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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi

 

I work in an office and stupidly borrowed some money from the accounts safe with no authorisation and had every intention of paying it back. I had 75% of it today to replace. I have went into work and I have been found out and now have been suspended on full pay. I have admitted i took the money and did not deny it and paid the money I had and said I will pay remainder this week.

I am worried in losing my job, I have no one to talk too as I feel too embarrassed to discuss with my family...... I would like any advice is to what I can say in my disciplinary meeting, I am unsure when this takes place, I am waiting for a letter

 

Thanks

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Hello there.

 

I expect the forum guys will be along later with advice for you. I just wanted to ask if you have a copy of the company's disciplinary procedures please? Some of your questions might be answered in that, or at least the information would help the people trying to advise.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi

 

I work in an office and stupidly borrowed some money from the accounts safe with no authorisation and had every intention of paying it back. I had 75% of it today to replace. I have went into work and I have been found out and now have been suspended on full pay. I have admitted i took the money and did not deny it and paid the money I had and said I will pay remainder this week.

I am worried in losing my job, I have no one to talk too as I feel too embarrassed to discuss with my family...... I would like any advice is to what I can say in my disciplinary meeting, I am unsure when this takes place, I am waiting for a letter

 

Thanks

 

Looking from the business's point of view : this is misconduct.

Your aim should be "damage limitation" in so far as to get them to see that you didn't intend to keep the money (so as to avoid any suggestion of it being 'theft'), while also aiming for them to regard it as misconduct (where you could expect a written warning) rather than 'gross misconduct' where they might dismiss you regardless of how long you have been employed there.

 

Many businesses would regard this as gross misconduct : if you have access to the contents of the safe that is a "position of trust", and they may feel "the trust has gone".

Are there circumstances that might explain if your actions were "out of character" for you?

 

How long have you been employed there?

On what scale (tens, hundreds, thousands etc.) was the sum you availed yourself of?

Are you in a union?.

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Looking from the business's point of view : this is misconduct.

Your aim should be "damage limitation" in so far as to get them to see that you didn't intend to keep the money (so as to avoid any suggestion of it being 'theft'), while also aiming for them to regard it as misconduct (where you could expect a written warning) rather than 'gross misconduct' where they might dismiss you regardless of how long you have been employed there.

 

Many businesses would regard this as gross misconduct : if you have access to the contents of the safe that is a "position of trust", and they may feel "the trust has gone".

Are there circumstances that might explain if your actions were "out of character" for you?

 

How long have you been employed there?

On what scale (tens, hundreds, thousands etc.) was the sum you availed yourself of?

Are you in a union?.

 

Hi

 

I have worked with the company 25 months, (just over 2 years. Amount taken was £500..... And no Im not in a Union

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Hi indistress,

 

well at least you fessed up and paid back most of the money straightaway. That's something!

 

When I was in the office and I admitted straight away and didnt try and lie about it. I said I had the money there and they took it off me

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Why did u borrow the money ? If it was for a personal reason, I would just explain that and you feel embarassed that you didn't go through the correct channels. Feel ashamed and sincere that it was an error of judgement rather then an act of criminal intent..

 

Yeah for a personal reason, I was in a financial mess. As I say I had every intention in paying it back

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Technically this is called stealing, not borrowing. You're lucky if you only lose your job, you might go to jail. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for Poundland"

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Technically this is called stealing, not borrowing. You're lucky if you only lose your job, you might go to jail. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

 

Hello san_d. The OP's thread title suggests that they understand that their action was foolhardy. I don't think there's anything to be achieved by beating them up more than they are probably doing to themselves.

 

We're not here to judge.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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As hard as it may be, you really need to be ready to look for another job. If you can put forward a good and valid reason why you did it, and you have a very sympathetic employer, you could keep your job. However, i wouldnt count on it.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Technically this is called stealing, not borrowing. You're lucky if you only lose your job, you might go to jail. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

 

Is it?. You can demonstrate their intent to permanently deprive the company of the money?.

You can read their mind?.

 

The OP has made a mistake which may cost them their job, and they know it.

It is only stealing if there was intent to permanently deprive, otherwise it is misappropriation rather than theft, and since the business was aware the money was missing it doesn't sound like the OP tried to hide the facts : so it isn't fraud either.

 

Misappropriation : yes. Misconduct (and wrong) : yes, and the OP knows it.

Gross Misconduct (and likely to be dismissed) : quite probably - but depends on the exact circumstances.

Theft (+/- prison) : I don't think so, and I'm not sure it is either reasonable or helpful to suggest so.

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Just remember, an employer just needs to go on the balance of probabilities. They dont need complete proof. If the OP can show a good and valid reason why they took the money, and it lands on a sympathetic ear, then a final written warning with retraining and possible relocation would happen. If the employer doesnt see it the OP's way, then the outcome would be much worse.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hello san_d. The OP's thread title suggests that they understand that their action was foolhardy. I don't think there's anything to be achieved by beating them up more than they are probably doing to themselves.

 

We're not here to judge.

 

HB

 

Thanks HB and to think theme to take it to courts it will cost the company too much. I didnt take thousands

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Without knowing who your employer is, the attitude of management or your previous good record (or otherwise), I think that the post advising that you need to be looking towards getting another job is good advice. In any organisation this will be classed as Gross Misconduct and you will be extremely fortunate to remain in your job. It may seem harsh, and you may have had very good reasons for doing what you did, but especially where money is concerned, trust is a fundamental part of the business relationship, and the employer may well feel that it is impossible to trust your future actions, or to know how often this has happened in the past. Remember they only have your word that you intended to put it back.

 

Mitigation is your only realistic option - explain frankly what happened and why, and express thorough remorse and shame, together with emphasis on previous good service. Begging sometimes works too.

 

I think a criminal prosecution is very unlikely, but again I don't know the nature of your employer's business or their likely attitude to this case.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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have you had any previous disciplinaries?

 

you may wish to consider the option of resigning, rather than getting sacked

If you have found my post useful, please click on the star at the bottom of my post and add some reputation points.

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If you resign, please be aware that your employer can give a reference such as "resigned while under investigation for theft". Or words to that effect.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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have you had any previous disciplinaries?

 

you may wish to consider the option of resigning, rather than getting sacked

 

Hello id.

 

The only thing there is that a future reference could say that the employee resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct, or whatever the case might be.

 

My best HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Without knowing who your employer is, the attitude of management or your previous good record (or otherwise), I think that the post advising that you need to be looking towards getting another job is good advice. In any organisation this will be classed as Gross Misconduct and you will be extremely fortunate to remain in your job. It may seem harsh, and you may have had very good reasons for doing what you did, but especially where money is concerned, trust is a fundamental part of the business relationship, and the employer may well feel that it is impossible to trust your future actions, or to know how often this has happened in the past. Remember they only have your word that you intended to put it back.

 

Mitigation is your only realistic option - explain frankly what happened and why, and express thorough remorse and shame, together with emphasis on previous good service. Begging sometimes works too.

 

I think a criminal prosecution is very unlikely, but again I don't know the nature of your employer's business or their likely attitude to this case.

 

For obvious reasons I am not naming the company for Data Protection. This is my 1st occurrence and I will be paying the remainder on the day of my meeting, which I did say to the manager today. So all the money is paid.

I have a good attendance with my employer and a good working relationship with everyone, and I can do my job.

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