Jacobs & Council Tax - advising they will charge new Fees

[Jackofall]

Hi guys, interesting discussion.

 

I have received a letter from Bristow and Sutor who are trying to collect about 600 quids worth of council tax (although their letter says 700 and something now)

 

As of yet i have just ignored them, made no contact. Ideally i'd like it to be passed back to the council so i can just pay in installments. Worst case i could pay it off in full but i am self employed so try to limit damage to cash flow.

 

The letter says 'New enforcement process' and says i must pay in full within 5 days of the letter. It says failure to do so will result in them coming around to take my goods. They mention changes to the processes coming into effect as of the 6th of April. The letter reads as if they can now turn up at your house and drill the locks. They talk about locksmith charges on the back of the letter.

 

They also say i can only pay them to stop this, presumably to stop me paying the council and them not getting their fee's?

 

Is it just scaremongering? I never bothered revoking their implied right of access, i couldn't be bothered, but it seems as if that is now no longer possible?

 

They use the word bailiffs to describe themselves, but aren't they just debt collectors? I will also add that a magistrates liability order was made against me middle of last year.

 

Nicholas.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Jackofall

[brassnecked]

Jackofall they are bailiffs and will be attending to enforce the liability order, and a NOIRA will not keep them out. Looks like they are getting ready to implement tye new Taking Control Of Goods ASAP, with the threat of the new fees as a lever for people to let them in to levy.

[Jackofall]

That's bloody annoying.

 

Will calling them to set up a payment plan stop them wanting to come around?

 

Failing that i guess i could always pay the council direct, online and let the bailiffs know i've paid the council.

[renegadeimp]

Just ignore them for now. They can only charge 2 visit fee's.... until these silly changes happen.

[Woodi79]

Sorry to jump on this thread, is there a link to these new changes? Bit worried!!!

[lookinforinfo]

If the bailiffs are already involved, can they charge the new rates coming into force, or do they have to stick with the current figures?

[mikeymack2002]

Sorry to jump on this thread, is there a link to these new changes? Bit worried!!!

 

 

Read from here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/contents/made

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?398412-Taking-Control-of-Goods-Regulations-2013

 

tomtubby has made several posts in regards to this happy reading

 

 

MM

[josephbloggs]

Just ignore them for now. They can only charge 2 visit fee's.... until these silly changes happen.

 

The two visit fees if left outstanding, will turn into the compliance fee, if they are outstanding any further visits will incur the £235 attendance fee, definetly wouldnt advise ignoring

[ploddertom]

I've started a new thread as to leave this on the previous post will cause confusion.

[Jackofall]

Sorry, i did look for a council tax section but got a bit lost.

 

Just ignore them for now. They can only charge 2 visit fee's.... until these silly changes happen.

 

I have ignored them and looking at what i owe and what they say i owe they have charged for two visits.

 

So if i ignore them what will happen? will they turn up after April the 6th to drill me?

 

I guess in an ideal world i would be able to coerce the council to take the debt back or get the bailiffs to send it back.

[Jackofall]

Hi,

 

So in a situation where i want to spread payments, what would be the best thing to do? I don't really want to let a bailiff in to be honest.

 

Or pay them their fees.

[tomtubby]

 

Just ignore them for now. They can only charge 2 visit fee's.... until these silly changes happen.

 

Please do not take this the wrong way but the above advice should NOT be given at all !!!

 

The new regulations are due to take effect on 6th April and debtors will be in for a huge shock .

 

The government have issued statutory regulations to cover cases that are already being managed "in house" by the enforcement companies. In essence if a debtor's account is currently subject to a payment arrangement and the account defaults after 6th April the enforcement company may make an 'enforcement visit' and fees of £235 will legally be applicable.

 

Furthermore, if no payment arrangement is yet in place.....then it is vitally important to make sure that the debtor contacts the company immediately to set up such an arrangement.

 

The days when a debtor can ignore bailiff correspondence is finished.

[brassnecked]

If a debtor couldn't afford the original council tax, and the £42.50 for the visit fees, they aren't going to be able to afford the new fees either, but you are correct TT early action and avoidance of Ostrich mode is essential from now on.

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps we need a thread about 'paying council tax' to avoid expensive bailiff fees. As there is now potential of having to pay these increased fees, perhaps a thread that covers the council tax billing procedure and when councils are allowed to use bailiffs etc. If more people are aware of the system, hopefully they can avoid paying any bailiff fees.

 

There is also a question. If someone already has a liability order for an old council tax bill say from 2012 or before 6/4/14. They have been ignoring letters/bailiffs etc. They may or may not have paid anything to the council directly. Would these people be liable for the new bailiff fees or only those fee that applied when the liability order was actually obtained ?

[brassnecked]

I think that they would have to stump up the new fees if enforcement commenced after April 6th as the whole system changes.

[renegadeimp]

Please do not take this the wrong way but the above advice should NOT be given at all !!!

 

The new regulations are due to take effect on 6th April and debtors will be in for a huge shock .

 

The government have issued statutory regulations to cover cases that are already being managed "in house" by the enforcement companies. In essence if a debtor's account is currently subject to a payment arrangement and the account defaults after 6th April the enforcement company may make an 'enforcement visit' and fees of £235 will legally be applicable.

 

Furthermore, if no payment arrangement is yet in place.....then it is vitally important to make sure that the debtor contacts the company immediately to set up such an arrangement.

 

The days when a debtor can ignore bailiff correspondence is finished.

 

My apologies TT. Looks like i have some reading to do on the new regulations.

[Jackofall]

I've sent the council an email.

 

I pointed out that the fees i am going to rack up will be counter productive. I indicated that the goods in my property aren't worth what i owe and that what is of value is used for work. I explained that as they well know, the bailiffs will take anything and everything irrespective of the damage it will do to earning potential and the goods wont even cover their fees. I told them that it will ultimately go to court and take great deal of time to clear and incur yet more charges.

 

I offered them a lump sum, 400 and told them to spread the rest on the current years payments and set up a standing order. I also pointed out that i am getting working tax credit so they could take that if they wished.

 

The email pretty much highlights that they will make a repairable situation worse.

 

If i was them i wouldn't refuse but you never know with these toss pots.

[kernowlife]

Getting back to the original questions, 1 important one still remains unanswered. After the 6th April, Will bailiffs be able to break in/force entry to remove goods or will they still need to gain peaceful entry?

 

The reason I ask is because I am in a similar position to the OP in the fact that I have a couple of outstanding council tax bills and am already on the second bailiff. I definatly can not afford to pay the outstanding at this time and have also just ignored them. (At the moment I can't even pay this years bill)

 

Am I likely to come home one day and find the door has been drilled?

[wonkeydonkey]

Start paying what is affordable to you even if its only £3-£5 a week, pay the Council direct, pay them on the same day every week and make sure you quote the correct ref no's for the years your paying to.It helps to build up a history to being a 'trying to pay'. After the 6th April the Councils will need to be a lot more careful before they start sending in enforcement agents (that's bailiffs to you and I)...and explore alternative methods for recovery ..I think we will see a lot more attachments to earnings or benefits.

[Jackofall]

Start paying what is affordable to you even if its only £3-£5 a week, pay the Council direct, pay them on the same day every week and make sure you quote the correct ref no's for the years your paying to.It helps to build up a history to being a 'trying to pay'. After the 6th April the Councils will need to be a lot more careful before they start sending in enforcement agents (that's bailiffs to you and I)...and explore alternative methods for recovery ..I think we will see a lot more attachments to earnings or benefits.

 

As i understand it, the council have passed it to baiiffs and the bailiff letters say you need to deal with them only. I know the council can't refuse payments, but him paying the council a few quid a week won't resolve the bailiff matter will it?

 

I think i am going to call the bailiffs tomorrow and see what sort of payment plan they would accept. i really don't want to part with a massive chunk of cash, but i will if it stops the doors being drilled, which appears to be the case as of now on...?

[renegadeimp]

Doesnt matter if the bailiffs are involved. All they can do is pester you then hand it back to the council. If you are paying the council direct, then they would be hard pressed to take action as you are making payments. Thats not to say they cant, just theyd have limited options.

[kernowlife]

I'm still after a simple answer...After 6th April, Will bailiffs be able to break in/drill locks to remove goods or will they still need to get peaceful entry?

[lookinforinfo]

If you read this thread- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421247-Walking-Possession- post 3 in particular, you will see that as the bailiffs were called in before the new legislation

then they have to work to the current rules.

Not sure that even after the new legislation that bailiffs will be able to break in or drill locks without a court order. In fact, I don't think they will be even able to enter via an open window in future.

[brassnecked]

No they are no more able to drill locks at will from April 6th any more than they can now, thgey still need peaceful entry

[Jackofall]

Ok, so they still need peaceful entry it would seem according to what some of you have suggested, which sounds good to me and makes me feel a bit less concerned about having my door messed with.

 

I want to get a clear understanding of this situation not only for myself but clarity for others too.

 

The letter Bristow and Sutor sent is titled in bold 'New Enforcement Process Commenced'

 

The opening paragraph explains the liability order against me and talks about the visits made.

 

They then suggest in the next paragraph 'the process and fees they charge will change on the 6th of April', and inform me that they will then be acting as enforcement agents wanting to take control of goods in accordance with Schedule 12 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement act 2007.

 

Then in the middle of the letter they say payment must be made in full within 5 days.

 

Then in bold. Failure to pay will result in enforcement agents being instructed to visit the address to take control of the goods. The cost of the visit will be a minimum of £235. Then it says, if your goods are removed further costs will be payable.

 

What i would like to know is, if i start paying the council say £150 a month and just totally ignore the bailiffs will the bailiffs eventually give up and pass it back to the council? As you say, if i am paying the council taking further action (getting permission from the court to break in) will become difficult.

 

And, what happens to the bailiff fees if i am ignoring them and paying the council direct. Presumably they will turn up within the near future for a third time and then bill me a further £235 on top of their existing charges?

 

Thankyou.