ESA WRAG - been told by JC to join Universal Job Match - ??

[rainbo]

Hi all,

 

Quick background - ex-husband is on ESA (WRAG), he's just completed 2 years of work programme so is now back with the Job Centre.

 

Job Centre ESA advisor has told him he MUST join Universal Job Match and MUST tick the boxes to allow them permission to see his record and send him suitable jobs. As he's on ESA, is it the law that he MUST join UJM and grant the permissions requested?

 

Thanks all

[Jmarie80]

UJM is how they monitor your work search activity and that activity is something you agree to in order to claim JSA. I recommend using UJM and recording ALL your job search activity on there so that they can't question that you are doing your bit to look for work and also to help you keep track of all the jobs you apply for. The people in the jobcentre are themselves monitored and they HAVE to look on your UJM account to see what you have been doing and they HAVE to personally recommend jobs for you on there or they get in trouble. UJM is a great thing in my opnion, I found loads of jobs on there and just got my dream job via UJM>

[2ltr16valve]

UJM is how they monitor your work search activity and that activity is something you agree to in order to claim JSA. I recommend using UJM and recording ALL your job search activity on there so that they can't question that you are doing your bit to look for work and also to help you keep track of all the jobs you apply for. The people in the jobcentre are themselves monitored and they HAVE to look on your UJM account to see what you have been doing and they HAVE to personally recommend jobs for you on there or they get in trouble. UJM is a great thing in my opnion, I found loads of jobs on there and just got my dream job via UJM>

 

 

He isn't on JSA he is on ESA.

 

 

OP.

I believe the job centre should not be allowed to force him to apply for jobs at all while on wrag. He IS deemed unfit for work still.

[45002]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?360909-6th-%28and-final!-%29-WFI-coming-up-how-do-I-politely-refuse-a-7th-interview

Hi all,

 

Quick background - ex-husband is on ESA (WRAG), he's just completed 2 years of work programme so is now back with the Job Centre.

 

Job Centre ESA advisor has told him he MUST join Universal Job Match and MUST tick the boxes to allow them permission to see his record and send him suitable jobs. As he's on ESA, is it the law that he MUST join UJM and grant the permissions requested?

 

Thanks all

 

Are you sure Ex hubby is on ESA WRAG ?

 

2 years in the work programme is usual on JSA !

[rainbo]

Are you sure Ex hubby is on ESA WRAG ?

 

2 years in the work programme is usual on JSA !

 

Yes I'm positive - I sort out and see all his paperwork (and help him keep on top of it) and attend appointments with him.

 

He was with Seetec for 2 years, he saw the ESA advisor there once a month (nothing else, just a review every month), and now that the 2 years "mandatory WP" has been completed, he's been handed back to the JC.

 

 

EDITED - just noticed that you've linked your post to a previous one of mine, which has nothing to do with this person, but you've already been told that I post on behalf of more than one benefit claimant (and a mod has said there's nothing wrong with doing this) so I won't tell you again, thanks.

Edited January 24, 2014 by rainbo
added a bit

[rainbo]

He isn't on JSA he is on ESA.

 

 

OP.

I believe the job centre should not be allowed to force him to apply for jobs at all while on wrag. He IS deemed unfit for work still.

 

Yes - she's not forcing him to actually look for paid work (yet!) but she said he MUST sign up with UJM and give them permission to access his record and allow them to send him appropriate jobs. Also he's been told to apply for voluntary work, get a GMail account, write a CV and cover letter (again!) and write an action plan.

 

What with all that AND receiving this year's ESA50 form, his anxiety is through the roof.

[Perseus1]

I think you will find that anxiety will probably decrease if you collaborate with plans that are designed to help him.

 

I can see problems if the client cannot find any suitable jobs to apply for.

 

There is a place to purchase refurbished computers. Ask about this.

 

Volunteering may be like a job trial. My WP advises me to that to make it clear than when volunteering that you are looking for permanent employment and she/he both suggested that the trial period should not exceed a month in duration as this is enough time to consider whether or not you are suitable for paid work.

 

Discusssion has emerged that you are expected to try a bit. Just how hard the client tries is open to question. I do it in spurts followed by periods of disillusionment.

 

The more you try (with proper support) the more your resilience increases and this improves your chances. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_resilience

 

It is also possible to get free Internet access at the Library.

 

I think some people join the equivalent of a Job Club where people in the same position all prepare their CVs etc. I got a job once through this system. The job was underpaid, without prospects, which caused difficulties.

 

I think if you resist their attempts to help you will get more grief and anxiety that resisting them.

[osdset]

Yes - she's not forcing him to actually look for paid work (yet!) but she said he MUST sign up with UJM and give them permission to access his record and allow them to send him appropriate jobs. Also he's been told to apply for voluntary work, get a GMail account, write a CV and cover letter (again!) and write an action plan.

 

What with all that AND receiving this year's ESA50 form, his anxiety is through the roof.

 

This UJM scenario for ESA claimants is a relatively new phenomena, it seems that the powers that be are now fed up with not being able to mandate ESA claimants to apply for, or take up work, so it's harassment via UJM.

 

I've yet to find any legislation that mandates ESA claimants to sign up for UJM, so requesting that JCP provides proof that this is compulsory would be the way to go I think.

[rainbo]

This UJM scenario for ESA claimants is a relatively new phenomena, it seems that the powers that be are now fed up with not being able to mandate ESA claimants to apply for, or take up work, so it's harassment via UJM.

 

I've yet to find any legislation that mandates ESA claimants to sign up for UJM, so requesting that JCP provides proof that this is compulsory would be the way to go I think.

 

THANK YOU. This is most helpful.

 

As an aside, he's not resisting help and there's a couple of avenues which have been suggested/offered that may be of use, but right now he's quite a way from 'mandatory job searches' with his health, so until it becomes compulsary to sign up with UJM OR he feels ready to take that step, I don't want him to feel bullied into something that isn't necessary at this moment in time. He has taken tentative steps into looking for a voluntary placement, and is waiting to hear back from a few places.

[jasta11]

Extract from a DWP Briefing document issued by the PCS Union (the DWP's own union) to all members working in Jobcentres, dated March 1st 2013;

 

'Access to UJ Account

If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. However, it is absolutely clear from a legal perspective that the claimant does not have to tick the box to give DWP access to their account, and can provide alternative proof of UJ sign up and use, e.g. screenprints'

 

There is no mention of specific types of claimant, ie JSA, ESA, etc so it seems the document applies to all who are 'claimants'. The basic use of UJ would be exactly the same for all users, irrespective of category therefore the same guidance should apply. Many JSA claimants now - including myself and a lot on this forum - refuse to give access to their UJ accounts and they're quite within their rights.

 

JC advisors are very good at making up 'guidance' out of thin air hoping the customers won't know any better. Be wary at all times and always ask for written proof of what they're asking - it's amazing how many times they can't produce it when challenged!

[osdset]

THANK YOU. This is most helpful.

 

As an aside, he's not resisting help and there's a couple of avenues which have been suggested/offered that may be of use, but right now he's quite a way from 'mandatory job searches' with his health, so until it becomes compulsary to sign up with UJM OR he feels ready to take that step, I don't want him to feel bullied into something that isn't necessary at this moment in time. He has taken tentative steps into looking for a voluntary placement, and is waiting to hear back from a few places.

 

Unfortunately anything that isn't regarded as preparing for work at some point in time, however far in the future that time may be (or if that time will come at all), is seen as resisting 'help'.

 

JCP and the Work Programme's idea of practical help falls far short of anything I can think of that will stimulate someone into disregarding health issues and launching themselves into a shelf stacking career at Morrison's.

[rainbo]

Unfortunately anything that isn't regarded as preparing for work at some point in time, however far in the future that time may be (or if that time will come at all), is seen as resisting 'help'.

 

JCP and the Work Programme's idea of practical help falls far short of anything I can think of that will stimulate someone into disregarding health issues and launching themselves into a shelf stacking career at Morrison's.

 

Oh yes indeed, he's/I'm fully aware of this. He is taking small steps, but at least JCP cannot say he's not done anything, he has actually done everything - except sign up for UJM - that they've asked, and he's only been back under JCP's umbrella for a week (next appointment in a few days).

 

Mandatory shelf stacking would lead him to another breakdown. Of this I am certain. "Heavily encouraged" volunteering in a chosen placement - although not ideal - is the lesser of 2 evils. If he's asked to leave a voluntary placement for taking too much time having an anxiety attack in the staff toilets, at least it's not a paid job he's being fired from. (And I'm not being sarcastic or flippant there.)

[45002]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?360909-6th-%28and-final!-%29-WFI-coming-up-how-do-I-politely-refuse-a-7th-interview

 

 

Are you sure Ex hubby is on ESA WRAG ?

 

2 years in the work programme is usual on JSA !

 

 

Yes I'm positive - I sort out and see all his paperwork (and help him keep on top of it) and attend appointments with him.

 

He was with Seetec for 2 years, he saw the ESA advisor there once a month (nothing else, just a review every month), and now that the 2 years "mandatory WP" has been completed, he's been handed back to the JC.

 

EDITED - just noticed that you've linked your post to a previous one of mine, which has nothing to do with this person, but you've already been told that I post on behalf of more than one benefit claimant (and a mod has said there's nothing wrong with doing this) so I won't tell you again, thanks.

 

I was Referring to your Ex Hubby,Not one of your friends !

 

Good evening ....

[rainbo]

I was Referring to your Ex Hubby,Not one of your friends !

 

Good evening ....

 

Now that you've changed the link again, yes, that one refers to ex-hub. He ended up being on WP with Seetec for 2 years. Final appointment was end of last year.

[Minibits]

Jeez 45002, is that your badge number?

 

If you would only put some effort into helping people, instead of harassing and bullying them, and seemingly getting away with it here, you may just have enough energy left to smile.

[45002]

Now that you've changed the link again, yes, that one refers to ex-hub. He ended up being on WP with Seetec for 2 years. Final appointment was end of last year.

 

Really !

 

Jeez 45002, is that your badge number?

 

If you would only put some effort into helping people, instead of harassing and bullying them, and seemingly getting away with it here, you may just have enough energy left to smile.

 

Yup

 

Valerie singleton presented me with a badge All them years ago

 

Have a nice day ...

[dyfed]

UJM is how they monitor your work search activity and that activity is something you agree to in order to claim JSA. I recommend using UJM and recording ALL your job search activity on there so that they can't question that you are doing your bit to look for work and also to help you keep track of all the jobs you apply for. The people in the jobcentre are themselves monitored and they HAVE to look on your UJM account to see what you have been doing and they HAVE to personally recommend jobs for you on there or they get in trouble. UJM is a great thing in my opnion, I found loads of jobs on there and just got my dream job via UJM>

 

Do you work for DWP or something?

There is plenty wrong with UJM like adverts for sex workers for example!

There are better job hunting sites out there, UJM is awful.

 

You also dont have to tick the box to let them snoop on you 24/7 to make sure your looking for work for 35 hours every week and asking why you dont apply for every job you look at.

 

My advice is DONT TICK THE BOX!

[tommy456]

Using /registering or uploading a public CV to UJM is not mandatory even for those claiming JSA (unless it is part of your claimant commitment which you previously agreed to) how ever work coaches can issue a self-seekers direction to mandate you to register or use UVJ they can only mandate one activity ,and have to take in to account a number of factors before they issue a JS direction ,

 

I can't quite get my head around why they push this ujv on everyone,? apart from it making their job easier i don't see any other logic behind it

 

The WP and WRAG claimants info on this seems to be somewhat sparse, i would like to know how they can deem it reasonable for people with physical conditions that limit their mobility to travel and attend to take part several days each week over a two year period, then there is also the question of what they are able to do without being in pain ect whilst there,

[tommy456]

Below seems to be the most recent,

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507282/wp-pg-chapter-2.pdf

[tommy456]

The above link is regarding the Work programe, and some of the rules about it being mandatory for those in WRAG and the exceptions to that rule for those who fit the criteria , below is the latest UJM Toolkit via a FOI request, and it still isn't mandatory to even use it, never mind creating an account on it and uploading a public CV Sure they DWP can in certain circumstances issue a Job seekers direction to mandate someone on JSA to complete one task per direction, I would politely tell them to take a long walk of a short pier when tide is at low water

 

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/261979/response/638772/attach/html/6/Ch%2003%20Using%20Universal%20Jobmatch%20v56.0%2026.02.15.pdf.html

[Mr.P]

tommy456: You are posting on a thread that is over two years old.

 

Still, the UJM Toolkit is useful info and well worth a read by anyone facing the issue of being mandated to set up an account (regardless of what benefit they are on).

[tommy456]

tommy456: You are posting on a thread that is over two years old.

 

Still, the UJM Toolkit is useful info and well worth a read by anyone facing the issue of being mandated to set up an account (regardless of what benefit they are on).

Twas in part my reason for posting the info,If it is of any help to anyone then it is worth my time and effort

I wish i could find more info on the rules surrounding the WP for those on ESA WRAG who have had the WP foisted up on them by the DWP

As it surely cannot be a one size fit all regime , surely it will depend on what heath conditions you have and how much they affect your mobility as well as other important factors ,as to the frequency and duration , and if you are even expected to attend wp sessions or not,

Both the WP and UJM are imo pointless for those who have been found unfit for work, for most on ESA Wrag their health conditions are unlikely to improve enough for them to return to work , and the thought of the state making the sick and disabled work really boils my urine,

[TW25]

I'm on JSA and whilst i use the Universal job match i have not given my advisor accsess to my account. You do not have to. Some get funny as ive heard claiments being harrassed but being on JSA as long as i can prove what ive applied for touch wood no problems.

[tommy456]

I'm on JSA and whilst i use the Universal job match i have not given my advisor accsess to my account. You do not have to. Some get funny as ive heard claimants being harassed but being on JSA as long as i can prove what ive applied for touch wood no problems.

currently on JSA myself as i'm waiting on a MR result for ESA , but they do push people to use UJM even though it isn't mandatory, to use it or create a ujm account and upload a public CV , As for your evidence of work search activities , these can be given verbally , though what you have agreed in your claimant commitment can make this difficult , Since attending my initial JSA interview i have stopped them in their tracks when they have tried in on, When you know the rules in the guidance and you make it very clear that you know, they will relent,(they have little choice really) rules is rules, but they still continue with the UJ mantra, i had it when i went to sign on, they had organised a time for someone to help me create a e-mail/gov gateway account and uj account, and when i told them that it wasn't mandatory they tried lying saying that it was, until i explained that he had read chapter 3 of the uj tool kit, they then muttered something about if it is on your claimant commitment it's mandatory , which theoretically sounds plausible, but if uj isn't mandatory then how could it be included in a claimant commitment, as job seekers direction only allows one action /activity per direction, and before they can issue a fs direction they have to take into account a number of factors such as health conditions, (would it be reasonable for you to attend JCP on a frequent basis outside normal signing times)and the availability of their on site devices , and if or not you have a pc in your home and if you have access to the internet, and finally if you wish to accept cookies on your pc,

 

I'm looking for info on the WP for those on ESA their must be some info regarding current legislation , and of the DWP rules surrounding this, as there has to be safeguards in place that would prevent those who were placed in the ESA WRAG being mandated to participate in WP , most of those in the WRAG won't recover from their health problems, some have degenerative conditions, but thanks to the tory persecution by IBS the support group has been made impossible to get into, there is a large number of people in the WRAG who should be in the support group, this is why ESA is floored, why can't government not understand /accept that if you are unfit for work then you can't work

[micky2phones]

When on ESA if asked to go in for interview with your advisor or go on cousre they can stop your money if you dont, but you dont have to look for work