Lowells stat demand, what to do next please? (several questions sorry)

[debtangel]

Hi Lowell have bought three of my debts.

 

MBNA Credit Card over £1k

Barclaycard credit card over £4k

Bank overdraft just over £600

 

I received a stat demand hand delivered on 21 January from BW Legal re the MBNA debt. Sent them a request for CCA by special delivery on 23 January, they signed for it on the 24th.

 

I applied to set the Stat Demand aside. I waited until the 17th day, so I could delay things a bit. The only defence I have is that in March 2009 I asked for a copy of my credit agreement to MBNA and they ignored my letter. There is no PPI etc.

 

The relevant forms to have the Stat Demand set aside were received by the court 7 February as I sent them next day courier. I have not received anything from the Court. What happens next with the Court?

 

Also, Lowell have until Sunday to reply to the CCA request as the 30 days will be up. What do I do next in respect of that?

 

After receiving the Stat Demand I did a credit check on myself and found out that they had bought the Barclaycard and bank overdraft debts too. I have sent them a CCA requests for both.

 

I got two letters from Lowells today. Re the bank overdraft they said they dont need to provide a credit agreement and sent the £1 cheque back, stating it would be on hold until they can provide me with bank statements. Can I do anything else here?

 

Re the Barclaycard, they said they have requested the CCA from BCard.

 

I have noticed posts suggesting doing a SAR. Is there any point in doing this? What can I gain from doing so?

 

Many thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

[unclebulgaria67]

No PPI, but what about charges on these accounts. It is worth doing SAR's, if you don't have copies of all statements to see what charges there are.

 

As for the set aside, I guess you will hear from the court shortly, as to what will happen next. I don't think there always has to be a hearing, but if this is needed you will be advised of this.

[42man]

The reason for a SAR is that on occasions Lowells ask for an adjournment to get paperwork, they will continue to ask for adjournments if they can't get paperwork which in the main they struggle to do. By sending a SAR you can pre-empt any potentially 'false' paperwork they try and produce from the original creditor, and you can also show that the original creditor was never able to provide x paperwork or y paperwork too....on a few occasions the original creditors can't even find an account for the named person. You also need to show that you are making more than a reasonable attempt to get paperwork, and unless you get some help from a judge in disclosure then the process can go on.

[DonkeyB]

This second CCA request was a bit pointless to some extent. In itself it’s no defence, as you probably realise, as it was requested after the SD was served.

 

Do you have proof of sending the first CCA request to MBNA?

 

Did you check that the court you sent the set aside app to actually deals with SDs? BW are known to get the court wrong on their forms.

 

Maybe get a CCA request in for the other CC account. The O/D is under £750, so an SD can’t be issued. If they lump them together, the CCA request (if unfulfilled) will stuff them.

[debtangel]

Thanks for the prompt replies. I will get a SAR done asap.

 

I have got proof of the 1st request for CCA in 2009, I sent it Recorded Delivery.

 

Regarding Lowell not replying to the CCA request, 30 days is up on Sunday. I think I saw something mentioned about non-compliance on here somewhere. Is there a template?

 

Many thanks

 

Edited to say I have done a CCA request on the other card when I found out they bought it at the end of January.

[DonkeyB]

Good.

 

Did you put the account in dispute with MBNA?

[debtangel]

Yes, I sent them two letters in 2009 which I copied for the Court too. The 2nd recorded the dispute. Sent them both recorded delivery thankfully.

[DonkeyB]

Brilliant. You have this in as good shape as you can.

[debtangel]

Hi I can I just ask about the bank account debt? They said they don't need to do a CCA. In their letter they put as follows:

 

"We refer to your request for a copy of your original credit agreement in according with the provisions of the section 77(1) and / or 78(1) if the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Please find enclosed the £1 fee sent with your letter.

 

This account from which the above account is due relates to a bank account that you held with XXXXX Bank plc. Whilst this account is a regulated agreement we would refer you to Section 74(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, whereby any requirement to supply a copy of the agreement is exempt for current bank accounts.

 

We have, however requested statements from the original creditor which will show how the balance we have requested is made up. These will be forwarded to you upon receipt.

 

Please be assured you account has been placed on hold until the requested statements have been received, at which point we will require your proposals for payment"

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes it is correct that the CCA request does not apply for Bank current accounts.

[debtangel]

Hi there. A little update and advice needed please.

 

I have still not received a copy of the credit agreement from Lowell. It has been 14 days (12+2) and a further 30 days since I requested it. As they have not complied, what do I do now?

 

I received a letter from their Solicitors this morning with a copy of a letter from the court. The hearing to set the Stat Demand aside is listed for 30 April for 30 minutes. It is dated 12 February but has taken them nearly a month to send it to me, I have never received anything directly from the court.

 

I have put in a SAR request but have not received a reply as yet.

[unclebulgaria67]

Check with the court as to whether they have your correct address and why the set aside hearing was not advised to you directly.

 

As for the non response to a CCA request, you could send the Solicitors a letter with a copy of your CCA request letter, advising them that this request is still outstanding. But it might then stir them into action, by asking Lowells to make sure they provide the CCA. You may therefore choose to just sit on the knowledge that the CCA request has not been complied with and use this to your advantage, if they turn up for the set aside, with the CCA request still outstanding.

 

With the SAR req to the original creditor, this can take up to 40 days, but do chase up if it goes beyond this.

[debtangel]

Yeh thats a good idea, i'll leave it for now.

 

Thank you, it's much appreciated.

 

Btw I rang the court, they have my address correct and said they had sent it to me. It must have got lost in the post.

[debtangel]

Hi need a little urgent help now. Received a CCA from Lowell today, but it is not a true copy and not signed.

 

I opened the account in 2006, the chap at Debtline told me it had to be signed if it was taken out before 2007. But according to the letter Lowell sent with they say the account opened over the internet are subject to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 which came into effect on 31 December 2004. Was the chap at Debtline wrong then?

 

Also, it states charge for £12 each time the account goes over your credit limit. Surely charges were more than £12 in 2006?

 

I'm still waiting on the SAR

[unclebulgaria67]

Lowell are correct, re a CCA taken out online which carried your electronic signature ( an X in the box to confirm you have read t&c's etc )

 

However the CCA must be the one that applied to your account at the time and when it comes to court, I would expect them to provide something with your name/address plus other relevant details showing. Even though you applied online, the original creditor would have sent a CCA to you or made it viewable online, if held online.

 

As for charges, I think £12 has been a favoured amount that companies have applied for sometime.

 

Not sure what the best way forward is. If by Monday you have not had any 'more expert' replies, click on the triangle and the site team will see how they can held. Over the weekend, some of the 'experts' don't post as much.

[debtangel]

Thanks. Could someone please help me?

 

Very stressed at the moment over this.

[citizenB]

I will send an S.O.S to 42man for you.

 

But from what I can see, you have an unfulfilled s78 request from from MBNA, but Lowells have sent you a copy of an electronic application. Did you apply online for the account ?

 

On the copy document that you have is there an IP address somewhere ? If so, we will be able to check it for you and then you can confirm if it was the IP address you had at the time.

[dx100uk]

Hi need a little urgent help now. Received a CCA from Lowell today, but it is not a true copy and not signed.

 

I opened the account in 2006, the chap at Debtline told me it had to be signed if it was taken out before 2007. But according to the letter Lowell sent with they say the account opened over the internet are subject to The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 which came into effect on 31 December 2004. Was the chap at Debtline wrong then?

 

Also, it states charge for £12 each time the account goes over your credit limit. Surely charges were more than £12 in 2006?

 

I'm still waiting on the SAR

 

i've certainly got sar details from that era that shows £12 charges

15/2/5 fee was £25

11/11/5 £25

12/5/2006 £25

29/5/2006 £25

09/09/2006 £12 [switch was between 29/5 & 26/9]

 

HTH

 

dx

[debtangel]

I will send an S.O.S to 42man for you.

 

But from what I can see, you have an unfulfilled s78 request from from MBNA, but Lowells have sent you a copy of an electronic application. Did you apply online for the account ?

 

On the copy document that you have is there an IP address somewhere ? If so, we will be able to check it for you and then you can confirm if it was the IP address you had at the time.

 

Thanks. Yes I applied online, there is no IP address on the copy they have sent.

 

In my original request to MBNA in 2009 I just asked for a copy of my credit agreement, I didn't know there was specific wording I had to put on it, so it probably wouldn't stand up in court.

 

Also Thanks to DX, looks like you are right with those dates.

[42man]

They seem to have complied with a copy of your agreement which you signed 'electronically' (i.e) a tick box which was 'ticked' by you.....do you still have any statements, as it may be that you can check the interest rate applied in the agreement tallies up with the interest charged on the statements....have they provided a default notice ? I think as they now have provided the agreement you may be on slightly more shaky ground. I think you would need a friendly judge to come out of this one....without any other excess charges or PPI and with them providing a copy of the electronic agreement then you may not have many more grounds to fight this on....

[debtangel]

Thanks for your input, I agree, I haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

I haven't got copy statements, but I have put in a sar.

 

Thanks to all who have tried to help out.

[DonkeyB]

Some of what 42man said earlier in the thread still applies. If there are charges on these accounts, then the SD will be misstated. Once you get the SAR you can find out how much these charges amount to.

 

However, they could overcome these problems down the line. But using the bankruptcy laws to collected disputed amounts is frowned upon. Sadly, you also have to contend with the judge lottery.

 

In the meantime, contesting these charges is your best way to negotiate. It gives you a platform, which you need, because Lowell are extremely aggressive in using SDs.

 

Still get your complaints in to the OFT though – the correct route for anything contested should be the county courts, not bankruptcy.

[debtangel]

Thanks Donkey much appreciated

[debtangel]

Hi can someone please clarify The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/3236/made

 

I have got a Solcitor through Legal Aid (before they stopped it the other day) Now he is saying (and also Debt Advise service said) That any agreement before 2007 still had to have a physical signature, not just a box on the internet ticked.

 

The reason I am asking is that Lowell have provided a copy which is not signed and I took this card out in 2006. It could be a massive get out for me if the Solicitor is correct.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi can someone please clarify The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/3236/made

 

I have got a Solcitor through Legal Aid (before they stopped it the other day) Now he is saying (and also Debt Advise service said) That any agreement before 2007 still had to have a physical signature, not just a box on the internet ticked.

 

The reason I am asking is that Lowell have provided a copy which is not signed and I took this card out in 2006. It could be a massive get out for me if the Solicitor is correct.

 

I think if you took out the CCA online between 2004 and April 2007, then the CCA 2004 amendment you mention would apply and that they would not need CCA with a physical signature. The online application would have said, tick this box to be bound by the consumer credit act etc. They would never have sent you a CCA to sign and send back, as I don't believe the 2004 order requires this.