Dispatches: Britain on The Sick

[osdset]

This will also cost the NHS money and I'm sure many will turn to crime.

That fits in rather well with the ATOS thing last night where the HCP said 'if they can use one finger they can work' One fingered pickpockets! The only problem is they will have to concentrate on Polo mints.

[count orlok]

After watching these programmes I am so thankful that my migration from IB was completed without the need for a WCA. It has also made me determined never to suffer the humiliation and pain of a WCA. I am fortunate in having an underlying entitlement to carers allowance for my wife who is over pensionable age. So if I am not put into the support group again when i send back my next ESA50 form, I'll just go onto carers allowance with any shortfall made up by pension credits.

 

As i have said before I really feel for the young and am so worried for my children and grandchildren.

[hensteeth]

Didn't know that, Antone. I knew that inpatients were exempt from the assessment though.

 

I have to admit that I Understand Grayling saying that we shouldn't just leave people on sickness benefits for years. But at the same time, they're going the wrong way about it. Sending people for assessments with long-term incurable conditions is pointless.

 

Talking from personal experience, there seems to be next to no help helping disabled people back into work. I think this is what's needed. I know many disabled people who want to work and don't want to claim benefits; but there's no help at all for them out there. The work programme has been no help at all. Especially as in my case, they decided they know my disabilities better than I and my consultants do.

 

 

Neither did I!!!!

 

Had my ESA assessment, just before I went into hospital - was given 0 points. The fact that I was in hospital never featured in the claim!

 

As for DLA (yes I know it's off subject) but I think relevant. I failed to complete the renewal forms as I was in hospital on that occasion for over 3 months - half in intensive care, and it took another two years after discharge for me to start eating again and feeling any part 'normal.'

 

The DLA claim was closed down obviously but more importantly, the reasons I gave for it not being completed in time were not accepted - I had not shown good cause for the entire 27 months.

They would not back date the claim.

 

Likewise with the IIDB claim - this too expired at the same time as the DLA claim. It took until 2011 for me to convince the DWP that I had been entitled to IIDB from 2004. They accepted this and sent me a letter in November last year telling me that they had awarded IIDB at the 40% rate from Jan 2004 - Jan 2014 - but with no back pay obviously!!!

[Nystagmite]

That fits in rather well with the ATOS thing last night where the HCP said 'if they can use one finger they can work' .

 

They'll probably get the sack pretty quick for not being able to type fast enough.

[bonnygirl]

Unlike this public section fatcat, wish we all could be treated like him.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382411/Council-chief-retired-ill-health-earning-1m-consultant.html

[Nystagmite]

Disgusting

[estellyn]

You need to really stare down the hole and start realising that it takes two to tango. It's a contract that both parties negotiate and have to fully agree on. So.... who is the monkey and who is the organ grinder? Well the organ grinder is neither as it is UNUM backed by the insurance companies. The monkeys get; jobs and jollies galore for MPs and ATOS is on a promise of a very lucrative new market to break into.

 

Get your tinfoil hats on and read this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4095693

 

The problem with all these new initiatives (the prime example is Work Program) is the black box approach i.e. we don't care what goes in, what happens in the box, only what comes out. As there's no regulation of what goes on in the box, contracts are awarded on cost and you can bet your bottom dollar, that it will be the lowest form of help if any. What goes on is (as we see with the WCA and WP) then shrouded in the complete carp that is contractual confidentiality and the removal of the right for private individuals/organisations to scrutinise it with for example FOI requests.

 

Last night was a start but we can't take break. We need to keep up the pressure and keep this issue in the spot light. If we don't then some firemen will be on the news saving a cat up a tree and the fickle public will not care when the anti disabled propaganda machine kicks back in.

 

The government (each party is pretty much the same now) are to blame for making descriptors designed to take people off of benefits.

 

Atos are to blame because they take those descriptors and then designed an assessment intended to get as little information relevant to the descriptors as possible - using the theory that if if they don't hear the right information in the assessment, then they are not required to pass them. They try to avoid recording assessments as much as possible, because on the recorded assessments they have to ask the questions differently and allow the claimant to speak. The worst offenders doing the assessment will ignore anything additional said by the claimant and just use the statements from the drop down menus in the computer program, rather than write additional info in provided boxes for additional information. a 20 minute assessment is not long enough to be able to do anything but use the drop down menus. my two assessments were well over an hour - I made it clear from the outset that my previous job was a benefit rep dealing with appeals, which had the assessors frantically writing every word I said in additional info boxes - I had to keep pausing while they caught up typing the infomation in.

 

The DWP are to blame because they are responsible for the final decisions. Decision makers should be looking at the IB85 and using their common sense - if its just drop down menu statements then it was a bad assessment. They should be giving weight to information from GP's, consultants etc, rather than blindly rubber stamping the ATOS assessments.

 

The government are to blame for not taking notice of rate of successful represented appeals - or if I was cynical, I would say they did take notice, and this is part of the reason why they have pushed the legal aid bill - no legal aid representation for benefit matters means far fewer reps being employed and available to help wth appeals, therefore fewer successful appeals.

 

the government are also to blame for encouraging this prejudice against the sick and disabled and for obfuscating statistics to make it look like many esa claimants are faking.

[frank_begbie]

That fits in rather well with the ATOS thing last night where the HCP said 'if they can use one finger they can work' One fingered pickpockets! The only problem is they will have to concentrate on Polo mints.

 

Surely they would be able to apply for a grant for one of those grabbers the council litter pickers are so fond of using?

 

Just think of the options that would open up for them then.

 

The dole queue's would be slashed at a stroke.

[frank_begbie]

After seeing the inter-departmental correspondence Timms told the Guardian that the emails appeared to show Grayling's answer was wrong, adding that the government was "ignoring the needs of disabled people".

"Many people are finding they have to appeal against wrong decisions on their disability benefits. With cuts to legal aid, it will be harder in future for them to get help. Now DWP ministers are stopping people even from seeing a video that might help them, produced by the Ministry of Justice. They also appear to have given an incorrect answer to my parliamentary question. This looks like a department that is losing its grip and ignoring the needs of disabled people."

 

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jul/31/minister-accused-video-disability-claimants

[debt4get]

The programs have made me realise how hopeless I feel for myself and all the others who are affected.

 

 

They haven't just moved the goalposts, they have buried the goalposts.

 

 

.

then we have to keep digging until they appear again...working people unfortunately have no idea of what is actually going on except the papers, press, etc constantly reminding them of the 'scroungers' it isn't till it affects them, when they have an illness or accident, they suddenly realise that the system ain't working

[worried33]

harrington going has done the gov no favours, my dad rang me today and told me he found it very suspicous he was sacked after the panaroma comments (my dad sees it as sacking without me putting those words in his mouth).

[bigissue]

Just wanted to post this very interesting article on the ideology behind the recent welfare reforms and how this government see disability very much worth reading! http://www.dpac.uk.net/2012/04/a-tale-of-two-models-disabled-people-vs-unum-atos-government-and-disability-charities-debbie-jolly/

[45002]

 

And did anyone else think Chris Grayling looked decidedly shifty when he said he categorically denied there had been any targets set by either DWP or ATOS. .

 

Yes CG didn't like the fact that 40 % of people are winning there appeals and even had the cheek to criticise the judges decisions...

 

Chris Grayling, on the successful appeal stats: "I think you have to look at why the appeals are successful. I wish the Judges sometimes looked beyond the first impression and thought is it really the case that these people could not return to any form of work". .

 

I felt like throwing the telly at CG when he said that,he just doesn't get it,does he !

 

far too frequent reassessments etc. .

 

CG did say this had been looked into and reassessments should be cut down !

 

Think the programme which showed the GP who filmed his ATOS assessor training gave quite an insight into this.

 

That polish doctor kept saying system was "Toxic" why she still training for them or has she had the push by now ?

 

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Please take some Valium before reading,OK

 

It seem the top two runner for the contract and running of PIP is between

 

is

 

G4S and ATOS

 

Does G4S ring any Alarm bells with you !

 

http://www.disabilitywales.org/1168/3843

 

 

I can see Dispatches and Panorama doing a series of programmes in the future if G4S win the contracts

 

Now have a read of this

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1280554/The-coalition-millionaires-23-29-member-new-cabinet-worth-1m--Lib-Dems-just-wealthy-Tories.html

 

Makes you sick,when there are cutting benefits for serious ill and disabled people who do need help...

 

They will never have any money worries....................

Edited August 2, 2012 by 45002

[Dilizjo]

 

 

 

 

Please take some Valium before reading,OK

 

It seem the top two runner for the contract and running of PIP is between

 

is

 

G4S and ATOS

 

Does G4S ring any Alarm bells with you !

 

http://www.disabilitywales.org/1168/3843

 

 

......

 

 

I read the shortlists and to say the very least it is horrifying.... the shortlist for my area:-

 

Lot 1 – Scotland, NE England, NW England & Isle of Man

 

 

• Avanta Enterprises Ltd ..... An employment recruitment agency
  
• Ingeus Deloitte Limited...... Well you only have to read the post dedicated to them on this forum
  
• APM UK Ltd........ An Austrailian/New Zeraland run firm, the only one that shows any information that they are already in this field....
  
• Capita Group PLC... Buisness process outsourcers?
  
• Reed in Partnership.... yet another recruitment agency
  
• G4S Integrated Services (UK) Ltd... well we all know how responsible these lot are.....
  
• Atos Origin...... This lot are our waking nightmare
  
• Vertex Ltd.....I Googled these and the only services that they appear to provide are building ones so maybe all disabled people should be looking to become brickies or such like.... I would be very interested if anyone else can find out anything else....
  

[Nystagmite]

I was once told that ATOS did IB assessments too. Why didn't we have this level of problems with appeals and assessments then? Ok, some would have needed to appeal and we will never have a perfect system.

[rainbo]

I was once told that ATOS did IB assessments too. Why didn't we have this level of problems with appeals and assessments then? Ok, some would have needed to appeal and we will never have a perfect system.

 

They did do the IB assessments - problem NOW is that ESA and the assessments are specifically designed to get people OFF the "sick" benefits. As the training lady on Dispatches kept saying.

[worried33]

This shouldnt be privatised full stop.

 

Also capita bidding is a conflict of interest as they run the welfare advice hotline thats given out on benefit cease letters.

 

I wonder how much money has really been saved if any when you addup what these companies get paid and the cost of tribunals.

[rainbo]

Chris Grayling, on the successful appeal stats: "I think you have to look at why the appeals are successful. I wish the Judges sometimes looked beyond the first impression and thought is it really the case that these people could not return to any form of work".

 

Considering my ex-husband didn't even have to attend his appeal TO WIN IT (the judge reviewed his case and overturned it before the court(?) even 'opened for business' that day!) I doubt there's much - if any - "first impressions" going on.

[highly_delighted]

But it was staggering to hear that the cost of all the appeals every year cost £50m

[rainbo]

But it was staggering to hear that the cost of all the appeals every year cost £50m

 

I agree. Tax-payers' money....

[RaeUK]

Just caught up with the Dispatches programme on C4od. Whilst the BBC one was good, Dispatches was even more so. Very shocking. With ESA and PIP, it looks like I picked a really bad time to get ill...

[down'n'out]

It seem the top two runner for the contract and running of PIP is between

 

is

 

G4S and ATOS

 

Looks like contracts have been given:-

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/02/atos-disability-benefit-tests?INTCMP=SRCH

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/government-computing-network/2012/aug/03/pip-atos-capita-dwp-disability?INTCMP=SRCH

 

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has awarded contracts to Atos and Capita to provide Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessments to replace the Disability Living Allowance (DLA).

Atos has been awarded two of the three lots, for Scotland, north east and north west England, as well as London and southern England, with Capita gaining the other contract covering Wales and central England.

A further lot has still to be confirmed through the Northern Ireland Social Security Agency. The total value of the Atos and Capita contracts is estimated to be £540m over five years, with Atos' share about £400m and Capita's £140m. The overall cost of the scheme is some £700m, which is likely to include the cost of any refinement to IT systems to deliver and process the assessments and signpost other relevant benefits for claimants.

[hensteeth]

Just caught up with the Dispatches programme on C4od. Whilst the BBC one was good, Dispatches was even more so. Very shocking. With ESA and PIP, it looks like I picked a really bad time to get ill...

 

You certainly have!!

 

ATOS & Capita are now to run PIP.

 

God help those that are having to claim these benefits - me, I'll be off to the food bank on Monday and join the queue then pop in to one or two charity shops for a pair of shoes.

[frank_begbie]

If people still believe there will be such a thing as the welfare state in a few years time must be living in a dream world.

 

Governments around the world are taking full advantage of the 'credit crunch' and slashing the welfare bill into oblivion.

 

I predict there will be no such thing as a disabled person in this country in ten years time, possibly less.

Edited August 4, 2012 by frank_begbie

[osdset]

I predict there will be no such thing as a disabled person in this country in ten years time, possibly less.

 

Re-classified as 'defective' or 'not fit for purpose' ? Perhaps the next initiative will be to terminate a foetus that does not come up to specification unless the parents can guarantee independent financial support and ensure that the abomination is kept locked away so as not to offend the rest of the 'master race'.

 

We can then focus attention on pensioners, after all they have served any useful purpose and are now surplus to requirement, and a financial burden, just queue in an orderly fashion at the local euthanasia centre when you get the official notification.

 

Rest assured it won't happen in the UK, after all, we are a caring compassionate people that look after the vulnerable in our society......Aren't we?