Icy works car park

[Poor-Paulus]

I ride to work on a motorbike. This is my choice due to the volume of traffic I encounter on my daily commute. Now that the weather is doing its cold thing, the car park at work has become an ice rink. The car park has no public access. There is a small amount of gritting which is predominantly on footpaths. However, the main car park is left untouched and dangerous in a car, never mind on a bike. It is necessary to cross the car park to access other parts of the facility and people need to get from their cars to these gritted areas on untreated ground.

 

I know that places of work have a duty of care to their employees, but I am not an employee; I am a long term on-site contractor (if that makes any difference). I have contacted the H&S dept to highlight my concerns, but I've been knocked back with statements along the lines that they are doing employees a favour by gritting the areas that they do. I was also informed that I have a care of duty to myself and that I should not come to work on a motorbike on such days!

 

I will point out that this is not a small company and that the gritting is done as an apparent favour by Security which is not part of their T&C which suggests to me that this company doesn’t have a proper strategy for dealing with the icy conditions.

 

So, to my point. If I was now to slip off my bike whilst on-site, who would be liable now that I have bought this issue to their attention? I ask because I feel that there is a very real possibility of it happening and I want to know my legal position.

[Binary1]

I ride to work on a motorbike. This is my choice due to the volume of traffic I encounter on my daily commute. Now that the weather is doing its cold thing, the car park at work has become an ice rink. The car park has no public access. There is a small amount of gritting which is predominantly on footpaths. However, the main car park is left untouched and dangerous in a car, never mind on a bike. It is necessary to cross the car park to access other parts of the facility and people need to get from their cars to these gritted areas on untreated ground.

 

I know that places of work have a duty of care to their employees, but I am not an employee; I am a long term on-site contractor (if that makes any difference). I have contacted the H&S dept to highlight my concerns, but I've been knocked back with statements along the lines that they are doing employees a favour by gritting the areas that they do. I was also informed that I have a care of duty to myself and that I should not come to work on a motorbike on such days!

 

I will point out that this is not a small company and that the gritting is done as an apparent favour by Security which is not part of their T&C which suggests to me that this company doesn’t have a proper strategy for dealing with the icy conditions.

 

So, to my point. If I was now to slip off my bike whilst on-site, who would be liable now that I have bought this issue to their attention? I ask because I feel that there is a very real possibility of it happening and I want to know my legal position.

 

It doesn't matter if you are a 'direct' employee of that company or not. They are liable for any accident that happens on their property. Its the same if my postman slippled on the path inside my property, I am liable.

These company's have liability insurance to cover accidents etc on their property and they are responsible. How dare they tell you how you should transport yourself to your employment! Its good you have bought the icy car park to their attention, and they should make sure that anyone on their premises are safe, no matter what and no matter who. If you have an accident due to them not keeping their premises safe i.e inside their building and outside their building but on their land, they are liable.

[raydetinu]

Agree with Binary 1 up to a point.

The person most responsable for your health and safety is YOU!

and if you know the CP is going to be icy then DONT use it.

I doubt you would be succesful with any claim as you would be aware of the conditions.

Best to try and negotiate with them to find another safer parking space or route.

[Binary1]

Agree with Binary 1 up to a point.

The person most responsable for your health and safety is YOU!

and if you know the CP is going to be icy then DONT use it.

I doubt you would be succesful with any claim as you would be aware of the conditions.

Best to try and negotiate with them to find another safer parking space or route.

 

Thats crazy! They have a car park for staff to park in so they should make sure its safe. So does that mean for the whole of the winter all the staff are not to use the car park & find somewhere else to park because the employer's H&S dept don't want to take precautions to keep staff safe? If the employer knows the car park is unsafe & don't want to make it safe they should close it. The employer are responsible for any accidents that happen on their property. The OP drew to their attention the car park is icy so they should do something about it.. If he or any other member of staff slip over in that car park its their fault for not taking action after the problem was reported, not his fault for using the car park as a car park. He would be entitled to make an accident claim against them if he hurt himself on their premises.

[Michael Browne]

. He would be entitled to make an accident claim against them if he hurt himself on their premises.

Whilst this is undoubtedly true , there's a great deal of difference between making a claim and winning one.

[Bandit127]

As a motorcyclist you have a particular responsibility for your own safety that goes above and beyond that of any other road (pavement or car park) user.

 

As one myself, I would turn this in to an opportunity to learn how to negotiate ice on a bike. It is possible if done gently enough.

 

This may sound patronising to non bikers out there but I hope those that are (including you) can see my point.

[raydetinu]

It would be absolutely stupid to use an area that you know is unsafe for whatever reason!

making it safe is where the problem lies.

[Homer67]

As a motorcyclist you have a particular responsibility for your own safety that goes above and beyond that of any other road (pavement or car park) user.

 

As one myself, I would turn this in to an opportunity to learn how to negotiate ice on a bike. It is possible if done gently enough.

 

This may sound patronising to non bikers out there but I hope those that are (including you) can see my point.

 

 

Actually it sounds patronising to bikers as well

 

I've been riding since I was 16 on the road and before that off road (now 48), I ride every day and the only thing that stops me is ice, I rode in this morning (Essex) in the snow but may not ride in tomorrow if it freezes overnight

 

There is no way without spiked tyres and and a suitable off road machine that anyone can ride on ice and anyway, perhaps the OP does not have the funds to make repairs or medical cover to fund 'an opportunity to learn how to negotiate ice' as you suggest

 

However none of that is relevant as the OP simply wants to know what the employer or more importantly land owner's responsibility is towards their car park safety.

 

This should be straightforward enough - once the landowner/car park operator/etc has been made aware of a risk they are liable for any accidents that occur directly as a result of the known risk irrespective of the status of the claiment as a member of the public (if considered public access), employee or contractor or anyone invited or expected to come on to the land and use the facilities provided for that purpose

 

My advice is put it in writing to the car park operator and land owner and then hold them responsibile if they take no action and you have an accident.

[raydetinu]

Now that realy is silly, if you know it is icy or slippery and you still use it,why is it is somebody elses fault?

agreed if you are unaware of it, as a casual visitor and there no warning signs then yes maybe have a case.

Try suing the council if you have an accident on an icy side road.

If as you state in last paragreph you tell them it is slippery and then proceed to go on it and have an accident, you will get nowhere!

you have just told them it is slippery and dangerous and then go on it!!! wheres your common sense; if it is slippery dont use it!!!!

or are iinto nto the claim culture.look after you safety first.

[deano_uk]

there is no obligation for the employer to clear the carpark of ice. if the employer decides to clean the carpark of ice then they could be opening themselves up for claims of liability, eg- if they didnt do a good enough job, or if they only cleared a certain area.

 

ice is an act of god. if you are looking to blame someone other than yourself for a potential accident on ice then you could consider making a claim against god! or nature.

[Homer67]

. ice is an act of god.

 

Fortunately your God has no place in UK law, my advice to the OP is to ignore the whole of your post as it is completely incorrect.

[deano_uk]

Fortunately your God has no place in UK law, my advice to the OP is to ignore the whole of your post as it is completely incorrect.

 

Hello Homer67, Thanks for your opinion - which I also consider to be incorrect.

 

God has a place in UK law. Like it or not... 'An act of God' is a legal term.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Fortunately your God has no place in UK law

 

Really? So witnesses never make an oath starting with: "I swear by Almighty God...."?

[raydetinu]

Off topic, but you dont have to swear by god in court, you can just affirm to tell truth! ( no bible involved )

[Homer67]

Really? So witnesses never make an oath starting with: "I swear by Almighty God...."?

 

Not if your religion does not recognise a single God or if you have no religion and anyway, other than being a procedure to follow what does swearing on 'an almighty God' mean anyway - because no one lies in court do they...

Edited December 7, 2012 by Homer67
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