Need urgent appeal advice - ** WON **

[wiggles40]

Ok, i'm done, finished with this appeal, huge arguments all round, son is just to laid back, i'm pulling my hair out as i see the wider picture, just had a huge fall out with him,left me in tears so i'm walking away from it all!! Has upset me so much all this but thank you everyone for your time and help!!! ball is in he's court now!!! so might aswell say he wont get he's job back!

You have all been a tremendous help and support and THANK YOU x

[honeybee13]

Oh that's sad. Do your best to let this wash over you now, you've done as much as you can.

 

Maybe your son will remember CAG and come here to ask his own questions...

 

HB

[wiggles40]

Thank you HB

 

I will pop on end of week and let everyone know the outcome, although i thinks its plain what it will be, as its the least i can do after everyones help,time,support and advice x x

[Emmzzi]

Hugs hon. Had to happen with him sometime. Don't drop his rent.... He needs to learn! Xx

[Pusillanimous]

My son was registered disabled and in receipt of high rate mobility allowance up until last year! He suffers othopaedically and in a lot of pain daily, but the employer is not aware of this as he was worried he would not get the apprenticeship or he could loose it at any time due to all the pain he is in daily!!! so i don't think we can spring this on them now and not sure if my son wants to be treated differently because of health reasons, he's social skills aren't those of a normal lad of he's age as he was in hospital and off school a hell of a lot due to other health reasons and didn't interact much with others till he's late teens, very hard to understand him when he talks, he mumbles more unless this is a teenage thing,,,,lol

 

I really think it is worth pleading this, with the ex-employers, as it is clear your son was foolish rather than wicked. A warning would be more appropriate for a first offence, where there is no evidence of ill-motive.

[wiggles40]

Thank you Emmzzi, Hugs well appreciated x x

 

Thank you Pusillanimous, i will pass your comments onto my son, i have had to take a step back from supporting him as felt he's laid back attitude is not going to get him anywhere,and just frustrating me to the hilt!!!

my fault as i have always done everything for him but i guess he has to have the hard shock treatment at some point and learn for himself!

 

Could i ask tho, will the appeal give a decision tomorrow when he goes or some point after??

[wiggles40]

Afternoon,

 

Why i still own a few strands of hair that havent been pulled out i was looking for someones opinion , my son ( Who is brown taped to the chair ) is writing he's letter, i have my reservations on it so before it takes him another 5 hours to write the next paragraph , i have copied and pasted what he has done so far, could you let me know if he is on the right path, PLEASE!...... You haven't much longer left of me, appeal tomorrow!! Thank you in advance.

 

 

Thank you for accepting and reading this letter from me.

 

Firstly I am deeply regretful for the bad decision that I made to borrow the diagnostic machine,i fully understand and acknowledge the foolish mistake that I made and I am sincerely sorry and only hope that I can have a second chance to make it right.

 

I felt I had to put my words on paper as i'm not a very outgoing speaker and find it hard to express myself vocally.

 

Since the date of my dismissal, this has given me the time to reflect over my immature actions and why I find myself in the position I am in now,

I want to reassure yourselves again that I never had any intention to steal the machine and was purely borrowing it,which appears that you have accepted this.

I obviously did not think of my actions on a wider perspective when going to borrow the equipment as my first initial thought was to help my dad, who is severely disabled,

I never knew the value of the machine at the time and stated I had borrowed this before, I was not questioned further on this, but this was with the knowledge of the previous acting supervisor.

Usage of this machine outside the company by others in the workshop has been a regular occurance since I started with the company, so I assumed this was ok to do,whether authorised or not.

[markl1987]

Hi Wiggles,

 

Glad to hear he is trying to do something about this himself (even if brown tape was needed) On the decision side that will largely come from what happens during the appeal and if the manager holding it needs to refer for advice or investigate things further to make a decision.

 

On the letter subject I would add that he is a long way through his apprenticeship now and wants to complete it and once qualified carry on in a role where he can use the skills he has learned etc, there was no intention to do any bad by the act he committed but was a silly in the moment thing to help his father. Im not too sure what else would be helpful in this letter so maybe best to let the other reply but I think its a good starting ground, Perhaps add in what Pusillanimous has said too?

 

Hope all goes well and he is grateful for what you have done for him already and best of luck for tomorrow

[Binary1]

Hi Wiggles,

I would also get him to put a lot of 'sucking up' in his letter.

Maybe something along the lines of ' I was so grateful for being given the opportunity of carrying out my apprentiship with such a wonderful company, and since the stupid error on my part regarding anticipating borrowing the equiptment, I feel such remorse.

I can truthfully say If I am given the opportunity of being reinstated, I would never breach the trust of the company again.

 

 

Maybe the company has a heart and will allow this lad to continue to work there. They seem to be rather harsh for something that never really happened as such. Lets keep our fingers ( and toes) crossed.

Good luck for him tomorrow x

[markl1987]

You posted a while back that someone else had borrowed a machine and been caught on CCTV, did anything come of that?

[wiggles40]

Hi Mark1987,

 

Thank you for your advice,... with regards to the cctv and machine, it transpired the machine belonged to him...so no further action taken.......

 

Hi Binary1

 

Thank you for your advice and we have used your paragraph in the letter, hope this is ok....

 

I think he has finished, so while i un tape him from the chair, lol, i will copy the letter below he has wrote, please again, advice on this would be greatly appreciated, should he add anything further, should he take anything out..... Thank you in advance...

 

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

 

 

Thank you for accepting and reading this letter from me.

 

Firstly I deeply regret the bad decision that I made to borrow the diagnostic machine,i fully understand and acknowledge the foolish mistake that I made and I am sincerely sorry and only hope that I can have a second chance to make it right.

 

I felt I had to put my words on paper as i'm not a very outgoing speaker and find it hard to express myself vocally.

 

Since the date of my dismissal, this has given me the time to reflect over my immature actions and why I find myself in the position I am in now, I want to reasure yourselves again that I never had any intention to steal the machine and was purely going to borrow it,which appears that you have accepted this.

I obviously did not think of my actions on a wider aspect when going to borrow the equipment as my first initial thought was to help my dad, who is severely disabled, I also never knew the value of the machine (which you stated was £7000.00) at the time.

 

I have also witnessed over the duration of my apprenticeship, this machine being removed from workshop to be used outside of this company, so I thought this was an acceptable procedure within the workshop.

I now understand and fully accept that no property is to be removed from the workshop and this is certainly a foolish mistake I have learnt from and would NEVER make the same mistake again.

 

In my disciplinary hearing, it was mentioned that another employee (xxxxx) was suspended due to privtae work being carried out,i was already aware of this,and that company equipment had been used without consent for private work and this employee is still working for you. Therefore I hope you can review your decision of the outcome of my disciplinary as I believe I to have learnt a very strong lesson which would never be repeated.

 

Although not company policy, i was advised by my previous line manager to start purchasing my own tools after I completed my first year of apprenticeship, this I did, I now have tools that were put on H.P that I can no longer pay for, so I now have equipment I can no longer pay for and due to the allegations will not be able to persue any future career in mechanics if I cannot return to the company I really wish to be with which is xxxxx.

 

I am so eternally grateful for being given the opportunity of carrying out my apprenticeship with such a wonderful supportive company and since the stupid error on my part regarding anticipating borrowing the equipment ,i feel such remorse. I would so dearly love to finish this apprenticeship with you and to show and prove my worth,i currently have 9 months of apprenticeship left, I really am so sorry if I have brought any embaressment to you as this was not my intention, I was not thinking rationally as was worried about my dad, I have since spoken with my dad who is more than happy to give a statement if you should require, No money what so ever would have been exchanged, he is my dad.

 

I have never denied I had the machine when approached and asked and I have been very honest with all my responses.

 

My verbal actions are of an inexperienced young man,when asked, why didn't you ask for permision and I responded with, I knew the answer would be no,This purely is because I was worried about my dad and that I would not be able to help him, he's life expectancy is in the balance.However,i would never ever repeat this action again and have learnt a very hard lesson.

 

I wanted to also prove my love and loyalty of my job with you, that I had quite nasty accident, caught my finger in the fly wheel which resulted in my finger being severed and me having plastic surgery,after 8 days off work I chose against medical advice to return to work as my commitment and although I didnt resume my normal duties I was happy to do any menial task,which was carried out, please bare this in mind of my commitment and loyalty to your company.

 

If you still feel that there has been an implied breach of trust and confidence although you accepted that I was only going to Borrow the machine then I will endeavour to show you that you can still trust me and have confidence in me.

 

Please believe me that I have never intention to steal this machine, just purely borrow it, and I was never intending to go on public transport to transport this, I had arranged safe travel as stated in my interview, I cannot express my remorse and upset this has caused me and I would love to prove to you that my clean record and commitment will continue and have learnt from senior level the correct protocol of the workshop.

[Binary1]

Hi Wiggles,

The letter looks good to me. Lets hope this company have some compassion and reinstate your son. If they don't they are a heartless bunch for sure.

Let us know what happens tomorrow. We will all be rooting for him. Take care x

[wiggles40]

Thank you Binary1 for your help support and kind wishes, very much noted and appreciated by myself and my son...... x

 

RIGHT..... some of you may agree and some of you i know won't but....... i emailed the HR manager to ask if i could possibly see and speak to the MD before

he see's my son..... THE REPLY WAS...... When an employee is over 18 it is not usual practice to discuss with or involve the individual’s parent or guidance in our internal processes.

However on this occasion we will agree to your request to speak with xxxxx. I will also be in attendance if that’s ok?

 

Pleased with that

[markl1987]

Thank you Binary1 for your help support and kind wishes, very much noted and appreciated by myself and my son...... x

 

RIGHT..... some of you may agree and some of you i know won't but....... i emailed the HR manager to ask if i could possibly see and speak to the MD before

he see's my son..... THE REPLY WAS...... When an employee is over 18 it is not usual practice to discuss with or involve the individual’s parent or guidance in our internal processes.

However on this occasion we will agree to your request to speak with xxxxx. I will also be in attendance if that’s ok?

 

Pleased with that

 

It would seem you have a lot in common with my mum, I don't blame you at all for wanting to go and help out as much as you can and admire you for standing your ground and going with him. Just don't let him sit back and get you to do all the work for him!

 

I'm very keen to hear the outcome tomorrow and rooting for you both all the way

[wiggles40]

It would seem you have a lot in common with my mum, I don't blame you at all for wanting to go and help out as much as you can and admire you for standing your ground and going with him. Just don't let him sit back and get you to do all the work for him!

 

I'm very keen to hear the outcome tomorrow and rooting for you both all the way

 

Thank you Mark1987 for your wishes and this thread will be the first to know of the outcome!!! ..... lol @ something in common with your mum, that has made me feel better knowing i'm not the only worrier!!! lol

 

I'm going in to speak to the MD before my son goes in with he's work representative for the appeal!

 

I'll probably come out buying a new car and join some breakdown scheme for life!

 

Not sure whose more nervous , me or my son!!!

[Pusillanimous]

Wiggle,s after the MD has met his formidable mum, he will KNOW the daft lad will NEVER dare err again!

[wiggles40]

Hi Pusillanimous, lol @ formidable mum, am i that bad!!

 

 

This will be my last post before the appeal tomorrow, please think of me at approx 9am (uk time) with my knees knocking and stuttering !!!....... and then my son at 9.30am!!!

 

I will take everyones kind words of advice and support with us and i will inform you of any decision and how it went at some point in the morning!

 

Thank you again everyone you are all earth angels! x x

[Binary1]

I think its great the MD is going to hear you out before your son goes to his meeting.

It can't do any harm for you to speak with him & lets hope hes a decent human being with compassion

I really hope they give your son his job back. He meant no harm with his actions & they will see he is truly sorry.

Will be waiting for the good news ( Hopefully) tomorrow. I know exactly how you feel toward your son and thousands of other parents would act the same in your shoes. Its good to see parents who will take on the world for their kids, rather than the parents who don't give a damn and their offspring cause havoc . Im dfinately in your camp. Good luck with tomorrow. Bestest wishes x

[wiggles40]

Quick update as at the company premises, had my meeting with MD, was going well till the HR manager spoke and put her foot in it by what she said,

basically they've made there decision before seeing my son whose just gone in there. I quickly challenged what she said and there was 2 red faces!!! ..... Will update further later!!

Edited November 21, 2012 by wiggles40

[wiggles40]

Hi everyone,

Appeal over and done with and we now have a 48hour wait for the decision ( although according to the HR manager who spoke to me, it seems they had already made a decision before seeing my son)....... My son spoke out and conducted the interview well according to he's representative....HOWEVER..... i have a serious concern In he's letter to the MD,he stated "I have also witnessed over the duration of my apprenticeship, this machine being removed from workshop to be used outside of this company, so I thought this was an acceptable procedure within the workshop.

I now understand and fully accept that no property is to be removed from the workshop and this is certainly a foolish mistake I have learnt from and would NEVER make the same mistake again.

 

The MD asked my son, who he had seen taken it, my son did not feel comfortable by giving names, the MD then said to him " IS YOUR LOYALTY WITH THE COMPANY"?? IF SO THEN TELL US THE NAMES!!!!........... My naive idiot of a son thought, if i show my loyalty i will get my job back, and said the names...... i am so ANGRY by them dong this, surely this isn't correct!!!! My son is now in a state of worry and panic that he has now done this...... i'm so angry ive buried my car keys to prevent me going back up there!!!!!!! Can someone please tell me something /anything if this is ok for them to do??????

[Binary1]

Hi everyone,

Appeal over and done with and we now have a 48hour wait for the decision ( although according to the HR manager who spoke to me, it seems they had already made a decision before seeing my son)....... My son spoke out and conducted the interview well according to he's representative....HOWEVER..... i have a serious concern In he's letter to the MD,he stated "I have also witnessed over the duration of my apprenticeship, this machine being removed from workshop to be used outside of this company, so I thought this was an acceptable procedure within the workshop.

I now understand and fully accept that no property is to be removed from the workshop and this is certainly a foolish mistake I have learnt from and would NEVER make the same mistake again.

 

The MD asked my son, who he had seen taken it, my son did not feel comfortable by giving names, the MD then said to him " IS YOUR LOYALTY WITH THE COMPANY"?? IF SO THEN TELL US THE NAMES!!!!........... My naive idiot of a son thought, if i show my loyalty i will get my job back, and said the names...... i am so ANGRY by them dong this, surely this isn't correct!!!! My son is now in a state of worry and panic that he has now done this...... i'm so angry ive buried my car keys to prevent me going back up there!!!!!!! Can someone please tell me something /anything if this is ok for them to do??????[/QUO

 

 

 

The MD has used your sons honesty to do their dirty work for them. In fact when he said to your son about loyalties to the company, your son in reality isnt employed with that company at the moment, so he had no loyalties to that company, as prior to this meeting they sure had no loyalties to him. Looks to me they have now used him to 'snitch' on other members of staff who actually did remove equiptment from the premises. I would assume because your son was put 'on the spot', he couldnt think of anything other than once again telling the truth. I hope this company realise he is an honest lad, & if they don't give him his job back they are not the wonderful caring company he thought they were!! The more I read about this company, the less I feel comfortable about them.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Binary1
Spelling

[Nagasis]

I think it would be best to just wait for the outcome of the appeal. Anything else would cause more damage.

 

I hadn't read your thread since it was (i thought) agreed that his appeal would be based on the amount of punishment received rather than justification of his actions.

 

Im unsure why you are supprised that they wanted names after making allegations against other collegues. It would appear to be common sense to ask for names if allegations are made to attempt justification of your (sons) actions.

 

I think your son has been placed in an arkward situation in that even if his appeal is successful, will he wish to return on the off chance his collegues thinks he is a tell tale soley to justify his own wrongful conduct.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at you or your son, I just think this whole appeal should of been about apologising for his actions not trying to justify them with unsubstantiated allegations against collegues.

[Binary1]

I think it would be best to just wait for the outcome of the appeal. Anything else would cause more damage.

 

I hadn't read your thread since it was (i thought) agreed that his appeal would be based on the amount of punishment received rather than justification of his actions.

 

Im unsure why you are supprised that they wanted names after making allegations against other collegues. It would appear to be common sense to ask for names if allegations are made to attempt justification of your (sons) actions.

 

I think your son has been placed in an arkward situation in that even if his appeal is successful, will he wish to return on the off chance his collegues thinks he is a tell tale soley to justify his own wrongful conduct.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at you or your son, I just think this whole appeal should of been about apologising for his actions not trying to justify them with unsubstantiated allegations against collegues.

 

 

I do somewhat agree with you Nagasis. This could make it very awkward for the son to work with members of staff after having to 'spill the beans' on those who 'borrowed' the equiptment previously, but not with the MD asking who the sons loyalties lie with. That was a little bit crass of him when he was/is prepared to end this lads apprentiship for a stupid mistake. This has turned into a bit of a mess. Like you say, wait to see what the outcome is first, & hopefully it can be turned around.

[Nagasis]

but not with the MD asking who the sons loyalties lie with. That was a little bit crass of him when he was/is prepared to end this lads apprentiship for a stupid mistake. This has turned into a bit of a mess.

 

Although I do think the MD used the allegation/information provided to their advantage and used the sons predicament in being offerred a carrot in exchange for information I really can see no other choice the MD had in asking for names. This is because:

 

1) The problem with submitting evidence in the appeal was that it would have been required to substantiate it - ie naming names. The son couldn't just say 'trust me on this'. That doesn't fly.

2) If mangement have been provided evidence/allegations that employees are breaking policy and removing items without authority then they are duty bound to ask for names from the person providing the information.

 

A bit irrelevant now in any case and yes its a bit of a mess.

 

With a bit of luck the MD has not divulged the information provided to him and the OPs son wins his appeal.

[Binary1]

Agreed. Both the son and the MD have been put in awkward situations.

I don't think this was an official appeal as such, I think the mum and son were clutching at straws by getting in touch with the company and asking to be allowed to ' explain his situation' and hopefully be able to reserect the sons employment. Never the less, it is a sticky situation and hopefully some good will come out of this all in the end.