lowell joined 3 debts [2 mobile, 1 credit card]made me BK, now want my house!!

[unclebulgaria67]

I cannot stress enough that the recent directions from the judge identified two preliminary issues that need to be determined before the actual appeal itself is considered. This is not the one and only chance for the OP to put her substantive case, unless the court decides that she shouldn't be given an extension of time to appeal.

 

The OP has not followed the rules and the judge just wants to know why at this stage.

 

The decks are stacked against ordinary people who do not have the means or cannot find good legal help via legal aid/pro bono.

 

The silly system of having to pay over £1000 for court transcripts just makes this worse. If you can't get the transcripts in time or cannot afford them, you are handicaped in making appeals.

 

Judges are aware of this and I expect while some are sympathetic, they will adhere to the rules and will not deviate from them without good reason.

 

At stake here is a potential debt of £30k including trustee costs, when the original debts were a few combined debts totalling about £1600 which are subject to dispute. There is suggestion that the main debt may not even be above the £750 threshold and the other debts are not even owed by wendyboats. wendyboats was not properly served the bankruptcy petition, because she was away from her permanent residence dealing with a family emergency. Yet the Judge has accepted at petition the method of service and has totally dismissed arguments raised at appeal, without any substantive issues about the debts even being looked at.

 

The courts have let wendyboats down and don't appear to want to help her with the situation.

[Ganymede]

You need to appeal within time. If permission to appeal is refused at the hearing then you need to appeal that decision before appealing properly (hope that makes sense).

 

The original hearing was in July 2013 and Wendy did not appeal until November 2013 and so is well out of time. From memory Wendy did not apply for permission to appeal within time nor did she ask for relief from sanctions under CPR 3.9 in her appeal in November 2013.

 

I did raise these issues many months ago but was shot down by the Mould and was accussed of trolling the thread because I was pressing the Mould for answers he could not give.

 

Wendy will need to have some very good reasons to be allowed permission to appeal so late and I'm not sure I've heard any as of yet.

[Guest]

wendy

re yr post #886, you say have already submitted appeal request with reasons for appeal? and seems J has that to hand as mentioned in the order?

so now re that order, as others say, is reasons for the 'delay' for the J to consider whether to allow things (yr app'n) out of time? and whether to allow a stay in the meantime?

you mention that you had to submit things all over again, maybe that could be one of the reasons?

again, haven't read all, so if wrong ignore

[wendyboats]

The decks are stacked against ordinary people who do not have the means or cannot find good legal help via legal aid/pro bono.

 

The silly system of having to pay over £1000 for court transcripts just makes this worse. If you can't get the transcripts in time or cannot afford them, you are handicaped in making appeals.

 

Judges are aware of this and I expect while some are sympathetic, they will adhere to the rules and will not deviate from them without good reason.

 

At stake here is a potential debt of £30k including trustee costs, when the original debts were a few combined debts totalling about £1600 which are subject to dispute. There is suggestion that the main debt may not even be above the £750 threshold and the other debts are not even owed by wendyboats. wendyboats was not properly served the bankruptcy petition, because she was away from her permanent residence dealing with a family emergency. Yet the Judge has accepted at petition the method of service and has totally dismissed arguments raised at appeal, without any substantive issues about the debts even being looked at.

 

The courts have let wendyboats down and don't appear to want to help her with the situation.

 

 

Thank you for these comments Uncle much appreciated wb xx

[wendyboats]

wendy

re yr post #886, you say have already submitted appeal request with reasons for appeal? and seems J has that to hand as mentioned in the order?

so now re that order, as others say, is reasons for the 'delay' for the J to consider whether to allow things (yr app'n) out of time? and whether to allow a stay in the meantime?

you mention that you had to submit things all over again, maybe that could be one of the reasons?

again, haven't read all, so if wrong ignore

 

 

Spot on Ford, Yes I think I have been sending two of every thing since November due to my first N244 going to Winchester combined courts first.

 

 

I have written out my reasons and had hoped to try to post first class recorded delivery this afternoon, unfortunately when I went to print off the 4 copies my ink had run out !

 

 

I had a Doctors appointment at 2.pm and did not manage to catch the post for delivery tomorrow so will do first thing and pay extra for express delivery.

 

 

I will try and up load my points, Regards Wendy aka Watson still out on the moors xxx

[wendyboats]

Hope this worked I have taken out personal info...Please let me know your views please Wendy xx

[wendyboats]

So worried my friend Mouldy who has not met his Watson on the moors ?? I'm Still waiting ?? xxxx

 

TO HOLD MY HAND............ Was to understand, how much I trusted you. I hope you are happy, and of good health , and all your family are too,

 

With all this said, I must confess,..............I am really needing you, Watsons in a mess , needing advice , just like we used to do,

 

Sorry to say,........... Watsons in a dark place , and I know Mouldy, he will know the why,

but if you can,t come Mouldy, Watson understands, and she shall have to get by,

 

Watsons still here, sat on the moors , sitting a lone in the dark, I am always so scared about my decisions and whether or not they are right ...............

 

 

Wishing for Mouldy, and all the advice, that he often shared with me, but if he shall come.....? well we all should just wait now and see!

 

 

Watson aka "Wendy" worried about her dear friend Mouldy xxxxxxxxxx

To hold my hand just like before, and knowing you are their, will help me through this final stage, just knowing that you care! xx

[unclebulgaria67]

Hope this worked I have taken out personal info...Please let me know your views please Wendy xx

 

Wendy

 

It needs to be made more brief.

 

1) I was not made aware at the appeal hearing on x date at Southampton that I could appeal further, either by the court or by my Solicitor or a trainee Barrister acting for me. It was only via research including reading a number of internet consumer forums, that I could seek to appeal. His honour x, should be aware that the Judge his honour x at appeal, also dealt with the bankruptcy petition on x date, the petition of which I was not present, as I had not been served the said petiton, as I was away from my normal residence due to a family emergency.

 

2) This is the bit that needs to more brief. ( Going by comments about Judges people have made. They don't like internet forums that give legal 'advice'. If I were you, I would not mention CAG or any other internet forum, as the source of 'advice'. You could say that through Consumer forums and other information online, you have attempted to put together a case for further appeal. Then say that due to your limited financial position, you have not been able to find any Solicitor who has been willing to take it to appeal . One Solicitors x company based in x said in x month that they would like to help with the appeal and they the pulled out due to the trustee in bankruptcy issuing a letter which gave 14 days. It appeared that as soon as Solicitors ( who were well known to BW Legal) had taken on the case, that the trustee suddenly decided to put pressure on and this caused the Solicitors to pull out, as they could not put the appeal together in a short space of time.

 

I can't remember all of what happened. But it appeared that as soon as the Solicitors in Brighton became involved, pressure was put on , which caused the Solicitors to pull out. You could say that the firm of Solicitors were well known to BW Legal and very possibly Lowell Group, as they have dealt with a lot of insolvency proceedings brought by BW Legal/Lowell, with some success. Once the Solicitors had pulled out, suddenly some of the pressure applied by the trustee was stopped. There was then no 14 day time period, in which they would be taking action.

 

I think you need to make a bit more of this and then the other points needs to be bullet after points, because they don't relate to the questions the Judge asked you.

[Ganymede]

Wendy

 

It needs to be made more brief.

 

1) I was not made aware at the appeal hearing on x date at Southampton that I could appeal further, either by the court or by my Solicitor or a trainee Barrister acting for me. It was only via research including reading a number of internet consumer forums, that I could seek to appeal. His honour x, should be aware that the Judge his honour x at appeal, also dealt with the bankruptcy petition on x date, the petition of which I was not present, as I had not been served the said petiton, as I was away from my normal residence due to a family emergency.

 

2) This is the bit that needs to more brief. ( Going by comments about Judges people have made. They don't like internet forums that give legal 'advice'. If I were you, I would not mention CAG or any other internet forum, as the source of 'advice'. You could say that through Consumer forums and other information online, you have attempted to put together a case for further appeal. Then say that due to your limited financial position, you have not been able to find any Solicitor who has been willing to take it to appeal . One Solicitors x company based in x said in x month that they would like to help with the appeal and they the pulled out due to the trustee in bankruptcy issuing a letter which gave 14 days. It appeared that as soon as Solicitors ( who were well known to BW Legal) had taken on the case, that the trustee suddenly decided to put pressure on and this caused the Solicitors to pull out, as they could not put the appeal together in a short space of time.

 

I can't remember all of what happened. But it appeared that as soon as the Solicitors in Brighton became involved, pressure was put on , which caused the Solicitors to pull out. You could say that the firm of Solicitors were well known to BW Legal and very possibly Lowell Group, as they have dealt with a lot of insolvency proceedings brought by BW Legal/Lowell, with some success. Once the Solicitors had pulled out, suddenly some of the pressure applied by the trustee was stopped. There was then no 14 day time period, in which they would be taking action.

 

I think you need to make a bit more of this and then the other points needs to be bullet after points, because they don't relate to the questions the Judge asked you.

 

 

 

There is no such thing as a "trainee Barrister". A "Pupil" is still a Barrister they just haven't got tenancy yet.

[unclebulgaria67]

There is no such thing as a "trainee Barrister". A "Pupil" is still a Barrister they just haven't got tenancy yet.

 

I was just using the term given. But this is a useful correction.

[Ganymede]

I was just using the term given. But this is a useful correction.

 

 

I know I wasn't being funny but it will look better to the Judge if Wendy can use the right terminology etc.

[Desperate Daniella]

As promised, I'm reading through it now, wendyboats.

[unclebulgaria67]

As promised, I'm reading through it now, wendyboats.

 

DD

 

The interesting time period is when wendyboats involved the Sols based in Brighton. If my suspicions are correct, as soon as they got involved, suddenly more pressure was applied by the Trustee in bankruptcy. When the Sols stopped acting for wendyboats, the pressure was taken off.

 

Makes me think that BW Legal/Lowells and trustee in bankruptcy are working with the same mind. Stop wendyboats from appealing, as if any appeal were to succeed, they would all lose considerable potential income. Not sure about the ethics of this, if true. Does not seem right to me.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Uncle,

 

I haven't been able to get that bit in because I don't quite get the time frame, but I have tried to draft something and would appreciate your comments/thoughts/additions/deletions.

 

 

 

1. I was not made aware by my solicitor or the inexperienced barrister he appointed to act for me that ... pretty much as Uncle has said.

 

2. From internet research I discovered I could appeal the decision and I was advised to try to find a pro bono solicitor to represent me. I could not afford to pay a solicitor as I had no income between April 2013 and November 2013 due to an error by DHSS which meant my income support was not paid. I had to borrow £2,500 from family and friends to pay my bills and also support my young grandson who lives with me.

 

3. It took a year to prepare the appeal due to BW Legal's failure to supply requested documentation until the day before the Hearing.

 

I'm muddled about the dates of the previous solicitor. You need to put her name and firm in and put in the dates she acted for you.

 

 

 

4. XX solicitors of Brighton agreed to act for me in August 2013. The previous solicitor sent my bundle to her and she said that she and her colleagues were happy to act for me. She stated that she had been successful in many similar cases and she posted my story on her internet forum.

 

5. I did not hear from her until 9th October. She informed me that the Trustee in Bankruptcy had given 14 days' notice that they were intending to apply to the Court to force a sale, and she and her colleagues did not feel they had enough time to prepare an appeal. She returned my bundle and said she could no longer act for me.

 

6. I filed my N244 Application at Southampton Combined Courts on 12th November 2013. It was passed to Winchester Combined Courts who wrote to me on 11th December 2013 to say that the file had been passed to the Chancery Division in London. They enclosed form N161 which I completed and sent to the Court with the fee of £235.

 

7. I had no knowledge of the original Court proceedings until after the Hearing as I was away from home for some considerable time due to a family crisis.

 

8. I do not owe the alleged debt and can prove this. The original claim was for various debts which I do not acknowledge and by putting all three alleged debts on to one claim Lowell ensured that it would total above the bankruptcy threshold of £750.

 

9. Part of the alleged debt is for a Capital One Bank unsecured loan for £500 towards which I had made payments for 18 months. I was mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance which should be refunded and there are also default charges which should be refunded. Notwithstanding that I do not acknowledge the debt, if these charges in total were removed from the original claim it would not have been above the £750 bankruptcy threshold.

 

10. The Trustee who was appointed by the Creditor is now seeking a total of £xxxxx and is attempting to force the sale of the house which I jointly own with my ex-husband.

 

11. I am also a kinship foster carer for my seven-year-old grandson who resides with me at the house as his mother suffers from addiction problems and he cannot live with her.

 

12. I am also in bad health myself and suffering from extreme stress which can be confirmed by my doctor.

 

I would respectfully ask the Court to set aside theBankruptcy Petition which was granted against me so that I may be allowed to defend the original Claim and not lose my home.

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

 

 

I believe the facts stated in this Application are true.

 

 

 

Signed wendyboats

 

Date

[wendyboats]

Hi Uncle,

 

I haven't been able to get that bit in because I don't quite get the time frame, but I have tried to draft something and would appreciate your comments/thoughts/additions/deletions.

 

 

 

1. I was not made aware by my solicitor or the inexperienced barrister he appointed to act for me that ... pretty much as Uncle has said.

 

2. From internet research I discovered I could appeal the decision and I was advised to try to find a pro bono solicitor to represent me. I could not afford to pay a solicitor as I had no income between April 2013 and November 2013 due to an error by DHSS which meant my income support was not paid. I had to borrow £2,500 from family and friends to pay my bills and also support my young grandson who lives with me.

 

3. It took a year to prepare the appeal due to BW Legal's failure to supply requested documentation until the day before the Hearing.

 

I'm muddled about the dates of the previous solicitor. You need to put her name and firm in and put in the dates she acted for you.

 

 

 

4. XX solicitors of Brighton agreed to act for me in August 2013. The previous solicitor sent my bundle to her and she said that she and her colleagues were happy to act for me. She stated that she had been successful in many similar cases and she posted my story on her internet forum.

 

5. I did not hear from her until 9th October. She informed me that the Trustee in Bankruptcy had given 14 days' notice that they were intending to apply to the Court to force a sale, and she and her colleagues did not feel they had enough time to prepare an appeal. She returned my bundle and said she could no longer act for me.

 

6. I filed my N244 Application at Southampton Combined Courts on 12th November 2013. It was passed to Winchester Combined Courts who wrote to me on 11th December 2013 to say that the file had been passed to the Chancery Division in London. They enclosed form N161 which I completed and sent to the Court with the fee of £235.

 

7. I had no knowledge of the original Court proceedings until after the Hearing as I was away from home for some considerable time due to a family crisis.

 

8. I do not owe the alleged debt and can prove this. The original claim was for various debts which I do not acknowledge and by putting all three alleged debts on to one claim Lowell ensured that it would total above the bankruptcy threshold of £750.

 

9. Part of the alleged debt is for a Capital One Bank unsecured loan for £500 towards which I had made payments for 18 months. I was mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance which should be refunded and there are also default charges which should be refunded. Notwithstanding that I do not acknowledge the debt, if these charges in total were removed from the original claim it would not have been above the £750 bankruptcy threshold.

 

10. The Trustee who was appointed by the Creditor is now seeking a total of £xxxxx and is attempting to force the sale of the house which I jointly own with my ex-husband.

 

11. I am also a kinship foster carer for my seven-year-old grandson who resides with me at the house as his mother suffers from addiction problems and he cannot live with her.

 

12. I am also in bad health myself and suffering from extreme stress which can be confirmed by my doctor.

 

I would respectfully ask the Court to set aside theBankruptcy Petition which was granted against me so that I may be allowed to defend the original Claim and not lose my home.

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

 

 

I believe the facts stated in this Application are true.

 

 

 

Signed wendyboats

 

Date

 

 

Thank you, Ford, Uncle , Ganymede, and DD.......... All so "very" much for all your input above.

 

 

DD do you mean dates of Pro-Bono sols ? that time frame was early August till the 9th of October 2013.

 

 

I am hoping to send off amended as above by express delivery before 5pm to day am panicking about time limit I have of only 5 days ! "BIG HUGS" Wendy XX

[wendyboats]

DD

 

The interesting time period is when wendyboats involved the Sols based in Brighton. If my suspicions are correct, as soon as they got involved, suddenly more pressure was applied by the Trustee in bankruptcy. When the Sols stopped acting for wendyboats, the pressure was taken off.

 

Makes me think that BW Legal/Lowells and trustee in bankruptcy are working with the same mind. Stop wendyboats from appealing, as if any appeal were to succeed, they would all lose considerable potential income. Not sure about the ethics of this, if true. Does not seem right to me.

 

 

This point is very true uncle as Sols quit sending back Bundle on the 9th of October. 2 days after the 14 days were up on the 16th of October was when Trustee sent "Without prejudice" e-mail wanting to talk with my ex-husband!

 

 

So you are spot on here WB xxx

[unclebulgaria67]

This point is very true uncle as Sols quit sending back Bundle on the 9th of October. 2 days after the 14 days were up on the 16th of October was when Trustee sent "Without prejudice" e-mail wanting to talk with my ex-husband!

 

 

So you are spot on here WB xxx

 

I think you need to at least mention this time period a bit more. The trustee was applying pressure to sell the house, when it looked like Solicitors were going to assist with a further appeal. As soon as the Solicitors withdrew helping with the appeal, the trustee in bankruptcy stopped this action. It cannot be a coicidence.

 

Also the point mentioned by DD, about BW Legal not providing documents for a year and only then providing them a day before the appeal hearing.

[The GodMother]

8 and 9.

 

Can l ask why you have not mentoned the other debts to the mobile. I only ask as you have always denied they are yours AND they are not a CCA agreement.

 

 

Sorry been following but not posted.

[wendyboats]

I think you need to at least mention this time period a bit more. The trustee was applying pressure to sell the house, when it looked like Solicitors were going to assist with a further appeal. As soon as the Solicitors withdrew helping with the appeal, the trustee in bankruptcy stopped this action. It cannot be a coicidence.

 

Also the point mentioned by DD, about BW Legal not providing documents for a year and only then providing them a day before the appeal hearing.

 

 

Yes and since that flurry of e-mails to get ex to part with his money to buy my debt, we have heard nothing since, so this 14 day time limit before forcing a sale was very sinister to say the least. WB

[wendyboats]

8 and 9.

 

Can l ask why you have not mentoned the other debts to the mobile. I only ask as you have always denied they are yours AND they are not a CCA agreement.

 

 

Sorry been following but not posted.

 

 

Hi Godmother, it is part of their claim, but was never proven as to being my debts, I have never ever had contract phones as alleged. WB x

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi Godmother, it is part of their claim, but was never proven as to being my debts, I have never ever had contract phones as alleged. WB x

 

Have you considered contacting the mobile phone companies ( if BW legal have provided account references) for a Data Protection subject access request ? At some point, hopefully your appeal will be allowed or if you want to take this further and you could do with having all the information available.

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, wendyboats, had to go out.

 

Don't panic if you have five days. Express tomorrow should be fine. It's important to get it right, and you need to make the amendments about the first solicitor.

 

As Uncle says, make more of the fact about the timing of the solicitor pulling out.

 

Also, GM is right. You should deny all knowledge of the mobile phone debts.

 

DDxx

[wendyboats]

Sorry, wendyboats, had to go out.

 

Don't panic if you have five days. Express tomorrow should be fine. It's important to get it right, and you need to make the amendments about the first solicitor.

 

As Uncle says, make more of the fact about the timing of the solicitor pulling out.

 

Also, GM is right. You should deny all knowledge of the mobile phone debts.

 

DDxx

 

 

Will do this after Grandson in bed, ready for the morning and DD, and Uncle thanks so much, l will include all above a bit more and GM point is taken on board, will be away from forum till after 8pm wendyboats aka Watson still on the case xxxxxx

[steampowered]

Wendyboats I was a little bit worried when you started talking about hoomin rights but I actually thought your statement was pretty good. The problems you have had finding legal representation and the steps you took to secure it are clear from the statement, which is basically what the statement is supposed to achieve.

 

I am a bit reluctant to dive into this thread as it is obviously very complicated and I don't have the time to read all the background or deal with it properly, and I am slightly at a loss as to where this is all going. But there are still a few points I'd make:

Don't insult your previous barrister and don't call him inexperienced. Insulting legal representatives is a no-no and will wind up the judge. You can however mention that he was a pupil.

Don't repeat the same points which have already been made in your notice of appeal. The purpose of this statement is to get more time, you should not treat it as an opportunity to set out the substance of everything in detail. I've never read the notice of appeal so I don't know what it contains.

The more dates and specific details about the steps you took to find legal representation the better.

[wendyboats]

Wendyboats I was a little bit worried when you started talking about hoomin rights but I actually thought your statement was pretty good. The problems you have had finding legal representation and the steps you took to secure it are clear from the statement, which is basically what the statement is supposed to achieve.

 

I am a bit reluctant to dive into this thread as it is obviously very complicated and I don't have the time to read all the background or deal with it properly, and I am slightly at a loss as to where this is all going. But there are still a few points I'd make:

Don't insult your previous barrister and don't call him inexperienced. Insulting legal representatives is a no-no and will wind up the judge. You can however mention that he was a pupil.

Don't repeat the same points which have already been made in your notice of appeal. The purpose of this statement is to get more time, you should not treat it as an opportunity to set out the substance of everything in detail. I've never read the notice of appeal so I don't know what it contains.

The more dates and specific details about the steps you took to find legal representation the better.

 

 

Thank you Steampowerd

 

 

I amended draft and did replace Trainee barrister with pupil as advised, I only refer him as that as that is what he called himself after hearing ?

I will try and upload my final draft later, I was pleased with it and im sure the Judge knows I am only a LIP WB x