Need urgent appeal advice - ** WON **

[wiggles40]

Ok, Well i know the appeal letter has arrived on the MD's desk!!! ........... so is there a time limit here to receive an appeal appointment for my son??? or is it when it suits them? just another thought that i have had!

[wiggles40]

Ok...we have just received an interesting phone call, apparently( allegedly) someone else within the work company my son worked at has just taken the exact same machine from the workshop into the company car park to do a PRIVATE job on a friends car!!!! This person has been caught on ca,era doing this and will be dealt with tomorrow, so this shall be interesting on what outcome will be for him!!!!

[wiggles40]

We've received the letter this morning informing my son he's appeal is next wednesday (22nd Nov) at 9.30am........

 

Can anyone give us some pointers to take with us please???

[Emmzzi]

Who is going with him?

 

He sounds like he needs a good dose of rehearsing. You play the manager, he practises being contrite. Every time he tries to make an excuse or explain it away or says "but other people do it!" then stop him and make him try again.

[markl1987]

Is your son going alone to this meeting?

[wiggles40]

Hi Emmzzi......

 

Hmmm me and my son doing role play! We'd be in an argument before he said 3 words!!!....... All this has had such an effect on our relationship, From sunday the adrenalin of trying to sort out the appeal has gone down the reality of my sons future and stupidity has hit me and been so emotional over it ...... All that would make me happy is for him to go back to work there and finish what he started the correct way!!!!...............

 

Hi Mark.......

 

I'm driving him there as the appeal is a quite a way away from us and he has asked for a colleague to attend, but the colleague spoke to me on the phone and told me the line manager told him to not stick he's neck out for my son at the appeal!!!

 

My son is just not a talker, very quite, shy and not very good at expressing himself, i feel a disaster before we even start, guess its about praying and hoping!!!!

[Emmzzi]

Well, given how he was at the first hearing, he needs rehearsal to be better, one way or the other! Does he fight less with anyone else in the family that could help?

 

I am sad for you that you are doing at this and he does not seem to appreciate you. daft lad.

 

Do you know any union reps at all - does not need to be a union your son is a member of. Will a mate of a mate do a favour? They can go with.

 

Colleague sounds intimidated and like he will be useless.

[wiggles40]

Honestly, i feel like its my fault, maybe my over protectiveness and lack of socialising as a child, as he had a serious health condition when young, but as a teenager and living in not the greatest part of london, i didnt allow him out as didnt want him to go down the wrong route in life , has not helped him.......

 

No don't no any union rep who could attend, he's dad has not picked the phone up to him since, and really there is only me him and younger sister in our family.....

 

I will try draft up some notes and pointers for him to take in with him , like ive told him, ive done the easy part, the hard part is now convincing them why you should be re-instated!! ...............

[Emmzzi]

No no no.. he'll just sit there and say nothing again!

 

Whether he wants to or not he needs practice and given dad started all this off dad should blummin well do it with him!!!

[wiggles40]

I will give it a go at the weekend, he started he's new stand in job, as he calls it, today!

[candy42]

We've received the letter this morning informing my son he's appeal is next wednesday (22nd Nov) at 9.30am........

 

Can anyone give us some pointers to take with us please???

 

Hi, not sure if you have noticed but the 22nd is on a Thursday not Wednesday.

 

Good luck with your son

[wiggles40]

Hi, not sure if you have noticed but the 22nd is on a Thursday not Wednesday.

 

Good luck with your son

 

 

Thank you Candy42 for spotting this, will get my son to confirm they mean either the wed or thurs! Thank you for your Good luck wishes to!

[wiggles40]

From everyones experience being active on this forum, have you known anyone that has gone to an appeal at work after Disciplinary to be re-instated in there job????

[Emmzzi]

"everyone" is not your son. You are now into the overdrive fretting mother part.

 

Stop it, and go watch a film. You will be insane by next week at this rate.

[wiggles40]

Ok

[honeybee13]

Excellent advice, Emmzzi

 

HB x

[wiggles40]

Morning,

 

It's the over fretting mother here.... thats watch all the films and still fretting... ....... lol !

 

My son is starting to feel the panic setting in now, he's concerned as he just isnt a speaker, very quite and shy and this is not going to change in less than a week, he asked me if it would be ok

to write a letter in support of he's appeal that he can produce either before,by sending, or on the day, yes i agree you can put down more in writing but i explained i could't answer this but i know a forum that can,

would you say this was ok for him to do or a No No????

[becky2585]

I've seen written statements submitted on appeal before, so yes.

 

I would strongly suggest he writes it though.

[wiggles40]

I've seen written statements submitted on appeal before, so yes.

 

I would strongly suggest he writes it though.

 

 

Thank you becky2585.... Oh most deffo he is going to do it, should he take with him on day of appeal or should he post before???

 

Also would a short statement/letter from me help at all, i just want to make sure all options are covered that may help, i know being he's mum i'm bias, but i do agree on some form of discipline, just wanted to help, if it would ??

[Pusillanimous]

Wiggles did you once say your son had special needs or past difficulties? If so, given he was of apprentice status and 8 months from completing, you could write a statement and also ask to attend the appeal with him on the basis of his being a vulnerable young person.

 

I would send the statement in advance as courtesy and avoid denial of the reality of the facts, defensiveness, defiance or arrogance. What you are looking for is for your boy to complete his training and to have learnt his important lesson. In his favour you should point out that he did not try to deny it and has been transparentand is full of remorse. (This latter has to come from him, with sincerity.) Short of begging on your knees, ask that they be compassionate and merciful.

[becky2585]

If I'm being brutally honest, unless the employee was disabled, I'd find it very strange for a parent to submit a statement!

 

The timing doesn't matter too much. If he wants to talk about the statement at the hearing and make representations on it, he should send it in good time prior to the hearing. If he just wants them to read it and consider it as part of the decision, he can do so at the hearing and adjourn the hearing to allow the appeals manager to review it (or he could read it out, which is also fairly common).

 

If the appeal doesnt go his way, it's very important to find out whether he's working under a traditional apprenticeship arrangement or under the new ASCAL2009 provisions (the contract should state this). If it's a traditional apprenticeship, he can sue them for lost earnings for the duration of the contract. But if it's under an ASCAL Act 2009 agreement, there's no claim.

[wiggles40]

If I'm being brutally honest, unless the employee was disabled, I'd find it very strange for a parent to submit a statement!

 

The timing doesn't matter too much. If he wants to talk about the statement at the hearing and make representations on it, he should send it in good time prior to the hearing. If he just wants them to read it and consider it as part of the decision, he can do so at the hearing and adjourn the hearing to allow the appeals manager to review it (or he could read it out, which is also fairly common).

 

If the appeal doesnt go his way, it's very important to find out whether he's working under a traditional apprenticeship arrangement or under the new ASCAL2009 provisions (the contract should state this). If it's a traditional apprenticeship, he can sue them for lost earnings for the duration of the contract. But if it's under an ASCAL Act 2009 agreement, there's no claim.

 

Hi Becky,,,,,

 

I think he wants it to be taken into consideration as part of decision, because he is worrying that he isn't the greatest of speakers and he fears the whole situation is going to freeze him again, as i keep telling him, its what he says that will count......

 

I have the "Conditions of Agreement of Apprenticeship" in front of me and i cannot see what he working uder, where would i find this???

 

The first paragraph says........ This document constitutes part of your contract of employment and incorporates a statement of the applicable terms and conditions in accordance with the employment rights act 1996 ,,,, Does this help you in anyway??

[wiggles40]

Wiggles did you once say your son had special needs or past difficulties? If so, given he was of apprentice status and 8 months from completing, you could write a statement and also ask to attend the appeal with him on the basis of his being a vulnerable young person.

 

I would send the statement in advance as courtesy and avoid denial of the reality of the facts, defensiveness, defiance or arrogance. What you are looking for is for your boy to complete his training and to have learnt his important lesson. In his favour you should point out that he did not try to deny it and has been transparentand is full of remorse. (This latter has to come from him, with sincerity.) Short of begging on your knees, ask that they be compassionate and merciful.

 

 

Hi Pusillanimous,

 

My son was registered disabled and in receipt of high rate mobility allowance up until last year! He suffers othopaedically and in a lot of pain daily, but the employer is not aware of this as he was worried he would not get the apprenticeship or he could loose it at any time due to all the pain he is in daily!!! so i don't think we can spring this on them now and not sure if my son wants to be treated differently because of health reasons, he's social skills aren't those of a normal lad of he's age as he was in hospital and off school a hell of a lot due to other health reasons and didn't interact much with others till he's late teens, very hard to understand him when he talks, he mumbles more unless this is a teenage thing,,,,lol

[becky2585]

Sort of, but it's common as an apprentice to work both under a contract of employment (which you have) and also a written tripartite apprenticeship agreement between your son, the employer and the learning provider.

 

Without a written contract governing the apprenticeship arrangement, it's unlikely to be formal enough to constitute a genuine formal apprenticeship.

[wiggles40]

Sort of, but it's common as an apprentice to work both under a contract of employment (which you have) and also a written tripartite apprenticeship agreement between your son, the employer and the learning provider.

 

Without a written contract governing the apprenticeship arrangement, it's unlikely to be formal enough to constitute a genuine formal apprenticeship.

 

 

Its a very amateur looking contract to what i have had and given in the past!!........

 

My son has stated he doesn't want to gain or receive any money all he wants is he's job back, if this ends up going ET , which i think will be the case, again he hopes to get he's job back or a lesser sentance even if still dismissed that will enable him to get another job with in a different group ( Franchise) of the same brand name... if you no what i mean....