Very Old Barclaycard Charges ***Settled by way of Tomlin Order***

[BankFodder]

On 27/05/2019 at 14:45, tnook said:

Realise it's the bank holiday weekend. Just wondering if any of the site team had any advice?

 

 

I have a look through this thread but I have seen the defence that they have supplied. Have you got a copy of the bank's retention policy?

[AndyOrch]

Posts #199/200 for defence 

[tnook]

Just to give you all an update. Nothing much has happened. Still waiting for a date and time for the mediation session.

[BankFodder]

If you are going to mediation, don't forget that there is no basis on giving any ground if you consider that you have the right on your site. Mediation is not about compromise – unless your position is weak. If your position is strong then simply stand your ground and give no quarter. Then later on you will be able to say that you did agree to mediation.

[tnook]

Thanks Bankfodder. The problem I have is that they are sticking to their line of not having the data. I don't have a way to prove that they do.

[BankFodder]

Then you need to ask them to explain why they have breached their stated policy for data retention.  Also ask them to commit themselves that they do not use some other data storage service/archive.  If they refuse to confirm then you might then say that you will proceed to a hearing -although could be risky.  You could tell them that if you withdraw the case it will be on the basis that they agree in writing that they have breached their own policy.

I'm afraid that I haven't gone through the whole thread or refreshed my memory of it

[tnook]

Ok update. I called the mediation hotline to book the mediation session and it’s a no go.

 

Although Barclays asked for it to go to mediation. They just declined and asked to proceed to court. 

[BankFodder]

I expect it was just a tactic to make it look as if they were willing and also to test your resolve.

[tnook]

So frustrating. I estimate about £20k in charges and interest in those ‘missing statements’  

[noomill060]

£100,000+ on mine    ...from 1986.

[craigten]

I’m in the same boat, HSBC have proved that they have contradicted their own privacy policy but won’t admit it and have stated they won’t discuss it anymore.

Bankfodder, if tnook does get them to admit they’ve breached their own policy, how will this help, please?

[craigten]

What’s the latest on this, tnook?

[tnook]

Hi all,

 

Latest was that BC had requested mediation, then after dragging out the deadline to agree an appointment they decided not to go through mediation. I spoke to the court last week for an update and it's down to me now to submit my AQ.

 

I'm away from home until Thursday, will be drafting it and put it up here for any comments. The courts mentioned that the hearing would likely be in December.

 

I need to think about what I want to get out of this, since they are digging their heels in about not having the statements. I need to somehow highlight how evasive etc BC have been, I need them to also state they don't hold records at external sites like Iron Mountain. I'd also like them to explain what happened to the statements. Not sure if I can get any of this from the hearing.

 

 

[craigten]

This sounds like a naive question but what happens when you email them and ask? Do you have a contact point within Barclaycard?

[tnook]

Yes indeed, I have a BC contact on the 'customer care team'. 

 

BC and their solicitor are sticking to the line "we looked and we can't find your statements".

[tnook]

About to send this letter to their solicitor, to highlight their ‘confusing’ actions and ask for BC to commit to not using external data storage or archives and ask what happened to my data. Probably won’t go anywhere.

 

Dear Solictor,

 

This is a request for clarification since I have been receiving several conflicting messages from yourself and Barclays.

 

On the 9th of May 2019 you requested a extension for your filing a defense, to be reasonable I agreed to this since you said Barclays were looking for the data I had requested.

 

On the 10th of May your last email stated you would update me on the progress of the search. You did not reply. Will I still be receiving my data?

 

I received notification that you and Barclays wished to proceed with mediation. I agreed to this. You and Barclays then without warning changed your minds and decided not to progress with mediation.

 

I find the changes in direction confusing.

 

My position is unchanged in that I do believe Barclays have my data. There is evidence of other customers data being made available, but only after court action.

 

I will consider withdrawing the claim if Barclays explain what happened to my data and commit themselves that they do not use some other data storage service / archive. For example an internal archive or an external data storage provider.

 

Your faithfully,

tnook

[AndyOrch]

What dates are you working to now with regards to court directions...statements and disclosure ?

 

Andy

[tnook]

I just got a letter in the post from the courts requesting the Allocation Questionnaire and court fee. They indicate a hearing would likely be early December.

[AndyOrch]

Requesting the DQ ?  Have you not already submitted one ?  Hence the mediation ?

 

Do you mean you have received the Notice of Allocation with directions ?

[tnook]

Hello everyone.

We have movement.

I think BC panicked.

 

The deadline for their witness statement to be submitted was today.

At 15:50 they submitted a N244 paid £255 to extend the deadline by 7 days.

Because they need to find the right witness in BC.
 

Their solicitor called.

A new one, last one left the company.

She wanted to understand what I wanted to settle. 
 

I told her I wanted my statements, or a certificate of destruction and written statement that they are not held by a 3rd party or elsewhere. 
 

I’ll attach the PDF when I get home. 

 

Court hearing set for Dec 3rd

Edited November 19, 2019 by tnook

[tnook]

I've just had an email from the solicitor. Basically saying they have no way of searching for the statements and again threatening me with costs. What do you think about their argument about not being able to search the files?

 

Quote

Dear tnook,

 

We write further to previous correspondence in which you indicated that you would be prepared to discontinue your claim if the Bank  either (i) delivers copies of the statements you requested, which we believe to be dated between 1998 and 1999, (ii) provide you with a certificate of destruction or another certified document that proves that the Bank is no longer in control of the requested documents; or (iii) provides confirmation that the requested information is not being held in any external/third party databases.

 

The Bank can confirm that it has carried out reasonable and proportionate searches in line with its obligations underGDPR. As you have been previously informed, the Bank has not been able to locate the documents requested by you, on microfiche or otherwise. Given the age of the statements requested it is very unlikely such data would be available in this context. For closed accounts dating back to the time period you have requested, the Bank does not hold the data requested in any of our customer systems or live databases. Certain historical records are held in a format known as microfiche which is only accessible by locating a specific reference associated with an account (and then a manual search being conducted of the historical microfiche records based on that reference).  As a result of the age of the information you have requested we can no longer access this reference which means we have no way of locating the microfiche record to confirm it no longer exists, however, this also means that, even if they did exist (which is unlikely) Barclays is unable to retrieve or access them for any other purpose and anything which does exist from that time is effectively beyond use.

 

In circumstances where any documents retained are “beyond use”, the Bank is no longer in a position to process any data that may have been retained, and will be unable to locate any such data notwithstanding any order made by the Court. We are instructed that there is a high likelihood that the data requested has been deleted in line with the Bank’s usual data retention policies. However, for this reason you will appreciate   that the Bank is unable to provide you with a certificate of destruction or definitive confirmation that the request documents are no longer in its possession.

 

If this matter progresses to the final hearing the Bank will confirm the above to the court, and request that no further order is made. We will also seek our client’s instructions as to whether to seek costs from you on the basis that 1) the Bank has already offered you the full monetary value of your claim; and 2) the Bank has explained that it will be unable to comply with any order in the form sought by you.

 

We are instructed that our client remains prepared to honour its offer to pay you £125 in full and final settlement of your claim, provided that notification of such acceptance is received no later than 12:00pm on Wednesday 27 November 2019 (the Offer). Please confirm by return whether you are willing to accept the Offer, following which we will prepare a draft settlement agreement for your consideration.

 

Kind Regards,

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

beyond use to who?

 

beyond use to them maybe but ofcourse not of beyond use to  person {S} that want £1000's of unlawful fees back they were cheated out of.

 

me thinks they are making up policies here to stop the flood gates opening up.

 

just because their data retention system and the historic management of it is poor and has obviously been poorly managed by their managers who no doubt got/have an annual salary of several £100'000, why should the consumers have to suffer such poor service??

 

smacks of a need for Barclays to investigate how this has been allowed to happen under GPA and GDPR rules and regulations

 

i'm sure and I know we've seen it, that if they needed a customers bank statements to prove early non payment of a Woolwich mortgage in an on going shortfall case, they'd be on the judges desk the next day.

 

 

 

[tnook]

It’s very frustrating. Looks like I’ll not be getting my statements. 

[tnook]

The solicitor has sent me a PDF with their witness statement. They are sticking to their story of ‘beyond use’ and say they may or may not have the data but can’t confirm it. 
 

Is there a way to argue around this? Is it best to withdraw the claim or settle and look to another route? The case is in court next week. 

[tnook]

Just got another letter from the solicitor:

 

Dear Tnook

 

As explained in our previous email, and in the Bank’s witness evidence as served upon you today, the Bank is not able to locate or identify any of the further data sought by you. The Bank is not withholding your data , it has provided you with all of the available data it has in relation to you. Whilst we note your concern that the Bank is attempting to withhold your data in order to stifle any potential claims you may have against the Bank, we reiterate that this is not the case. Notwithstanding this position, it is apparent that any claim that you may have against the Bank relating to matters from 1998 – 2003 are indisputably time-barred (and have been since before your Subject Access Request was submitted to the Bank). 

 

Should the matter proceed to a final hearing, we are confident that the Court will agree that no further order can be made. We will also seek instructions as to whether to seek the Bank’s costs in attending any such hearing from you.

 

Notwithstanding the above, the Bank is prepared to increase the Offer to £150 in full and final settlement of your claim, provided that notification of such acceptance is received no later than 2:00pm on Wednesday 27 November 2019.  The additional £25 is to reflect the cost you have incurred by paying the trial fee. This represents the full value of your claim, and the maximum that the Court will be able to award you. Please therefore confirm whether you are willing to accept the offer of £150,  following which we will prepare a draft settlement agreement for your consideration.

 

Kind Regards,