Snooping by local government

[sallypotter]

Can someone tell me whether a claimant of housing benefit and/or council tax benefit has to declare when asked by the local council paying this what they have spent their money on?

 

My cousin claims these benefits and was recently asked to produce bank statements which she did.

 

Now her local council have asked her about various outgoings and incomings.

 

She told them what she spent her money on was none of their business.

 

She can understand them asking about the incomings which were only transfers from one bank account to another but the outcomings is a different matter.

 

Or is it?

 

Thank you in anticipation.

[rainbo]

I can't imagine that it's any of their business Unless she had savings that she's now spent - in this instance the council might want to know as buying things specifically to get under the savings threshold is a definite no-no. But if your cousin is on benefits/wage, with little/no savings, all they should be interested in is the incomings.

 

Hopefully you'll get an answer from a legal standpoint shortly.

[sallypotter]

Thanks rainbo,

 

She's spent money but not to get under any figure of savings threshold.

 

She was already under that figure which they knew.

 

She won't be on any benefits soon anyway but she's not happy with the snooping.

 

After all it's her money.

 

She rang up the woman that wrote the letter and was told they were checking up whether she had any undeclared income.

 

She hasn't.

 

She told them it was none of their business as this was out goings not incomings!

 

I gave her advice which i thought was logical but you never know what the legalities are.

 

Thanks

[Darfyddi]

They may be wondering if some of the expenditure is going into a savings account. When they asked my wife for her statements for the last 3 years they listed the accounts they wanted but this was only about half the accounts she had so I just gave them all the accounts for the same period. If your friend is in the same situation then they might be trying to see if there are other accounts that HMRC failed to tell DWP/LG about.

[sallypotter]

Thanks for your reply Darfyddi,

 

 

She has declared all her accounts to them.

 

She receives esa income related and declared her inheritance she received when her father died which was about £13,000 approx.

 

Her esa got reduced as she had over £6,000.

 

Do they have a right to request for this new information?

 

Surely, what she spends her money on is totally up to her, it was her father's money.

 

She's not tried to claim more money by getting rid of it.

 

She won't be claiming much longer for anything as she has had enough of them wanting to know all her business.

 

She has inherited a part share in her father's house and was going to buy a small flat with her share but now is not going to bother and live off the money as she is sick to the back teeth of all the snooping at this difficult time.

 

Thanks.

 

Any more advice would be gladly received from you or anyone else in the know.

[Slatted]

Thanks for your reply Darfyddi,

 

 

Surely, what she spends her money on is totally up to her, it was her father's money.

 

She's not tried to claim more money by getting rid of it.

 

She won't be claiming much longer for anything as she has had enough of them wanting to know all her business.

 

She has inherited a part share in her father's house and was going to buy a small flat with her share but now is not going to bother and live off the money as she is sick to the back teeth of all the snooping at this difficult time.

 

Thanks.

 

Any more advice would be gladly received from you or anyone else in the know.

 

She is fortunate to have any choice in the matter....the rest of us still have to conform just in the hope that we will get the rules right and make sure we are paid benefits that are just enough for us to survive.....

 

Also probably because, if she does spend the money, they believe that there will come a point when she is under the £6000 so they are monitoring things? Maybe the fact that they know of the part-share issue they are being extra cautious about her money because, of course, using any money from that sale would be of interest to them too..

 

Big Brother may not just be a TV show.......

[sallypotter]

Hi Slatted,

 

Yes she is fortunate. But if i filled you in more you wouldn't think so, she's had an awful life believe me.

 

Surely though the monitoring should be done if she ever applies for esa or whatever it is called then if she ever does.

 

She had a letter probably back in March asking for her to notify them when she received the money from the house sale.

 

She told them ok, but they've decided to write asking for her bank statements which she provided and now when she's done this, wanting to know what she spent her money on?

 

Her money!!!

 

Is this legal?

[Slatted]

I did not mean fortunate in all things....sorry if that was how it was implied....

 

Housing Benefit claiming is enough for them I am afraid...and they have the right to get information to determine whether remain eligible and maybe the do not believe everyone willl notify them when house sales go through...and whether that is all that has been inherited etc...and they have the right to establish spending issues as that is also part of the Law that covers such payments...I am sure someone on the Forum can find a link to the legislation to explain what they look for and why...and hopefully how they can justify asking for it without apparent cause.....

[sallypotter]

Slatted,

 

no worries.

 

Thanks again, i just don't understand why they've asked her for information on what she's SPENT her money on, as she wouldn't get any more benefit?

 

She is eligible for hb/ctb as she receives reduced rate esa as her savings have always been between £6000-£15999 which means she is automatically eligible if i'm not mistaken.

 

When she gets the money from the house sale, they've told her she has 26 weeks to find somewhere to buy and she would still be eligible for housing/council tax benefit as the money won't be seen as capital for this period. Even told her that she can still claim Council Tax benefit then, lol. She hadn't even thought of that!!!!!

 

She doesn't intend to now as can't stand any more of their interference.

 

This is very suspicious behaviour by them, they obviously think she is up to some sort of fraud as it's not your general bod writing but a BENEFIT INVESTIGATION OFFICER Tech IRRV.........

[Slatted]

:|I think they may just be checking that she is not trying to deplete her savings......obviously too much time on their hands.......

[Guest amianne]

Thanks for your reply Darfyddi,

 

 

She has declared all her accounts to them.

 

She receives esa income related and declared her inheritance she received when her father died which was about £13,000 approx.

 

Her esa got reduced as she had over £6,000.

 

Do they have a right to request for this new information?

 

Surely, what she spends her money on is totally up to her, it was her father's money.

 

She's not tried to claim more money by getting rid of it.

 

She won't be claiming much longer for anything as she has had enough of them wanting to know all her business.

 

She has inherited a part share in her father's house and was going to buy a small flat with her share but now is not going to bother and live off the money as she is sick to the back teeth of all the snooping at this difficult time.

 

Thanks.

 

Any more advice would be gladly received from you or anyone else in the know.

 

If anybody wishes to avail themselves of money being handed out by the government, then they should be prepared to answer any questions and provide any evidence & explanations.

 

Surely, what she spends her money on is totally up to her, it was her father's money. It may have been her father's money, but if she has control and ownership of it now, then quite rightly it should be taken into account as available resources out of which she can support herself. Besides which, spending any of it in a way that is considered unwise by the authorities will result in it being treated as she still has it even though she hasn't. LA/DWP/HMRC all have an input on what they think is reasonable on how it should be spent and at what rate.

[sallypotter]

Amianne,

 

She isn't trying to get any more money from them.

 

If you receive esa you get automatic housing and council tax benefit.

 

She didn't make the rules, it's their rules.

 

She fits the criteria and that should be that.

 

What she spends her money on is up to her.

 

Slatted, they definetely have too much time on their hands.

 

They are out to get her, she doesn't even have to give them her reference number!!!!

[sallypotter]

Amianne,

 

she is 56 years old and quite capable of spending HER money.

 

She doesn't care if they consider she is depriving herself of capital, she's NOT asking for any more money, what don't you get about that?

[Guest amianne]

Amianne,

 

she is 56 years old and quite capable of spending HER money.

 

She doesn't care if they consider she is depriving herself of capital, she's NOT asking for any more money, what don't you get about that?

 

Sorry I seem to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

 

So what you are saying that as the ESA (Income Based) has already been reduced because of savings, she still gets some and consequently she should have full HB/CTB.

 

If I follow that through you are saying that even if she just had £1 of ESA (Income Based) it automatically should follow that she should be entitled to full HB/CTB?

 

So you are questioning why the LA are interested at all as it had all been dealt with through ESA.

 

Logically, if that is the case, no the LA have no right to look at anything providing she is getting some means tested benefit that passports to full HB/CTB.

 

 

On the other hand if she lost her ESA by having £1 too much income/capital, she wouldn't get any HB/CTB for the same reason? As they apply the same tests.

 

ummm. That seems a bit harsh.

 

I wonder if even though she does receive some passporting benefit, the LA would want to assess her HB/CTB claim using the same evidence. I.e. make it on a sliding scale basis.

 

I don't know. To me it doesn't seem right that just because she gets some ESA she gets full HB/CTB yet an identical person that has just lost out on ESA by £1 would get no help with HB or CTB.

 

This is very much like Pension Credit. Get £1 a week Guaranteed Pension Credit and you would get upwards of say £140 a week in HB/CTB. Yet just miss out on GPC by £1, they would lose the £140 a week - all because both parties use very similar way of calculating benefit.

 

If that is the case, it would suggest to me that somehow you have to engineer your affairs that you get at least £1 from a means tested benefit to save say £140!!!

[Nystagmite]

I can't imagine that it's any of their business Unless she had savings that she's now spent - in this instance the council might want to know as buying things specifically to get under the savings threshold is a definite no-no. But if your cousin is on benefits/wage, with little/no savings, all they should be interested in is the incomings.

 

Hopefully you'll get an answer from a legal standpoint shortly.

 

This was my understanding. If you spend say, £500 on something and then say "I've now got £xxxx.xx in savings", then yeah, I think they're within their rights to ask for details. If you're perceived (because of savings) to have "income" of a few pounds a week, and then spend that few pounds a week, I don't think they can really ask.

 

They use a formula which states roughly what amount of savings you may have after a set period.

[Darfyddi]

This was my understanding. If you spend say, £500 on something and then say "I've now got £xxxx.xx in savings", then yeah, I think they're within their rights to ask for details. If you're perceived (because of savings) to have "income" of a few pounds a week, and then spend that few pounds a week, I don't think they can really ask.

 

They use a formula which states roughly what amount of savings you may have after a set period.

 

This might be what is happening - if, sallypotter, your cousin provided the statements and on them there are some payments that are a lot more than her income then they may be wondering where it went to. E.g. at the start of the year I will always lose nearly £1,000 for car insurance and I know that on benefits, a £1,000 purchase would raise eyebrows; on car insurance it is ok, on shoes it would be frowned upon.

[sallypotter]

Thanks everyone,

 

 

There are no payments out that are a lot more than her income.

 

She hasn't got an increased income she is just spending her inheritence which they know about.

 

She has no undisclosed income which the woman at the council mentioned to her. They can look as much as they like it just does not exist.

 

 

She has no more money than she started with at the start of her claim.

 

SHE IS NOT SAYING I'VE GOT LESS MONEY GIVE ME MORE.

 

Had a phone call from her last night.

 

She has been asked for what she has spent money on before she EVEN CLAIMED HOUSING/COUNCIL TAX BENEFIT.

 

NOW SOMEONE TELL ME THAT IS CORRECT?

[flumps1976]

Yes it is correct the local authority can ask to see proof of all accounts for a period of 6 months prior to the claim, this isto check that the capital levels haven't dimished suddenly in order to be able to make a claim for HB/CT.

Nobody is saying that she did this btw, only that the LA have a duty to ensure that the correct benefit is paid to the correct person.

[debt4get]

unfortunately this is happening...if you are entitled to hb/ct they will and can check your bank accounts....it is dependent on whether you have or have not money in bank..they went through mine for 3 months back with a bloody fine toothcomb...where did this come from? what is this? where did you spend that? unbelievable..but that is the system we have

[sallypotter]

Thanks again everyone,

 

This is really getting to her.

 

Just had her on the phone again saying she is suicidal, she can't take any more of their persecuting her.

 

Said she has no joy in her life, all she has is this crap over her head.

 

Before anyone suggests she has been to the doctor.

 

I think this is it really, she's had crap all her life, she's now 56, so think they may finally do her in, she's been so strong for too long.

 

Hope the psychopaths will be happy.

 

Oh forgot, they don't have empathy so won't they won't bat an eye lid.

 

And ultimately it is her decision.

[debt4get]

unfortunately this is the system this caring govt has given us....and i do feel for you and her...if she is genuinely suicidal you seriously need to get her some help....this persecution by the authorities is only going to get worse not better...there are some real horror stories on here..remember 32 people a week are seeking this way out....they are out to grind you down and succeeding....there are lots of us in the same boat....wishing you all the best..

[sallypotter]

I will pass on your support.

 

That was very kind of you.

 

Does anyone think it is worth complaining to the woman from the council's boss about her letters to my cousin?

[daggersedge]

Amianne,

 

she is 56 years old and quite capable of spending HER money.

 

She doesn't care if they consider she is depriving herself of capital, she's NOT asking for any more money, what don't you get about that?

 

It's not all her money, though, is it? She is getting money from the taxpayer so it is reasonable, therefore, for her to have to be accountable for what she is doing with that money and whether she is eligible to even be receiving it. Her age has nothing to do with it. That she is not asking for more money has nothing to do with it. She has taken money from the taxpayer and therefore she has to comply with the rules.

[sadone]

It's not all her money, though, is it? She is getting money from the taxpayer so it is reasonable, therefore, for her to have to be accountable for what she is doing with that money and whether she is eligible to even be receiving it. Her age has nothing to do with it. That she is not asking for more money has nothing to do with it. She has taken money from the taxpayer and therefore she has to comply with the rules.

 

Excuse me, but don't you live in France? So what is it to you what this women is or is not doing? This ladies mother is obviously high worked up over this, and these type of comments aren't really helpful imo.

[debt4get]

thank you daggersedge for those few kind words for someone who is obviously in pain...and suffering,,,,your human kindness no knows bounds...as per bl**dy usual!!!!!!!!!!1