Are These Road Signs Illegal ?

[green_and_mean]

It was not a case of trying to look clever, it was a case of are there more than one infringements of the regulations occuring ? and then requesting advice about that; but because someone has a bit more knowledge than most on a subject it does not make them infallable, so why make sarky remarks such as "I didn't realise that you had done a survey of cctv cameras in the uk, or is the fact most are automated something else you have just made up?".

I do not just make scurrilous statements I quoted something I had read, although at the moment I am unable to find exactly where that statement come from.

Ref the TheBus Lane Enforcement Camera Handbook, which you state as my use of information being "mentioned in a handbook intended for those manufacturing cameras"

It is also "mentioned" in the Department of Transport's Provisional guidance on bus lane (includingtramway) enforcement in England outside London. November 2005 (revised February 2008).

5.11. Guidance on automatic bus lane enforcement systems is also given by the Home Office Scientific Development Branch (HOSDB) in their publications The Bus Lane Enforcement Camera Handbook – Provisional.

So it is not just some throw away publication as you seem to suggest, as for the Violation record, it is A record containing all the evidence of an offence produced by a bus lane enforcement camera, so maybe it does have some significance.

Anyway I have contacted to Council Parking Services who deal with these PCNs prior to the 14 days reduced "fine" deadline and outlined my concerns about the signage and also the day of the week situation on the PCN and requested that the PCN be revoked and advising them that I am prepoared to continue on to the official appeal hearing and if required onto PATAS, which they have advised me they have received and are now considering the points I have made and will be back in contact with me.

 

The camera used for your PCN was not automatic so none of your points are valid neither is Luton in London so threatening to go to PATAS will probably give them a good laugh.

[rds60h]

I apologise, I should have said the Traffic Penalty Tribunal the PATAS equivalent for outside of London.

[rds60h]

Just make sure that you know exactly what the legal requirements in your circumstances are, and are able to produce them.

 

 

This may help: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2756/contents/made

 

Thank you for that Raykay, I have already used that in my research so far and found it very helpful.

[green_and_mean]

Thank you for that Raykay, I have already used that in my research so far and found it very helpful.

 

I actually quoted from it at the start of the thread as it has no mention of requiring the day of week something you seem to think is 'the law'.

[rds60h]

Just to let everyone know that I have had my wife's Bus Lane PCN quashed.........Victory !!!

Thank you to all who have positively contributed and advised which all helped and encouraged me to appeal, and to those who gave negative opinions and so called advice "YOU WERE WRONG !!!!!!"

They have stated that "A contravention occured and that had been correctly issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004." However, because I had pointed out that there was not a "No Left Turn" sign in place when exiting the side roads, they were prepared to accept my representation and on "this occasion only" cancel the PCN and they advised me that a "No Left Turn" sign is in the process of being put in place. They then continued that "Although the sign is not currently in place, it has no relevence to the issue of our PCNs as all our signs that advise motorists of the bus lane are in compliance with regulation." and then finished with "To confirm this Notice has been cancelled on this occasion only as a gesture of good will."

 

Yeah Right !! Do they really think I believe that if they were in the right they would be "In the process" of putting a "No Left Turn" sign in place and that if their signs were in compliance with regulations the PCN would have been cancelled ?

I had also questioned some of the other signs with the fact that the signs showing were for "With Flow" Bus Lanes whereas this particular bus lane is registered as a "Contraflow" bus lane and therefore should have different signage..................none of this was addressed in the reply. I think you can draw your own conclussion from this.

 

Anyhow, as I said the PCN has been cancelled and I thank everyone who gave positive advice and opinions for their help.

[sailor sam]

Good news BUT strange explanation.

 

If they say that "A contravention occured and that had been correctly issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004." and "To confirm this Notice has been cancelled on this occasion only as a gesture of good willi", why are they going to the expense of putting a "No Left Turn" sign in place?

 

Just didn't want the risk of loosing at the adjudicator!

[filrobbo]

yep has said all a long how many more had this happed to, its a way of making a good income, but now its been challenged they will have to put things rite.

[sailor sam]

yep has said all a long how many more had this happed to, its a way of making a good income, but now its been challenged they will have to put things rite.

 

Maybe a letter to you local rag would be in order? Maybe others in your position could do the same as you!

[green_and_mean]

No doublt the 2 posters who kept badgering you to pay up will be along shortly to appologise!

[rds60h]

No doublt the 2 posters who kept badgering you to pay up will be along shortly to appologise!

 

I won't hold my breathe !

I think I may be sending a letter of thanks for cancelling the PCN and then reciprocating the "Gesture of Goodwill" by advising them to contact the Department for Transport and perhaps even the Home Office to question their belief in having compliant signs for this Bus Lane, because all of the signs and road markings are only compliant for a "With Flow" Bus Lane but NOT for a "Contraflow" Bus Lane which they have registered this Bus Lane as.

[fletch70]

No doublt the 2 posters who kept badgering you to pay up will be along shortly to appologise!

 

NEWS FLASH

 

Hell has frozen over.....sorry that was just a rumour

[filrobbo]

Well someone has made a big mistake and you need to put this in your local paper and radio , so that anyone else that's as been find can challenge it.

[filrobbo]

This is a good example of council's that make up the law as they go a long.