incap stopped (due to investigation) HELP please

[topCatDC]

Hi guys

I found out by accident that I'm being investigated by dwp fraud dept .

I went to the post office last month and no money paid in so as you do I rang them and was given a number to ring , the lady on the phone asked questions such as when do I get paid etc. , I though security checking no problem . then the bomb shell , she said I was being investigated for fraud apparently I was working (news to me ) ,I had been going to see my family who run a company and sitting chatting in the office. 3-4 days a week as my wife's father was seriously ill and I needed a break from it all . I didn't even answer a phone just chatted , so now my money stopped from April ,I get no money in at all and we have to live off my wife's wages .

any way I asked how long the checks would take and how soon my money would restart

and was told literally" how long is a piece of string "and the lady refused to give any details, I don't know where I stand or how we are going to pay our bills until its sorted

I was told also if they find any thing I would be spoken to under caution (I think)

so I asked if I needed a solicitor and was told why are you guilty .

I said No but I would need to know what my next step is . when she hung up .

so now we owe 4 weeks rent £95 week and 2 months council tax (I have spoken to the rent office and now receive £8 discount) but with my health not good and my wife's I need to find answers

and where I can get legal aid for this as we have no money

oh sorry about the ramble ,

please any advice that can help would be appreciated .

oh spoke to cab and was told don't sign jobseekers as that's admitting your fit for work

[topCatDC]

just heard the fraud team are going to there works officially (no idea what's going on )

[estellyn]

Unfortunately, without a decision there is nothing to appeal. But what you can do is be proactive, write a letter explaining the situation, send it with a letter fom the family member who runs the business, and if you can get them, statements from unrelated workers at the company saying you were just visiting and being near your family, and not working. Also send copies of yours and your wife's bankstatements showing no payments going in. In the letter that you write, explain you are in financial hardship due to the benefit suspension, and that you feel the suspension of your benefit with no contact or chance to explain the situation is unfair and has directly caused the hardship.

 

Also put in another letter of complaint to the complaints team, that your benefit suspension was unwarranted and has caused you hardship - you were not contacted, and as far as you are aware the only evidence against you is that you regularly went to visit family at their place of work (was this at a time when you'd otherwise be alone, if so be sure to mention that, and also any stress you are under and any mental health issues that might mean company of family is beneficial), also point out this action has put your home at risk.

 

Hopefully that should get things moving. Send everything next day delivery, then give it two weeks, and if you've heard nothing, call the woman every day asking for an update (or get someone to call on your behalf).

[topCatDC]

thanks for the advice ,,I will get on it now .

[topCatDC]

well some good news , I contacted the local authorities and Im entitled to £8 housing and £1 council tax refund

not much but better than now't

the investigator contacted me yesterday and I explained to her about my situation and she promised they would deal with it urgently yep right .

2 months so far. oh she also said after they go to the alleged place of work , they will decide if I need interviewed under caution .

she said also I could sign the jobseeker ,but I replied "no chance that would be admitting I'm fit for work" .

any way ill keep you all informed of developments . (I did wright down our conversations so it cant be twisted round timed and dated )

[topCatDC]

well I have finally got a letter I get interviewed next Wednesday

I was doing allowed work (or so I believe )or what ever its called, I was not physically working just instructing/consulting some one how to do a job .

so I hope I haven't shot my self in the foot . Any way knowing my luck lately they will throw the book at me .

I have decided to go with a solicitor for advice , I haven't a clue what details they have , so wish me luck im going to need it .

[tomtom256]

So your story has already changed from just sitting in an office chatting to doing what you see as permitted work.

 

They would have a QB9 wage enquiry completed by the employer if they have paid you anything for your "consultaing" which will show any hourly rate and hours/days worked etc.

 

All I can advise is get your story straight as to what happened and if you think it was permitted work stick with it and you should ok, unless the earnings, if there is any or if the hours worked is above the permitted threshold.

[45002]

thanks for the advice ,,I will get on it now .

 

Out of interest,when did you 1st claim Incapacity benefit ?

[jabba jones]

I was doing allowed work (or so I believe )or what ever its called.

 

Have you declared the work?

[kk3852]

Did you complete a form PW1 to declare the work before you started it

[topCatDC]

I did start off just visiting that's true , and for the last few months I did the same . I was asked to consult on some work , that's true .

I didn't fill in a pw1 never heard of it .

I've been on incap for 12 years , i have arthritis right through my body and colitis and have serious problems walking , in-fact doing any thing physical .

I did phone up and ask about permitted work and was told yes you can do 15 hours a week I never went over that . I did if I remember right tell them I would be doing it .

I never got any more info from them that I can recall , if I have been naïve and get in to trouble ill put my hands straight up for it .

I've always been law abiding

not sure what will happen or what they will do to me , but I'm expecting to be taken to court , but what will happens there I've no idea.

I have never claimed any other discounts or benefits including housing tax and rent .

sorry if I misled people it wasn't intentional .I'm just so stressed at the minute with this and other family tragedy's that have happened.

[estellyn]

How much were you earning?

[topCatDC]

How much were you earning?

about £90- per week I wasn't told how much was allowed.

I was paid fortnightly so near enough £200 per fortnight .

[tokenfield]

about £90- per week I wasn't told how much was allowed.

I was paid fortnightly so near enough £200 per fortnight .

 

 

 

the lady on the phone asked questions such as when do I get paid…apparently I was working (news to me ) ,I had been going to see my family who run a company and

sitting chatting in the office. 3-4 days a week….I was doing allowed work (or so I believe )or what ever its called, I was not physically working just instructing/consulting…I did start off just visiting that's true , and for the last few months I was asked to consult on some work…I've been on incap for 12 years , i have arthritis right through my body and colitis…I did phone up and ask about permitted work and was told yes you can do 15 hours a week I never went over that…about £90- per week I wasn't told how much was allowed….I was paid fortnightly so near enough £200 per fortnight

.

 

 

Well if I was the investigator and you had told me that story – you are bang to rights!

You go from – no I don’t work – to yes I have for the past few months and earned about £200 a fortnight.

What bit don’t you understand about working and being too ill to work that you don’t understand?

Permitted Work has to be approved by the DWP BEFORE youstart.

Your story seems to have developed as the factsemerge, attempting to try and cover up what you did

[tomtom256]

Well if I was the investigator and you had told me that story – you are bang to rights!

You go from – no I don’t work – to yes I have for the past few months and earned about £200 a fortnight.

What bit don’t you understand about working and being too ill to work that you don’t understand?

Permitted Work has to be approved by the DWP BEFORE youstart.

Your story seems to have developed as the factsemerge, attempting to try and cover up what you did

 

As long as it falls within the type of work that is permitted and the earnings isn't over the threshold limit your allowed to earn, then the DM should class it as permitted work regardless of whether you informed them or not.

 

You may be open for a civil penalty for not informing them but no too sure if they are handing these out yet.

 

It will all be down to what FIS has received from your employer and/or bank statements they may have obtained.

[estellyn]

about £90- per week I wasn't told how much was allowed.

I was paid fortnightly so near enough £200 per fortnight .

 

You can only do permitted work at that rate for a year - so anything over that you won't be able to argue permitted work. Also the higher level permitted work threshold was lower in previous years, so you may well have been above that if you earned in previous years. and anything 16 hrs or over also is not allowed, unless earning less than £20 a week.

[45002]

Out of interest,when did you 1st claim Incapacity benefit ?

 

27July 2013 15:51

I did start off just visiting that's true , and for the last few months I did the same . I was asked to consult on some work , that's true .

I didn't fill in a pw1 never heard of it .

I've been on incap for 12 years , i have arthritis right through my body and colitis and have serious problems walking , in-fact doing any thing physical .

I did phone up and ask about permitted work and was told yes you can do 15 hours a week I never went over that . I did if I remember right tell them I would be doing it .

I never got any more info from them that I can recall , if I have been naïve and get in to trouble ill put my hands straight up for it .

I've always been law abiding

not sure what will happen or what they will do to me , but I'm expecting to be taken to court , but what will happens there I've no idea.

I have never claimed any other discounts or benefits including housing tax and rent .

sorry if I misled people it wasn't intentional .I'm just so stressed at the minute with this and other family tragedy's that have happened.

 

OP posted this on 5th February 2009 13:42

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182068-suspended-from-work-but-contract-has-expired!!!

 

ok my problem is Ive been suspended from work untill further notice since 2nd jan 2009 but my contract has ran out on the 25th.......what are my opitions Im still under investigation for alleged gross misconduct (which I believe I didnt do) but Ive has no feed back, telling me if im still in employment, none of the team leaders are giving me any real feed back, just the same old line, "I cant tell you that at the moment I'll have to speak to so-n-so who is investigating, they will get back to you"

 

HELP!!!! bills are due and although I have been looking for new employment I was told that during suspention that i would get full pay.

 

5th February 2009 19:23

thanks for the info .

just one little thing as i was suspended on full pay before the contract ended will or should i get paid as usual .

any info at all would be Greatfully Received

 

30th July 2008 18:06

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?153957-Discount-for-gas-elec-if-on-inc-dla

I have just spoken to my power suppliers and there is a scheme

where you can get a discount on your energy bills if you are disabled .

according to EDF all the big company's do this but don't advertise it

it took 5 minutes and a couple of questions , (its called social care , its not a charity)

i now receive a 15% discount on both gas and electric.

hope this helps someone

regards TC

 

 

19th June 2007 18:00

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?95197-my-employer-is-making-changes-to-my-contract-without-asking&p=928737&viewfull=1#post928737

I believe what i have stated is correct but if any one know better please let me know I had 2 company's for 25 years

 

 

 

 

 

Well if I was the investigator and you had told me that story – you are bang to rights!

Edited July 27, 2013 by 45002

[tokenfield]

As long as it falls within the type of work that is permitted and the earnings isn't over the threshold limit your allowed to earn, then the DM should class it as permitted work regardless of whether you informed them or not.

 

You may be open for a civil penalty for not informing them but no too sure if they are handing these out yet.

 

It will all be down to what FIS has received from your employer and/or bank statements they may have obtained.

 

I agree " the type of work that is permitted and the earnings isn't over the threshold limit your allowed to earn, then the DM should class it as permitted work regardless of whether you informed them or not", but you cannot expect the DM to agree it AFTER the event. Given the number of times the poster has changed their story, how is the OP ever going to prove to the DM that the work undertaken was not contrary to that claimed that resulted in ESA being granted.

 

Are you suggesting that if someone is caught working for 11 months and earning less than the limit at the time they can just walk away with telling the DM that it was PM? There is a lot of suspicion here. I feel that the OP is trying to 'fit' their circumstances into such an argument that they can walk away with being caught out.

 

Getting a DM to view it now will be a lot harder than if they had contacted them beforehand and had a ruling before undertaking any work.

 

If what you say everybody in this situation (hours and duration) can use this get out clause - i'm surprised that it isn't used more often by other benefit cheats.

[tokenfield]

OP posted this on 5th February 2009 13:42

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182068-suspended-from-work-but-contract-has-expired!!!

 

 

 

5th February 2009 19:23

 

 

30th July 2008 18:06

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?153957-Discount-for-gas-elec-if-on-inc-dla

 

 

 

19th June 2007 18:00

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?95197-my-employer-is-making-changes-to-my-contract-without-asking&p=928737&viewfull=1#post928737

 

Umm serial ******* in my opinion.

[tomtom256]

I agree " the type of work that is permitted and the earnings isn't over the threshold limit your allowed to earn, then the DM should class it as permitted work regardless of whether you informed them or not", but you cannot expect the DM to agree it AFTER the event. Given the number of times the poster has changed their story, how is the OP ever going to prove to the DM that the work undertaken was not contrary to that claimed that resulted in ESA being granted.

 

Are you suggesting that if someone is caught working for 11 months and earning less than the limit at the time they can just walk away with telling the DM that it was PM? There is a lot of suspicion here. I feel that the OP is trying to 'fit' their circumstances into such an argument that they can walk away with being caught out.

 

Getting a DM to view it now will be a lot harder than if they had contacted them beforehand and had a ruling before undertaking any work.

 

If what you say everybody in this situation (hours and duration) can use this get out clause - i'm surprised that it isn't used more often by other benefit cheats.

 

That is exactly what a DM would do under ESA or have in the majority of cases I have looked at.

 

Incap is slighlty different which is what the OP is on, however the DM will still generally go down the permitted work route if it fits all the criteria.

 

Obviously if they are over the hours/earnings threshold then it is a different kettle of fish.

 

I know the story has changed to suit, but until the IUC they will not know what FIS has.

[topCatDC]

well just to let you know the dwp have sent a letter saying I have been over paid a large amount (total with held) and they want it back (which is fine by me as I wasn't trying to [problem] any one as I told them in my iuc , ) any way I 'm non the wiser what happens now with the process , the dwp are claiming I have been working for 7 years which I have not done , my old bank account shows payments of £75 a week going in from the company but I did not work for it , and have no way of proving it .

I did explain things in the iuc as best I could ,.

they contacted the company I was at and said" its going to court" (this was the lady who did the iuc ) but then she has said "it might or might not be" .

can she decide or is it up to a higher authority . oh I've also lost my mobility car as part of this so I'm now stuck in the house unless my wife or some one takes me out .

I did hold my hands straight up to the work part of the investigation and explained I did seek permission first . , how ever I have no idea what's going to happen now .

 

thanks to the people who advised on my questions and I didn't mean to mislead any one .

[jabba jones]

how ever I have no idea what's going to happen now .

 

A file of the case will now be sent to the CPS to consider prosecution. The investigator had to contact your employer again as they are classed as a witness & could be called if the case gets to court & you plead not guilty.

[topCatDC]

A file of the case will now be sent to the CPS to consider prosecution. The investigator had to contact your employer again as they are classed as a witness & could be called if the case gets to court & you plead not guilty.

 

Thanks for the reply at least I know now , thanks again .

[45002]

well just to let you know the dwp have sent a letter saying I have been over paid a large amount (total with held) and they want it back (which is fine by me as I wasn't trying to [problem] any one as I told them in my iuc , ) any way I 'm non the wiser what happens now with the process , the dwp are claiming I have been working for 7 years which I have not done , my old bank account shows payments of £75 a week going in from the company but I did not work for it , and have no way of proving it .

I did explain things in the iuc as best I could ,.

they contacted the company I was at and said" its going to court" (this was the lady who did the iuc ) but then she has said "it might or might not be" .

can she decide or is it up to a higher authority . oh I've also lost my mobility car as part of this so I'm now stuck in the house unless my wife or some one takes me out .

I did hold my hands straight up to the work part of the investigation and explained I did seek permission first . , how ever I have no idea what's going to happen now .

 

thanks to the people who advised on my questions and I didn't mean to mislead any one .

Thanks for the reply at least I know now , thanks again .

.

 

So can you tell us then how much they are asking you to repay !

Edited November 5, 2013 by 45002

[topCatDC]

.

 

So can you tell us then how much they are asking you to repay !

 

not at the minute sorry , I'm contesting the amount as they say 7 years and that's defo not true .