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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Big Fight With NAT WEST ***WON***


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I'd better pop an acknowledgement on the fax then.......FAO the idiots!! :lol: :lol: :lol: you're standard defence has been received...blah,blah,blah!!

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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I'd better pop an acknowledgement on the fax then.......FAO the idiots!! :lol: :lol: :lol: you're standard defence has been received...blah,blah,blah!!

 

I've stuck a letter on my thread for the idiots that I wil lfax later - take a peep and let me know what you think.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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I've stuck a letter on my thread for the idiots that I wil lfax later - take a peep and let me know what you think.

 

Sending an idiot to university doesn't make them wise it just makes them educated idiots.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Yeah, nice letter Giz, I'll give it a little tweak to suit my claim and pop one on the fax myself - direct to The University of Idiots!!!

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Hi new to this been through the FAQ's and different threads and keeping my eye on your claim Deller. Seems to get a bit confusing when it reaches the court stage and a bit worried about the fees although people seem to get them back it's a lot to pay up front should i just read through the first stage and go from there obviously continuing to swot up on the other stages i have all my statements just don't want to rush into things and make a mistake! Help!!!

Natwest Settled in full after LBA £337 :)

 

HSBC SAR sent 12.11.06

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Welcome to site Boo82, its a very interseting read don't you think, I've been spending hours following other peoples successes enabling me to get as far as I have, don't know where I'd be without it.......very skint and still paying ridiculous charges I suppose.

 

With regards to your query, its not really that confusing at the court stage so long as you follow the correct guidleines. I was a bit hasty when filing my claim, hence the rather stressful time I've had the last week or so. And yes you do get back all the fees you pay...when you WIN!!

 

Just stick to the step by step instructions http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-step-step-instructions.html

and you'll do just fine.

 

We're all here to help each other,

 

Good Luck! :D

  • Haha 1

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Didn't know there was one, where's it too??

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Got home from work this evening to find a letter from Cobbetts reading as follows:-

 

Upon consideration of your schedule of charges we note that you set out in your schedule charges incurred in September 2000. Under the Limitation Act 1980, you cannot bring a claim more than 6 years after the date on which the cause of action accured. You issued your claim on 2 October 2006, and you are therefore only legally entitled to claim between the periods 2 October 2000 to 2 October 2006. As suc, you cannot claim for the first 2 entries relating to charges and interest on your schedule.

In any event, our client considers that your challenge to its charges would fail in Court. Our client believes that its charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. It considers that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with it and its published tariff, which it is satisfied complies with all the applicable laws and regulations. Our client is also committed to ensuring the transparency of the information that it gives to its customers about the operation of its products. As such, our client does not believe that your claim has any prospect of succeeding.

However, as a gesture of goodwill and strictly on the basis that our client rejects any liability to you, it is willing to offer you a goodwill payment of £2000.

Acceptance by you of this goowill payment will be in full and final settlement of your claim against our client and strictly on the basis that:-

1. you agree not to disclose to any third party the fact of, or any details relating to, this payment.

2. you write to the Court withdrawing your claim.

Whilst this letter is written without prejudice save as to costs, in the event that you decline this offer, we will draw this letter to the Court's attention on the basis that we hold the firm view that this offer is entirely reasonable in the circustances. This offer will remain open for 7 days until Wed 15 November 2006.

Cobbetts

 

 

I'm sure this is probably one of their standard letters but not entirely sure what happens now. I don't think I should be accepting the £2000 seeing as though I'm claiming £4153.83, plus the £100 AQ fee once its cashed, but am I likely to fail in court.

 

The bit about the Limitation Act 1980 has also got me a bit baffelled, yes I filed my court claim on Oct 1st, but sent my prelim letter on Sept 1st, so am I not within my right to claim back to then? As far as I'm concerned thats when my claim started.

 

The bit that makes me laugh though is how one minute they're saying they don't have enough information about my claim, and then they're reffering to this same info in their offer letter.....IDIOTS.

 

Any help and advice greatly appreciated!! :confused:

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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The bit about the Limitation Act 1980 has also got me a bit baffelled, yes I filed my court claim on Oct 1st, but sent my prelim letter on Sept 1st, so am I not within my right to claim back to then? As far as I'm concerned thats when my claim started.

 

 

They're trying it on down to the last penny. The 6 years go back from when you firdt became aware of the unlawful charges and contacted the bank about them, ie the DPA letter if sent or your prelim.

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Cheers Michael, I thought that was probably the case but wanted to make sure, you can never tell whether what Cobbetts say is true or not.

 

Any suggestions on whats next with regards to response etc.

 

I know I've seen something somewhere but this site is like a maze and I keep forgetting where I've seen things, or the things I've saved are on work pc!!

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx.

 

I first contacted your client regarding their unlawful charges on xx/xx/xx and therefore disagree with your contention that some of these charges fall outside the scope of the Limitations Act 1980. However I am am happy to let the court decide on this matter.

 

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees, which together with the daily rate of £0.XX now total £xxxx as of XXth November 2006

 

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

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Cheers Michael, you're a star!! :p

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Could stick this bit in as well

 

. I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentially clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

I trust this clarifies my position.

Check out here for the Bristol beer drinkers!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/40934-bristolians.html

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The next step is really up to you, and depends how confident you are with the legalities involved. If it were me, I would tell them where to stick there offer.

 

I would also suggest that they should consider themselves lucky you have not claimed charges going further back, since you believe that any limitation would be overturned under the terms of section 32 of the DPA, due to their continued "concealment" of the facts that their charges are unlawful, or for relief from a "mistake".

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the help guys, and yes Alan I think I'd also be inclined to tell them where to stick it, I will put together some sort of reply using the points you have all offered. Should I also send a copy of my reply to the Court and ask them to attach it to my claim? Also, should I send a copy of Cobbetts offer letter to the Court so they are aware of the fact that they are trying to fob me off with part payment?

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Interesting to note, I've recieved no offer since returning my AQ! Funny how they play it differently with everyone. Would like to recieve a partial offer so that I'm that bit nearer the end. Not long now deller:)

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Cap One here we go!:p

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Hopefully not Fryster, who knows........we might even get paid out at the same time. That will hit Nat West hard, 8k on two claims. :lol: :lol:

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Right this is the proposed letter I've put together with the help and advice offered:-

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8th November 2006.

 

I first contacted your client regarding their unlawful charges on 1st September 2006 and therefore disagree with your contention that some of these charges fall outside the scope of the Limitations Act 1980. However I am happy to let the court decide on this matter.

 

Your client should consider themselves fortunate I have not claimed charges going further back, since I believe that any limitation would be overturned under the terms of section 32 of the Limitations Act, due to their continued "concealment" of the facts that their charges are unlawful, or for relief from a "mistake".

 

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees, which together with the daily rate of £0.XX now total £xxxx as of XXth November 2006

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

 

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentiality clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Does this seem satisfactory??

 

Anyone?? :|:confused::|

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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ffrankie yes you can, retrospectively 6 years.

  • Haha 1

My advice has hardly any legal foundation whatsoever, however you never know it it might just work!

:cool:

 

NatWest Prelim 07.10.206

LBA 21.10.2006

MCOL 30.10.2006

Acknowledgment of Service 06.11.2006

Offer of approx 50% £2200.00 22.11.2006

Full settlement £4500 received 03.01.2007

Smile settled in full

Barclaycard settled in full

RBS Worldwide settled in full

Lloyds TSB settled in full £750.00

Lloyds TSB settled in Full £275.00 11.04.2007

Lloyds TSB business account £1376.00 AQ filed

Lloyds TSB Business account settled in full 21.05.07

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Should I also send a copy of my reply to the Court and ask them to attach it to my claim? Also, should I send a copy of Cobbetts offer letter to the Court so they are aware of the fact that they are trying to fob me off with part payment?

 

Any suggestions!! :confused:

  • Haha 1

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Hi all

 

(I subscribe to this thread..... its certainly fascinating)

 

Well, as per my signature, I have never received an offer... but

 

how unusal is this? (i dunno)

 

No defence filed yet but received offer of £1700 from cobbetts on 9th (this represents approx half of my claim)

 

I will of course refuse (partial settlement etc), I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK eh...

 

It certainly seems true to say that they are dealing with us all differently, or hap hazardly.... wonder if they know whats going on???

 

 

Regards to all

:D CLICK MY SCALES IF I HAVE BEEN USEFUL :D

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BARCLAYCARD WON £307

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CAPITAL ONE WON £2.1k

*

NATWEST WON £3.4k

*

LLOYDS TSB CURRENT

Start 26/4 LBA 7/6 conLBA 22/1 N1 12/3 AQ 3/5/07ONHOLD

MORE THAN/ LLOYDS MCARD

Start 2/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

MONUMENT VISA

Start 1/11 CONTL LBA 15/1/07 NOW RE-RESEARCHING

NATWEST BUSINESS

RESEARCHING

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