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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Paying Advantis DCA - i'm a year in advance on Council Tax bill!!


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Hey,

 

I was just wondering about an installment plan I have with a DCA(Advantis) to be exact. It's regarding a Council Tax bill which I totally forgot about.

 

I've happily been paying it off until I received a rude call from one of their staff informing me that I've missed an instalment.

 

When the agreement was made, they clearly stated in the mirander at the end of the call something to the effect of:

 

You have agreed to pay 'x' amout of installments, each of £5 followed by a final payment of £y.00
etc.

 

 

Having followed this, last year I knew that this year I was going to be somewhat financially strapped so I purpously paid off 3 x per month individual £5 instalments (as opposed to a whole £15) sticking to their agreement.

 

Today they called me up stating I've missed an installment as a 'minimum of £5 a month is expected). This wasn't agreed in the first place.

 

I told them, if this were the case (I counted all the installments), I would be paid up to April 2014!

 

They said it didn't work like that...

 

is this the case?

 

1) They never mentioned a minimum / month

2) They said x amount of payments in total, which I'm MORE than ahead on

3) Any idea's or templates about I can use about THEM breaking an agreement i.e. adding that a minimum / month has to be installed without informing me.

4) I asked them for a statement of ALL installments as their figures don't tally with my bank statements, and they won't provide this either :-/ They want all the copies of my bank statements instead (which I refuse to send).

 

Cheers,

 

A

 

155 views and 0 answers? Surely someone knows lol :D

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Why aren't you paying the council direct?

 

Get onto your council and demand they send you a statement re: this outstanding tax, and you want to see exactly how much you allegedly owe.

 

Inform them that you are no longer going to pay any of their chosen third party goons, and you will ONLY pay the council.

I think you've been had, it would not surprise me to find out some of this money has gone into the goons back pockets!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Sound advice from BB. Always communicate with the OC, especially with Council.

 

Ah thanks for that... I didnt realise that, I thought (and Advantis Credit) always made it apparent that they may enter into litigation if I miss payments.

 

Notts Council it is!

 

Cheers!

 

A

 

That reminds me... When they called, the call went likethis befire I confirmed details:

 

CAller: Hi is this Adrian

Myself: yes

Caller: My ADrian

Myself: Uh, why?

CAller: Can you confirm you live at

 

Is that even allowed?

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Advantis credit cannollt take you to court as they do not own the debt. Hence why best to deal directly with Council. Time for you to take control. Get the information from the council re payments made and balance and see if it tallies with your records.

 

Then write a simple letter to them explaining your actions about prepayments and tell them you will continue to pay the required amounts direct to them only, not some ****** DCA. If money gone missing, ie to dca will need a strongly worded response but come back when you have the info.

 

A good tip when dealing with council is inform them you are sending a copy to your local councillor - this always puts the fear of god into them

 

Intend

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That reminds me... When they called, the call went likethis befire I confirmed details:

 

CAller: Hi is this Adrian

Myself: yes

Caller: My ADrian

Myself: Uh, why?

CAller: Can you confirm you live at

 

Is that even allowed?

 

 

I think it should be the other way round - they should ask you for your address to confirm they are speaking to the correct person.

 

To do with the DPA - I Suspect they are in breach if they give an address and ask you to confirm it - what if you are not that person?

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Is there a way I can 'demand' a statement out of them and demand a proof of payment to the City Council?

 

I've already been in touch with the council and they weren't able to discuss anything over the phone due to DPA, but are more than happy to send me all paperwork needed. Unlike their so called DCA, they were helpful.

 

I'm still somewhat confirmed that the DCA's so called payment dates and amounts' over the phone don't tie up with my bank records for the last few years.

 

Even the figure they gave me was apparently incorrect according to the Council. Unfortunlatey they weren't able to give me a figure *DCA again*. But I will receive the details in the mail.

 

It seems that Advantis credit have gone a little rogue here and are playing outside of the marked playground :-/

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Ignore the tin pot DCA, deal direct with the LA, tell them you will ONLY pay the council direct and NOT their chosen third party debt collector who has absolutely no legal powers.

 

If Advantis have been a little conservative with forwarding these payments to the council, then it is the councils fault, and the council will be brought to book, what they like to forget is that they are ultimately responsible for the actions of their chosen third party debt collectors.

 

Forget your local Councillor, CC your local MP in with any complaints or emails you send the council.

 

I'm not too sure what part of the DPA they think they are using, when they claim they can't divulge information to you, it isn't hard for them to verify your identity, and if they are happy to send you written details then that says to me that they are just being stubborn.

 

The only people you need to be demanding anything from is your LA, they are responsible for the actions of Advantis, and tell them your not going to be dealing with them again, your only going to deal with the council direct.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Sorry BB but think in this case local councillors have more direct clout whereas MP not likely to to do much. Having had experience of dealing with managers in the LA, they often live in fear of "members" getting involved in specific issues, especially with the threat of local publicity, so letter to local paper also a good idea.

 

Agree with approach - only deal with OC. No need to demand a statement - it is your right to this information. If some of the money you have paid has been creamed off then not your problem.

 

Intend

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Sorry BB but think in this case local councillors have more direct clout

 

Fair enough, no harm with CC'ing all of them in on the email/letter... I agree that Cllrs will probably be able to afford more time.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Notts Council isn't my LA, they were years ago, I now live in Kent... Its a debt which I've been paying off MORE than regularly. The only issue I have is that I shouldn't be paying off this last £180 which I've got left :-/ I left the property Jan 1st 2007 but they charged me until March 31st :-/

 

I can't get hold of the letting agent as they've closed down so proof of residency isn't possible.

 

I did offer them proof of moving to another property in another town (was signed in at the council), did work there too and did claim some benefits from there too as well as have proof of moving doctors too.

 

Apparently all of this information isn't enough to prove that I moved :-/ Any ideas as to what I can do about this?

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I would ask them for proof that you were there between January and March

 

As far as payments & advance payments to the DCA, some expect the payment every month and take additional payments as extra to reduce the time taken to pay - but much better to pay the OC instead

 

The LA will be looking for continual payment from the occupier or owner. If you moved out in December, there was either a new tenant who didn't bother registering until April (perhaps when they received letters and didn't say that they had been there since January) or the owner was liable if the property was empty (unless your rental agreement was until the end of March, in which case there might be a discount for an empty property)

Edited by 2Grumpy
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I've just spoken to Notts council again as a teamleader called me up. I found out that despite paying £5 instalments, they've ONLY been receiving £3.75 installments.

 

Two things to note here:

 

1) Advantis did NOT tell me about any charges

2) Neither did notts council

 

Notts also said that they won't recall the debt as Advantis are acting as bailiffs, which TOO I wasn't told about. I explained the scenario but all they said was 'put it in writing and we'll see what we can do' and that's it.

 

Apparently only in certain circumstances they will recall a debt from Advantis.

 

Another interesting thing is that the figures DONT tie up at all.

 

- 18th August, Advantis told me on the phone, the outstanding balance was: £359.75 (this is when payments started)

- To date, I have paid £198.26 leaving the balance at: £193.00

- Advantis state the balance is £270 odd

 

Any ideas as to how:

 

1) I can get the list of FULL £5 payments redirected to the council?

2) I can get this account pulled from this obnoxious bunch and deal with the LA directly

3) I can get a list of all payments from the council which they've received, as they won't do this either :-/

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Time to lodge a serious formal complaint with Notts council IMO.

 

Ignore Advantis.

 

The very foolish statement from their so called 'team leader' who either knowingly or otherwise, advised that these clowns were acting as Bailiffs, is wholly untrue, Advantis are simply powerless debt collectors, they are NOT bailiffs, they never will be, for Notts council to instruct bailiffs, they will have to go to court, win a judgment against you and then if you fail to pay the judgement, they would need to instruct 'court certified bailiffs'.

 

I've heard it all now!

 

Further proof of why you should never pay a powerless DCA.

 

Write to the council, instructing them that you are far from pleased with their handling of this, and you are making this a formal complaint to be dealt with using their complaints procedure. You will no longer pay any of their chosen third party debt collectors. You require a full breakdown of this account, and all monies paid too it. You dispute the balance they and their debt collector claim is outstanding.

 

Stay off the phone, keep everything in writing, and please ignore Advantis, deal direct with the LA.

This may be something the LGO could help with, if Notts aren't interested.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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@BB: Just to add that there was a court summons for a liability order, but I agreed BEFORE hand with a court clerk the liability and started paying Notts directly. It wasonly later I totally forgot about the bill and left it. Since then there were NO other court summons etc...

 

There was ONE bailiff involved, but I got it pulled from there QUICKLy so it was sent to advantis. At the time it was Rossendales. but then I had no charges from that. The ONLY charge I've aparently got is £60 for the liability summons from years ago before DCA's etc.. were even involved.

 

Also what's an LGO???

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LGO= Local Government Ombudsman

 

Rossers are bailiffs, but if they have been pulled then the LA will have to go through the whole legal process again AFAIK?

 

Advantis are NOT bailiffs, they are powerless debt collectors, pay the Council Direct.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

 

As far as charging you for making payments then they can only charge what is allowed by the Council tax Regulations, Schedule 5 Charges connected with Distress. have to be honest and say this the first I have heard of a Council using a DCA to collect Council Tax. Something appears not to be quite right methinks.

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