non-disclosed change of circumstance - worried sick

[khdesigns]

First post - so please bear with me.

 

I am self-employed - have been for years and was always the one to claim for WTC and CTC with partner who initially was self-employed too. He has been employed for approx 6/7 yrs now, however, I never changed the details with Tax credit people although I did make sure the declared money was near enough same as his actual wage.

 

Its very possible there will be an overpayment however, I'm hoping it isnt massive and I accept my mistake and will take a reduced amount , not a problem. However, at this moment I havent yet informed them as after a meeting yesterday with Citizens (which made me much worse) and an appointment today with a solicitor ( he helped a little) I am still unsure how to go about this.

 

 

The solicitor said honesty is best with them, but after having a look on the net I am terrified of what will happen - havent eaten or slept properly since Saturday and this is now Wednesday. I always knew about it - but genuinely thought as money was almost on a par it wasnt a problem. Main reasoning behind was I (stupidly) thought that if went through partners wage he would have been taxed on it and slightly worse off , therefore, left it going through our normal account with me as first named. I have convinced myself I will lose everything - kids, partner, and go to jail over this. The very thought of the word fraud terrifies me and I am a complete mess.

 

Looking for some genuine advice,help or reassurance in any way that someone can give me, that contacting them will not result in what I think it will.

I was all for not renewing when forms come back out however, solicitor thinks they may question this. It would be a big hit to lose each month - but the terror I am going through would at least stop.

 

Incidentally, this was brough to light as oldest is in college and the SAAS (bursary people) contacted us saying needed additional information regarding self employment for us both - mine isnt the problem. Yes, I always knew about the emplyed/ self-employed issue, however, I honestly didnt think of it as fraud and I am upside down now. I truly dont think the overpayment would be massive, although for 6 years it will be a couple of thousand possibly - its probably around £20/30 difference per week maybe.

 

Does anyone know whats seen as worse - the timescale involved or the amounts of money involved??

 

Can anyone help in anyway please???

Edited April 5, 2013 by citizenB
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[slick132]

Hi KHD and welcome to CAG.

 

Post moved into Benefits and HMRC forum where I hope you'll get some input.

 

Honesty is certainly the best policy and far better that you go to them, rather than they come to you having been alerted for some reason.

 

Please try to stop worrying and start eating properly. You'll get it sorted.

 

See what suggestions come to you in this forum...............

 

[khdesigns]

Many thanks for that, I will keep an eye out in the other forum for replies. I genuinely think its fear of the unknown(outcome) thats causing me the upset.

[slick132]

Replies should appear here for you.

 

You will feel a whole lot better once you have unloaded this burden by going to the Tax Credit folk and telling them you are concerned that you may have failed to supply updated or accurate info.

 

One thing you can do is ensure you have your own and YP's papers organised so you can get figures easily if they're needed so the TC folks can check the situation.

 

[scotgal68]

This is a tricky one. Why did you tell SAAS your partner was s/e too?

 

I can't understand why HMRC haven't realised your partner is employed as they use PAYE system to verify income and if your partner is paying tax at source it would be there for them to see. I would tell them you've made an honest mistake, that you've just realised on reading your renewal notice that your partner is down as s/e when actually he is employed. Thats all. Let them ask the appropriate questions and take the appropriate action.

Even if you don't renew your TC's you still have sign the end of year declaration to say that all the info you gave them was correct!

So it's your perfect opportunity to say you have noticed this. x

[khdesigns]

I didnt actually tell SAAS - they only asked for a copy of the tax credit forms initially and I didnt think anything of it at time, till they wrote back asking for further details on partner, then I clicked and decided no more. I really do want to sort this out , hence why have been for legal advice, I've just got myself into a state thinking end result with be worst outcome and can hardly sleep or eat over it.

Do others think that as mistakes go - this is on the smaller scale as opposed to someone who may be claiming JSA and working? According to solicitor they are bigger problems and more dishonest.

Forgot to add, my partners wage goes through the normal way and everything else is paid correctly.

Thanks again

[scotgal68]

Ah I understand now. HMRC are all about recovery and not prosecution. You have the perfect opportunity to tell them you've made a mistake. They can now verify your partners earnings.

DWP fraud/overpayments are dealt with more harshly than HMRC.

You could end up with an overpayment and penalty or

just the o/p. Come clean and take it from there.

Honestly try not to worry, easier said than done but as

you might have read on these forums the staff at HMRC aren't ogres, they will treat you with respect (if you report by phone) you won't get prosecuted xx

[khdesigns]

Thanks for that, I have no doubt I will deal with it, just wanted to know best way forward really. Wondered whether best to go to local advice shop and get them to help with it all, hence why CAB and solicitors. To be honest, it was citizens who said was fraud and panicked me, making things much worse. I usually deal with everything head on, but when end result is unknown I am scared. If advice on here feels that it is unlikely that prison would be end result then I can either call myself or try advice shop??

Thanks again

[scotgal68]

Do it yourself if you feel able, all it will take is a phonecall. You will get relief straight away by doing it yourself over the phone. Just say I've looked at my award notice and I realise I've been filling in the s/e part, when it should've been employment. That is all you need to say. They will ask you for more details if they require any. That's it. They might amend your award there and then x they'll confirm it in writing by way of a new award notice and if they decide to take action re overpayment, they will write to you separately x

[khdesigns]

Thanks Scotgal - do you genuinely believe it could be that straightforward with them? I was panicking as Citizens had me believing it was outright fraud and everything would be investigated , then possibly prosecution. I have no problem with any overpayment they can take whatever necessary - I was ready to give up right to all tax credits just for peace of mind, but that really would be a struggle with 4 kids.

Do you know of anyone similar at all, who have dealt with this and end result being overpayment only?

Your kind advice has been greatly appreciated.

[scotgal68]

I don't know anybody with the same circumstances as you, but I do know of other instances where a there was a failure to report a change was accepted as a change of circumstances. It's not as if you weren't declaring his income, if you've given them accurate income figures as you've said then I honestly can't see it being a huge issue, that said, you'll have to report the change and hopefully they'll accept it as an error on your part.

Fraud in HMRC terms is when it's organised, involves huge amounts, deliberately not disclosing income/assets/. Pretending to have children and claiming childcare costs..

 

So your 'fraud' is pretty minuscule in the grand scheme of things. Just say exactly what I told you, wait and see what they ask you and take it from there xx

[Stan Lee]

Thanks Scotgal - do you genuinely believe it could be that straightforward with them? I was panicking as Citizens had me believing it was outright fraud and everything would be investigated , then possibly prosecution..

 

Historically, Tax Credits have been far more lenient than the DWP/LA over overpayments. If memory serves, they have two streams -- civil investigation, and criminal investigation, although they themselves state that they only follow the latter if they absolutely have to. One slight note of caution is that I believe a single, unified, investigation service is due to be rolled out around the time of the unified single benefits system (could be wrong on this) and/or I believe there may well be a toughening up on tax credit issues. As for when this is due to happen, I do not know. I say this not to alarm you, but rather, to encourage you to declare your situation to them: far better to do it now than wait for a change in climate at the HMRC regarding these issues, which up to now, has been lenient.

 

Also -- and please correct me on this -- but in terms of actual money that your partner has coming in, we're not talking about a major discrepancy between what you've been declaring and what he's been earning? If that's true, then I wouldn't lose anymore sleep over this: you may well have made a minor transgression, but a volunteer in the C.A.B. told me that he regularly sees Tax Credit overpayments running into the tens of thousands of pounds. By your account above, you are probably small beer, and I would suspect uninteresting to fraud investigators who are looking for bigger fish to fry.

 

So, to reiterate what has been said above: do a forensic analysis of your income over the last X amount of relevant years. Have documentation on your partner's income, his employer, and so on. Figure out exactly what he has been earning, and write a succinct cover letter explaining your situation. If I were you, I would write merely explaining the facts; do not spend a lot of time apologising (above and beyond a simple admission of error and a desire to set things right). Remember, it will be an assessor who has to sift through lots of cases like yourself -- and probably a whole lot worse -- and so he or she will want you to get to the point. Try and make their job as easy as possible.

 

I cannot guarantee that nothing further will come from this. From your story, I think it is highly unlikely. Do the paperwork, write the letter, and get on with your life. And your C.A.B. sounds terrible (I suspect a lot of it depends on the experience/attitude of the volunteers)-- try Welfare Rights if you have them in your area and need more advice.

 

Good luck.