What do I do? :(

[Bombaymix]

Hi. It's been a while since I started a new thread.

 

Previously been given some fantastic advise on these employment forums and hoping that somebody can give me a bit of direction with this problem.

 

I will start from the beginning.

 

I don't actually know where to start lol.

 

Mid May, my fiancée passed away. Totally unexpected and I'm still finding it incredibly hard to deal with.

 

I phoned work and explained the situation and they told me to take my next 4 shifts off. 2 of these were paid as compassionate leave and the other 2 were paid as emergency holiday.

 

I returned to work in-between my fiancée passing away and her funeral and completed my scheduled 4 shifts.

 

I made a request to my supervisor to have the 2 shifts (before and after the funeral) covered by annual leave. He got these 2 shifts covered for me.

 

Whilst attending the funeral another family member collapsed, suffered a heart attack and stopped breathing. She was eventually resuscitated but we were warned that she may suffer brain damage.

 

Due to this I requested the next 2 shifts off as further emergency annual leave. My supervisor was very sympathetic and assured me he would get these shifts covered. He requested I contact him should I need any more time.

 

My cousin sadly passed away a few days after my fiancées funeral.

 

Again, I contacted my supervisor and requested further 2 days emergency annual leave. He got these shifts covered.

 

Now. The next bit.

 

I had a message from HR requesting I contact them.

 

I spoke to the HR manager and she advised me that no further annual leave could be authorised. In total I had 7.6 days left (until early April 1st 2014).

 

I advised her that I didn't feel fit enough emotionally to return to work just yet. She advised me to see a doctor. I visited the doctor and he gave me a sick note (for 2 weeks). I contacted HR and advised her. She accepted this and sent her best wishes hoping I come to terms with everything as soon as possible.

 

During all this... We were all advised that the company we work for has lost the contract and a new company was taking over and that we would all transfer over under TUPE rules on July 1st.

 

My sick note expired just before the end of the month. I went to the doctors and he again signed me off for a further 2 weeks. I scanned the note and sent it to my employer and I forwarded the original by post to the company that is taking over.

 

Moving forward to 10th July. I received my wage slip and was shocked to see only 2 days holiday pay on my wage slip + stat sick pay + a tax rebate.

 

I contacted payroll and advised them that they haven't paid me holiday pay for the 4 shifts (my fiancées funeral and the passing of my cousin. They emailed back advising me that my wages were correct and that no holiday form was sent in for the shifts I claim I booked emergency annual leave for.

There was a bit of email ping pong where I pleaded with them to sort it out and pay me... In the end I asked for a final response and I got it... Was told that I'm no longer employed by them and to sort any problems out with the new company. They advised me that my remaining annual leave has been transferred to the new company and if they paid me the missing 48 hours then there'd be no way of them recouping the money.

 

I emailed the new company requesting they pay me. Explained everything, explained That I am now in severe financial hardship and haven't got money to pay my essential bills.

 

Payroll emailed me back and told me that they'd get a manager to contact me as he is the person who authorises advances.

 

In my email to payroll I requested either they pay me 48 hours pay out of my annual leave entitlement or if that wasn't possible, a salary advance.

 

The manager called me today and said he couldn't authorise either of my requests as I haven't completed a shift as of yet for them.

 

He did however say that he could maybe advance me £100 if I could commit to attending the next set of shifts. He said once I'd completed 4 or 5 shifts then he would consider advancing me £100.

 

I explained to him that I had an appointment with the doctor again this afternoon and that counselling that the doctor has advised hasn't been arranged yet.

 

I am also on anti depressants (I didn't tell the new company this).

 

I don't feel ready to go back to work.

 

Anyway. I'm broke. I was relying on the pay from those 4 emergency annual leave shifts to pay bills. The anxiety and stress that this is causing is doing me no good and certainly NOT improving my current state.

 

I feel that both the old company and the new company aren't doing anything to help me.

 

Any suggestions off anybody?

 

There is NO annual leave form for those particular days. I relied on my supervisor to book them in as annual leave ( this supervisor was made redundant on 1st July. I've contacted him and he said he put the shifts through as holiday). If the company didn't know about these shifts I were off I can't understand why they didn't contact me to see where I was OR pay me stat sick pay during this period!

 

I'm sorry if I've waffled on. I hope it reads properly and attracts some replies. I'm really at a loss as what to do. This £360 was to pay council tax and my share towards rent!

 

Thanks for reading

 

BM

[Bombaymix]

^ so sorry didn't realise it was that long.

[Emmzzi]

Hi, I am sorry for your loss.

 

Will your old supervisor write you a note confirming what he did?

 

I think it would also be useful to go in and meet with the new manager, to say hello. His first experience f you is "ill man with complicate forms." Anything you can do to change his point of view to "nice man who has had a rough time but is a good worker and will be back soon" will be helpful to you in the long run, even if it feels tough.

 

The longer you go without contact with an employer while ill, the less likely you are to go back. Make contact, meet the new people, see if they can help you back to work by eg a phased return when you feel ready.

 

xx

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm very sorry to hear about all your problems, it sounds like a very tough time for you.

 

I hope the employment guys will be able to give you some pointers. Having see what couselling can do for people, I hope your doctor will organise that. A friend of ours who lost her fiance last year was recommended to a group set up for people with similar problems. She has found it very helpful.

 

There's also Cruse who are bereavement specialists.

 

http://www.cruse.org.uk/

 

My best, HB

[Bombaymix]

Emmzii. Thank you for your reply.

 

In honesty. The new company that has taken over have made it clear that they are making our positions redundant. The date of this has been rumoured as between the end of August and beginning of September.

 

I haven't quite diluted that information. Feel that my life has been turned upside down and now with work, a job I've had and enjoyed for 5 years is coming to an end.

 

It's been said that we can all apply for new jobs but no guarantees we will get them. To be honest, I don't think I'd even reapply for a new job with a horrendous shift pattern and a 40p an hour pay cut.

 

Feel that the new company tried to back me into a corner by telling me that if I return to work on Monday then they could advance me some money, but if I didn't return to work and continued on sick leave then they couldn't offer the advance as there would be nothing to guarantee them recouping the advance.

 

Another thing. The new contract I signed with the new company says I'm entitled to 5 weeks company sick pay. (Due to my length of continuous service TUPE).

 

Would it be worth emailing them and asking if I will be paid sick pay? Or should I just wait and see if I get it?

 

I'm very upset and anxious that both companies who promised to help me out during this 'turbulent' time have pretty much fobbed me off.

 

I do understand that I haven't done a shift for the new company yet but this is my first period of sickness in 5 years. I'm not swinging the lead, just finding it hard to deal with everything coupled with the financial mess the previous company has left me in. Just wish there was something semi formal I could send to the previous employer asking for them to rectify their mistake and claw back the annual leave from the new company. What makes it even more annoying is they underpaid a colleague by 48 hours and when he kicked off and demanded they pay him, he got a polite message back apologising and advising him that the 48 hours would go into his bank account on the same day. He received his payment after faxing a copy of his holiday form over to them.

 

I mentioned this in an email to HR, that I was disappointed that other members of the team had their annual leave discrepancies rectified whilst mine was refused. The HR director denied any knowledge of this.

 

Honeybee. Sorry I rambled again! Thank you so much for that link. Will give them a call x

[honeybee13]

Honeybee. Sorry I rambled again! Thank you so much for that link. Will give them a call x

 

Hello again.

 

I think it's perfectly normal, don't worry. I hope Cruse can help, friends have experienced good things with them. Take all the help you can get, you deserve it.

 

HB x

[Bombaymix]

Just a quick update to this thread.

 

I've discussed with my doctor a phased return to work which will start next Wednesday. My employer has agreed to this.

 

The Tuesday before I go back, I've just been informed that there's a letter coming my way inviting me to the 'decisions' meeting in the redundancy process. I've been invited to apply for one of the new positions but I don't think I want to apply. The new position is a 6 on 3 off shift pattern and will involve working a number of different 8 hour shifts (days and nights) with a lower hourly rate and the introduction of unpaid breaks. This would basically mean that I would be working 2 additional days per week with a reduction in pay of approximately £240 a month. I'd rather look elsewhere for something with a more structured shift pattern.

 

The new company is quite a large company so I'm sure they're following the process by the book. Just wondering if there's a set amount of time that they have to give before making our posts redundant?

 

We have been told that the new rota will come Into effect on the 26th August and if we don't apply for the new jobs then we will be made redundant. Have been told today that if I decide not to choose to apply by this meeting on Tuesday then we will be served with redundancy papers there and then and out last shift will be the 25th August.

 

I've never officially gone through redundancy before (a small company I worked for once closed down and they gave us all 3 months wages and told us to clear our lockers there and then)

 

Ironic. Just as my head is in the right place to return to work after almost 8 weeks, my job will end just as I get back into some sort of routine lol.

 

If this had all have happened 6 months ago it would have felt like my world had come crashing down. With what's happened in my life recently I'm taking it all in my stride. Little seems real anymore and I'm definitely a believer that NOTHING lasts forever.

 

I'm not short of job offers. The job I've done for almost 5 years I've met a lot of people working in the same sector.

 

I still haven't decided if I actually want to stay in this sector or move on and try something else. I've taken up quite a few new hobbies recently so maybe it is time for a complete change now.

 

Thanks to everybody who contributed towards this thread so far.

 

Best wishes

 

BM

[Emmzzi]

BM,

 

I might be inclined to apply and see what happens in order to keep the door open. Yet more change may not be the best thing for you right now.

 

I am concerned that when you say "job offers" you may mean "job nibbles of interest." The market is really tough just now! It may be better to get back into a work routine first, then think about changing roles.

 

Think carefully, is all I am saying.

 

xx

[Sidewinder]

You would also be entitled to a four week trial period in any alternative role without loss of the right to a redundancy payment - it might buy you some time....or you might find that you are actually better off staying.

[Bombaymix]

Thank you both.

 

That's interesting about the 4 week trial period in the new role. I shall ask about that at the meeting on Tuesday.

 

It doesn't resemble the workplace that I know any more. Most of my regular colleagues have gone already and the few that remain are not applying for the new positions and will be gone on August 26th.

 

It's actually sad. Sure I've had a few grievances over the years but they've always been resolved and I truly believe that we earned a lot of respect from the client for standing up for our rights.

 

There's been perks over the years but this has been my first ever period of absence. The place that we look after is like an old lady who needs a bit of care and tlc (leaky roofs and sticky doors etc). We looked after her well over the years and feel now that we are being replaced by bums on seats who won't care.

 

The shifts worked well over the years and its such a shame that instructions were given to the new company to fix something that wasn't broke.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Emzz, I won't rush into anything these job offers, you're probably right... They're probably more of "if something becomes available I will let you know"

 

Maybe everything will turn out ok. I know though that I will be having a good look around to see what's available xx

[Bombaymix]

Ok. New issue now tagged on to this story as not to confuse anybody or myself.

 

As I've probably explained before. We were TUPE transferred to a new company on July 1st.

 

I haven't worked a shift for this new company yet as I transferred over (properly, attended all meetings, have all details etc) on sick leave.

 

I signed new terms and conditions which state that they offer company sick pay. A weeks pay for every year you've been there.

 

The date on my new contract has 2 dates. The start date with my old company (continuous employment) and the date a transferred to them. I always believed that the original date pre transfer would be taken into account and as per their terms and conditions allow me to be paid 4 weeks sick pay )I've worked (continuous service) for almost 5 years. The section in the terms and conditions state that you have 1 weeks sick pay (company) for each year of completion.

 

I received my wage slip this morning and they've paid me statutory sick pay only of just over £300 AND I've paid 20% of that on tax and NI lol.

 

Anybody with any knowledge know I'd there's anything I can do? I've emailed the company payroll department asking WHY I haven't been paid company sick pay when I've followed all correct procedures in reporting my sickness and providing certificates etc.

 

This seems to be never ending. Nothing seems to be going right. Last month the old company underpaid me by almost £300 and now this month, I'm almost £1000 short of what I was expecting. I've survived the last month by borrowing little bits from family and friends but know I won't be in a position to do that this month. My basic bills are almost £500 that's without the bits I've borrowed this month that I promised to pay back to family and friends.

 

Please, any advice would be appreciated. Am about ready to completely give up. Was hoping I'd reached a state now where I'm ready to return to the workplace briefly before starting my search for a new job but this has knocked me for 6 and I'm starting to feel very anxious again. Was hoping to come off these anti depressants but don't think I'm ready now.

 

Sorry for the negativity, I'm usually positive but I'm really anxious and upset again now.

[Emmzzi]

you do get continuity of service

 

the sick pay position depends on a few things

 

-was it in mentioned in your old contract? if so it is contractual and old terms apply; if not it is not contractual and new company rules apply

- is it described in the relevant policy as "discretionary"? If so, no obligation to pay it at all

[Bombaymix]

Thanks Emmzzi.

 

I will have a look at the section and type it up word for word.

 

I did t get any company sick pay with the last company. In my old contract it stated that I'd get SSP only, new contract states Company sick pay at a rate of 40 hours per week. Will dig it out and type up word for word

[Bombaymix]

Ok. A few sections from the main terms and conditions of employment which may be relevant.

 

"Your employment under these terms and conditions will commence on 1st July 2013. However, under the transfer of undertakings (protection of employment) regulations your start date for calculating your length of service is 03rd October 2008"

 

"Statutory sick pay (SSP): the first three days of absence do not qualify for SSP which only becomes payable on the fourth day of absence and to a maximum of 28 weeks. SSP is paid to staff who are not eligible for or who have exceeded their personal accident entitlement and company sick pay. It is paid at the current statutory rate."

 

"Sickness/injury terms and pay: company sick pay will be paid at the discretion of the management and will not be unreasonably withheld. To qualify for company sick pay you must have completed 12 months continuous service with the company and have complied with the requirements regarding notification of absence and provision of certificates. The entitlement increases on a sliding scale related to your length of service with the company. Company sick pay is payable from the eighth day of absence onwards.

1 year up to 2 years 1 week

2 years up to 3 years 2 weeks

3 years up to 4 years 3 weeks

4 years up to 5 years 4 weeks

5 years up to 10 years 5 weeks

10 years and thereafter 10 weeks

 

Where the company makes full payment in times of illness or injury, this is based on a pro rata of a 40 hour working week and incorporates any entitlement to statutory sick pay (SSP). Once company sick pay has expired there is no further entitlement to CSP until you have returned to work. The above entitlements are the maximum in a 12 month period.

 

You may forfeit entitlement to company sick pay if:-

•you fail to comply with notification and certification requirements;

•you make or produce any misleading or untrue statement or document concerning your fitness to work;

•your incapacity has been caused by participation in, or as a result of:

-substance abuse

-sports injuries or from other dangerous activities

-cosmetic surgery

-injuries sustained while working for another employer

 

This list is not exhaustive. Equally the company is mindful of the benefits when employees do undertake regular exercise and leisure pursuits and this will be taken Into account when co spidering the payment of sick pay as applicable.

Unauthorised absence, or failure to notify the company within the above timescales, is likely to both jeopardise your claim for sick pay and be subject to disciplinary action

 

 

 

So. Those are the parts that I believe are relevant. Although it does state that the payment is at the discretion of management, it also states that it won't be withheld unreasonably.

 

Just to confirm I have notified them correctly and provided them with screen shots and the original sick note in a timely manner.

 

What would my next move be? - if there is one

[Emmzzi]

Ok. So that is in the new contract, and you have signed it?

 

This bit here is the kicker

 

Sickness/injury terms and pay: company sick pay will be paid at the discretion of the management and will not be unreasonably withheld.

 

What's reasonable? Only the court can decide.

 

But surely you are no worse off with new company than old company?

 

Honestly - I think it is time to bite the bullet and get back to work. I say this with your best interests at heart; the longer you leave it the harder it is going to be.

[Bombaymix]

I know that. I've arranged to go back on Wednesday on a phased return. I've spoken to one of the new managers that I've met and Is a really nice guy. I met him before I transferred and I was an absolute wreck. Almost in a zombie like state... Sat there with my head in my hands in tears.

 

Have met with him since and I apologised for the state at the first meeting. He told me he had a great deal of respect for me and is amazed how I've come out of this without having a nervous breakdown. He seems very sincere and I feel at ease with him.

 

I have a meeting with him Tuesday before my phased return starts on Wednesday.

 

I don't want to be arguing with them but seriously I can't let this go. It's almost a £1000 that I feel that I'm owed. I give in without a fight last month with the old company who basically washed their hands of me and I don't know how I managed to get through this month emotionally and financially.

 

I've applied for a lot of different jobs over the last few days and hopefully I will hear something. One of my friends who is a manager in the sector I work in has offered me a job. It's a definite if I want it. A few of my ex work colleagues have gone to him through my association with him and he's employed them on the spot because I've told him that they're a good bunch of lads.

 

In your opinion... Do I need to start a grievance? I've made my mind up that I can't work there any more and will be accepting redundancy. It's best for me. My fiancée got me the job at this place and its a constant reminder. Felt myself heading for a panic attack the last shift I done there.

 

I really appreciate your advice Emmzzi. I do think I'm starting to think straight now. I just know that I don't want to accept one of these new positions. Is be working 6 shifts a week instead of 4 with a lower hourly rate and doing less hours in total a week. I'd be approximately £200 worse off a month for working 2 extra days.

 

There's other issues regarding my health that has prevented me from doing day shifts. My feet are about ready to fall off and the day duties at this site involve a lot of walking. A couple of years ago I got blisters on my feet caused by walking miles. Went to the doctor and he wanted to sign me off. I tried to refuse his sick note but he got snappy and told me "fine, you carry on walking round on blisters and you'll end up having your foot and or leg amputated". That is no exaggeration... Diabetes has messed my feet up. Stress caused me to suffer a mini stroke 2 years ago aged 31. I still attended work the very same night dismissing the mini stroke and not wanting to believe what had happened.

 

I'm not an unreasonable person. If I was financially secure I wouldn't bother chasing this money. I know I'm just a payroll number to this company and I should imagine they feel that they've taken on a moaning burden. Was looking forward to this payday so I could pay my bills and square up with my family (who have been absolutely amazing - I know I'd have give up before now if it wasn't for them)

 

I'm foolishly hoping that payroll have made a mistake and will reply to my email telling me they're putting the £1000 in with my wages on payday. Got to remain optimistic. Can't even think about showing my family this wage slip.... I was adamant that they'd pay me the sick pay as the new contract stated.

 

Any further advice much welcome xx

[Emmzzi]

Ok. Straight talking?

 

You are not in a mental place right now where I believe an ET is going to be good for you.

 

Same for a grievance. Stress you do not need. If you were still with the old company, you'd be getting no money. You haven't actually "lost" anything. You just haven't had a gain you were hoping for.

 

Once you have started back - a polite letter, asking on what reasonable grounds the sick pay was withheld.

 

And don't lie to your family, certainly not over something as trivial as money. They have supported you all this time. They deserve better.

[Bombaymix]

Thanks Emmzzi.

 

I respect you for not sugar coating anything and straight talking.

 

My regular colleague who has also gone on the sick with Work related stress has just called me. He also been paid only SSP. He's in a better place to deal with it than me. He's good friends with a guy who works in HR elsewhere and he thinks it could all be just a clerical error. He is emailing the company on behalf of my colleague and I suppose will know for sure on Monday.

 

Payday isn't until the 10th anyway so IF

[Emmzzi]

you are doing so well getting ready to go back. I know it is difficult not getting wound up over this stuff.

 

be strong!

[Bombaymix]

one day everything will make complete sense huh? Lol.

 

Thanks again. Will update Monday x

[Bombaymix]

Well. A weekend of worry for nothing....

 

Hi Bombaymix

 

Company Sick Pay has now been calculated and you will receive a revised payslip to reflect this.

 

Regards

Payroll Administrator

[Bombaymix]

Further question...

 

I attended a meeting yesterday and was told my position is being made redundant.

 

I've been told because of my length of service redundancy pay has been calculated as 4 weeks redundancy pay and 4 weeks notice pay starting from yesterday.

 

I'm due to go back on my phased return on Saturday meaning I will be working 2 on 6 off until August 26th...

 

Am I right in thinking.... I'm going to be paid these next 4 weeks regardless of whether I work or not?

 

I see phasing me in gently to employment that is ending in 19 days is pointless. I do understand that I need to go back to work and have registered my interest with a few places already.

 

I know if I went back to the doctors he would sign me as "not fit" until 26th August.

 

As always, any advice is appreciated.

[Emmzzi]

How much sick pay have you had, versus the amount they offer?

[Bombaymix]

I've had 4 weeks sick pay.

 

Told tho that the 4 weeks notice starts from yesterday. Date of termination of employment is 06/08/2013

[Emmzzi]

So I'm going to say that as the sick pay limit was

 

"I always believed that the original date pre transfer would be taken into account and as per their terms and conditions allow me to be paid 4 weeks sick pay )I've worked (continuous service) for almost 5 years. The section in the terms and conditions state that you have 1 weeks sick pay (company) for each year of completion."

 

i.e. not 8 weeks (you have already had 4) then if you are sick on your notice period, it's SSP.

 

Have they specifically said you are not required to work your notice? Is that the termination date or the notice date?