Friend taken our van & tools

[Bang!]

The bankruptcy issue does complicate matters, as to pay your "friend" would create a fraudulent preference.

 

Its years since I read Bankruptcy law, and it was the Scottish and not English statutes, despite everything else I studied mainly being English, and most things from practise being Scottish, as I spent very little time in an English CAB.

 

The Scottish perspective was tradesmen's tools were protected, but not their vehicles (which should be sold) - but I have no recollection if this is mirrored in English law.

 

Regarding the insurance, along with fraudlent preferences, obtaining over a certain amount of credit is also an offence in Bankruptcy, which could be an issue. I know this applies at both sides of the border, but am unaware where the actual limit presently stands.

 

Have you ever met your trustee, and are they someone who you could chat to (and are they already aware of the van, or is that another potential worry)?

 

 

As stated previously, nothing about this is likely to be straightforward, and you will need to fill in a lot of the blanks first before any clear direction can be chosen. However, you have nothing to lose by writing to your "friend" to see what comes back - as it would then be the only solid information available so far!

[stu007]

Hi

 

Fully agree that the Bankruptcy does complicate this issue as there is no actual written agreement that the trustees dealing with your bankruptcy would require only a verbal agreement.

 

For more Information on Bankruptcy have a look at this link as it from the Insolvency Service and may be useful to you:

 

www.insolvency.gov.uk

[thepinguinator]

The vehicle was on the bankruptcy and the deal for the van was done before and i was alowed to keep the vehicle.he has now come back demanding more money for the vehicle ....and has taken it without the keys ...... ..the police have taken his word for it that he owns it even though he has no proof as i have the keys alarm and v5 insurance motor and taxed it and been driving it for the past 8mths.he is now demanding i pay for it... which i can't do under my bankruptcy anyway

..

[renegadeimp]

If you can prove the vehicle is legally yours and you have maintained and driven it etc. Then it is blatant theft. However to ascertain if it is yours, you would need ALL the vehicles documentation.

[wend969]

We have all the vehicles documents.

[renegadeimp]

If you have all the documents, they are all in your name, you have the keys and he has taken it, then it is theft. Plain and simple.

[thepinguinator]

But the police won't do anything they have just taken his word for it over the phone and saying its civil ...

[renegadeimp]

You MUST tell them that he has stolen the van. To them they probably think you loaned the van and he took it back because you didnt pay.

[thepinguinator]

Told them all the information but they have said he is claiming ownership as i still owe him money for vehicle and tools what are in the vehicle he can legaly hold it in his lock up and extort the money out of me as it civil law not criminal.so i am now paying for insurance on a vvehicle i can't use and can't get my tools so can't work and so am knacerd basically

[renegadeimp]

Cancel the insurance and start court action. Send him a notice of pre-action detailing exactly what you want achieved, then if he doesnt comply, take it through the courts.

[assisted blonde]

The problem is that you dont seem to have any written agreement about payment for the van and tools, I am not quite sure how the van is on your bankruptcy if you dont have any paperwork to show that you are purchasing it or paying it off. In my experience Insolvancy practioners require documented proof of debts etc before they are included in a bankruptcy petition as all creditors have to be informed of the petition.

So if the van is on your bankruptcy petition then the paperwork must show how much you owe on it.

[thepinguinator]

i didnt owe anything on the veichle as i had paid for it well bar 50 quid so didnt go on my bankruptcy as a debt it went on as a assett but because it was mine soley for work and was only valued at 1350 pound i was allowed to keep it.... he has now come back 6mths later and now demanding more money and he has taken the van with the tools in it and is now not letting me take it out of the lock up till its paid for .... he has no proof of ownership himself just his name on v5 as last registerd keeper ..i am now the holder of the v5 aswell has having keys alarm fob have just paid for the mot and insurance and have just taxed it and there is other clients materials in the van and my own tools as well as the ones what need paying at the merchant so he has the veichle which is worth around 1500 i have paid 950 of plus 500 towards the tools so he has in his possesion more than i actually owe.... the police say because he has not actually drove it its not twoc and he is perfectly within his rights to hold the veichle in his lock up till i pay even if he has no proof of ownership or what i suposedly owe he just told them over the phone and they have taken his word for it ......

[renegadeimp]

To be honest i think you need to take legal advice about this.

[heliosuk]

The fact it is on your asset list probably explains quite a few things. It shouldn't be as you don't own it outright.

 

One thing is for certain and that is that it is not theft.

 

In fact your friend actually might be your friend after all!! As he is protecting his 5% share it means the van cannot be removed. You have unwittingly led yourself into this situation but he needs to prove you owe the money.

 

You really need to take Bangs advice here and either get the issues out in the open face to face and reasonably discuss them or get the issue in writing. Personally I think you are on shakey ground but there are parts of your post which suggest you could probably sort it out with him.

 

I don't think you have anywhere to go on the legal route with this as you need it sorted very quickly.

 

With respect.............is there something you have not told him that he should know and has subsequently found out???

 

That's how these things usually developand then get blown out of proportion.

[renegadeimp]

Like i said, go and get legal advice. A lot of solicitors give the first half hour or an hour for free. See what they say, then take it from there. They can go into much MUCH more detail than anyone on here could ever do.

[thepinguinator]

got in from work and got a letter of police with a crime number saying they are doing everything to find my veichle but all lines of enquirey are case closed at the moment lol ... even though they no were it is ha ha laughable or what... so every one on here with a dispute according to the police you dont need a court order or a ccj or appoint a bailliff you can just go and take stuff yourself even with no proof that it is yours ...

[renegadeimp]

GEt that legal advice. It sounds like you should also make a complaint to the Chief Inspector of your local police force.

[thepinguinator]

already did make a complaint at the station on tuesday and he just said he owns nearly half the veichle and he has took it back as he is claiming ownership so basically it was tuff luck and go and see a solicitor..but all evidence was given over the phone and he gave no proof whatsoever that the veichle was is and there is no agreement in lace for how long i had to pay for the tools or this so called extra money i owe which has just appeard in his mind but apparently he can do that ..

[renegadeimp]

He doesnt own it if your name is on the documents. He needs to PROVE he owns half of it.

 

Did you speak to the front desk, or did you submit a complaint in writing to the chief inspector? THe front desk reps are usually volunteers who dont really have much understanding of the law.

[thepinguinator]

the police came out on the monday and took all details and they rang him upand he told them he put the veichle in the lock up and was claiming ownership as i owed him money over the phone they took is word for it and the crime no was withdrawn as they said it was civil... after taking advise of here i went down to the station tuesday morning and asked to see a senior officer in charge. i was taking into room and showed him v5 the keys and alarm foib mot and insurance ...and reported it as theft he was addament it wasnt and gave me loads of alarming things you can actually do without it being a crime apparently i can hold a knife to someones throat if they owe you money and demand it back all legal apparently.. i told him only things bought on hp are not yours until fuly paid for unlike any othe sale which you own them which is why a catolouge cant remove goods they have to go to court and sue you for the money... he then said he would look into it and i had to wait. he then brought another officer with him while he went of to speak to theif on the phone the other officer was very understanding and said the tools were civil which which i new but was very interested in the details of the veichle and was going to do something about it until the other officer came back in and said he is saying is claiming ownership as i owe him for tools and also the van even yet again showing him no proof he was very abrupt with me and said its quite clearly civil and to go and see a solicitor and thats that...

[Ell-enn]

Do you have legal cover with your house insurance - lots of policies have that built in. If so, you can ring them and get advice from a solicitor

[thepinguinator]

seing cab tomos see if they can shed any light ..thing is not been able to work all week so lost weks wages and cant finish customers jobs aswell as morgage due monday insurance on tues and wont be able to pay cant afford solicitors fees so totally nackerd ..

[Ell-enn]

Do you have legal cover with your house insurance - lots of policies have that built in. If so, you can ring them and get advice from a solicitor

 

Have you checked your house insurance for this.....

[renegadeimp]

I still think you need to file a formal complaint with the chief inspector. It really sounds like the officers who came had no clue what they were doing.

[thepinguinator]

yes thank you but not coverd for this or on my motor insurance as i dnt have a crime no for van insurance ...