions from my home if I do not allow them entry? If the car is not on finance then yes it would be up for grabs.

 

Also, if my first attempt at trying to sort out a payment plan via the courts at the CCJ stage and the HCEO's are instructed, can I try to stop them and apply back to the court to make an offer of payment again?

If you are unfortunate enough to have your offer refused at ccj and your creditor decides to transfer the debt up to a writ of fi'fa'

then the next step is a two fold to application (n244) to stay execution and an (n245) to a variation of affordable repayment.

 

 

If your creditor has refused previous offers you will need to use the n245 as grounds to get the stay in place, eg....application for stay of execution pending a hearing to a further application for variation to payments....... the most important of these applications is the stay of execution(n244) so if you are preparing your I & E ready to submit with the variation but not quite ready you must push ahead and make the stay application regardless. Once that is in the Court will likely stay enforcement until they get to see your variation application.

 

 

It is always advisable to make both at the same time and take them in person to your nearest Court that acts as a district registry for the High Court.

[HCEOs]

Can I ask what the approximate value of your car is?

 

For example, if you a driving something worth £20k that is clear of finance and the creditor tells the court, your offer will almost certainly be refused.

[confusedbunny]

Can I ask what the approximate value of your car is?

 

For example, if you a driving something worth £20k that is clear of finance and the creditor tells the court, your offer will almost certainly be refused.

 

Its worth approx £3000.

[confusedbunny]

If you are unfortunate enough to have your offer refused at ccj and your creditor decides to transfer the debt up to a writ of fi'fa'

then the next step is a two fold to application (n244) to stay execution and an (n245) to a variation of affordable repayment.

 

 

If your creditor has refused previous offers you will need to use the n245 as grounds to get the stay in place, eg....application for stay of execution pending a hearing to a further application for variation to payments....... the most important of these applications is the stay of execution(n244) so if you are preparing your I & E ready to submit with the variation but not quite ready you must push ahead and make the stay application regardless. Once that is in the Court will likely stay enforcement until they get to see your variation application.

 

 

It is always advisable to make both at the same time and take them in person to your nearest Court that acts as a district registry for the High Court.

 

Thank you once again for a detailed reply.

[HCEOs]

If the value of the vehicle covers all or a good portion of what you owe you may find that your proposal will be refused. Given this asset you should ensure your payment plan is sensible.

 

It really will depend on what is produced to the judge on the day.

[confusedbunny]

Im back! I have a few queries: quick outline of circumstances:

 

 

Deposit not protected

Past two S21's failed

Currently on a SPT

No way of paying off arrears to get it under two months

 

 

1. Can LL serve a S8 on any date (or does it have to be before rent due date)? (during a SPT)

2. Can the S8 be served by hand (in communal hallway) (LL has previously fabricated lies and produced false witness statements that notices have been served to me in person) how can I challenge this if he pulls this stunt again?

3.will I have a chance to put in a defence? and request a hearing?

4. For the S8, I am hoping to put in a defence of: (please advise me accordingly)

-the LL has failed to serve me a S48, despite asking several times (rent not "lawfully" due until served)

-LL has just quoted an over excessive figure on the S8, no rent statement given or challenged

-LL not served notice by post or in person (lied and verbally said served to me by a 3rd party company)

 

 

Does anyone think my points in #4 suffice to get the claim to fail? (I realise I am avoiding the inevitable)