Lloyds Unfair Charges

[joeblogs]

I wonder if someone could advise me please.

 

I used to have 2 Lloyds current accounts, both are now closed down. I still have a Lloyds loan but for the time being have come to an arrangement for that.

 

The current account which the Lloyds loan was being paid from was in 2010 0.18p in credit. I was unable to make the loan payment and they charged me £20 returned d/d and £25 personal loan charge.

 

The whole thing spirraled out of control and before I knew it they were charging 15 per day unplanned overdraft fee and interest until the account was £214.05 overdrawn in March 2011 (therefore they had taken charges and interest to the tune of £213.87 as I deduct the 18p lol)

 

Do you think I am entitled to reclaim these extortionate charges and if so, shall I use this letter template - Credit/Store Card Letter Template.

 

Thanks for any advice, JB

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO, if these accounts are closed, then why bother trying to reclaim the charges?

 

I don't see what you want to achieve? You won't have to pay them the charges anyway..

[joeblogs]

Thanks Bazooka, I didnt explain clearly in my original post, but I had to pay the charges and bring the account to a zero balance before Lloyds would allow me to close the accounts.

 

JB

[Bazooka Boo]

A ha, I see!

 

Well TBH, I don't see why you shouldn't?

 

It is definitely well worth asking them to refund the charges...they can only say no..

[joeblogs]

Thanks Bazooka, when I write to Lloyds shall I use the letter the the letters template - Credit/Store Card Letter?

 

Thanks, JB

[Bazooka Boo]

Do you know exactly what charges you want to reclaim?

You might like to work out the actual cost of the refund using http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?757-Interest-Tutorial-and-Spreadsheets

 

I think? It would be a simple letter from yourself requesting they refund the charges, but not 100% sure as every time the bank has charged me for something I have reclaimed it back there & then.

[joeblogs]

Thanks for the advice. OK, I'm going to send them a letter to challenge about what I consider to be their excessive charges i.e.:-

 

I was unable to make the loan payment and they charged me £20 returned d/d and £25 personal loan charge.

 

Then Lloyds started charging £15 per day unplanned overdraft fee and interest until the account was £214.05 overdrawn in March 2011

 

I'm not sure about what to put in the letter to Lloyds, shall I use this letter template - Credit/Store Card Letter Template.

 

The account is now closed as I had to pay the £214.05 before they would close the account. Any advice on the letter I should send to them would be very helpful.

[Halibutt]

Joe - I'd add in your letter that you're considering referring the case to OFT and FSA. Especially in light of the current banking scandals.

 

Also, if you're in financial hardship, (unemployed, on DLA, etc.) then those are also things to mention as the High Court judgement about unfair bank charges doesn't completely cover refunds/partial refunds to hardship cases. I successfully reclaimed £370 from Barclays on those grounds.

 

Good luck mate.

 

H. x

[rdm2006]

was the d/d returned unpaid ?

 

What I am thinking is - If they did not pay the loan, then you had 18p credit, less £20.00 returned DD charge = bal - £19.88 (£44.88 if the loan charges was added too - but shoulldn't this be added to the loan itself??????).

 

This means that the debit balance was entirely a result of this charge.

 

Under FSA BCOB's they have to treat you fairly and a charge (which takes you overdrawn) can not attract other unauthorised borrowing charges (technically they authorised this borrowing by adding a charge which they knew would result in a negative balance - the mind boggles )

 

EDIT: they can hardly say that they did not know that deducting a £20/£45 charge from an 18p balance would result in a negative can they? - although i am sure that they WILL try.

 

Thus, (assuming nothing else took you overdrawn) all subsequent unauthorised borrowing charges are unfair.

 

 

(someone successfully reclaimed from RBS with this) it may work or it may not, but it is certainly worth a try.

 

If they did pay the loan too - then they have not acted in your best interest, but in the interest of creating a revenue stream.

Edited July 1, 2012 by rdm2006

[joeblogs]

Hello rdm2006

 

Sorry about the delay in replying. Yes the Direct Debit was returned unpaid and the loan was not paid. And yes, the debit balance resulted entirely from Lloyds continually taking charges.

 

I have wrote to them the following letter:

 

Formal Complaint./ Unfair Charges Resulting in Default.

 

Dear Lloyds

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to late fees and over limit charges, are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that we opened our account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

On 27 October 2010, we were 0.18p in credit. On 1st November 2010 Lloyds charged us £20 to return a Direct Debit and a further £25 charge was unlawfully applied on 3rd November 2010.

 

Your unfair charges and practices made our account spiral out of control and before we knew it you were applying a daily charge of £15 per day unplanned overdraft fees and interest until the account was eventually £214.05 overdrawn in March 2011 all of which were due to unlawful fees applied by Lloyds.

 

If you minus the 18p we had in credit on 27 October 2010, Lloyds have taken charges and interest between 1st November 2010 – 7th March 2011 to the tune of £213.87 which we feel is absolutely outrageous and we ask that you now refund this amount by way of a cheque made payable to Mr Joe Blogs and send it to the address shown at the top right hand corner of this letter.

 

We enclose copies of the bank statements and ask you to pay careful attention to statement number 76 where you have taken £150 in fees for the period 03.11.10. – 12.11.10. and then a monthly fee of an additional £15.

 

We had to come to a payment arrangement with Lloyds Collections and pay off these extortionate fees before we could close the bank account. Your slogan ‘Lloyds for the journey’ is correct as you certainly took us for a ride.

 

We are frankly shocked that you have operated our account in this way as we had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as our fiduciary.

 

Additionally, you have entered default notices against our credit records. These defaults occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you, or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to our account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum of £213.87, we require that you remove the default entries from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entries will not be acceptable.

 

We require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notices. If you do not comply fully within 14 days, we shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus our costs, without further notice.

 

We shall also consider referring the matter to the OFT and FSA in light of the current banking scandals as we are suffering from severe financial hardship and your unprofessional conduct has not helped our situation in any way, shape or form.

 

We then received a reply from Lloyds as follows:

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxx.

 

I am concerned to hear about the problem you've had regarding the application of bank charges to your account number XYZ. Please accept my apologies for the inconveience that we've caused you.

 

My understanding of your complaint is:

 

* you are unhappy with charges incurred on your account for the last 6 years and would like them refunded with statutory interest

* you are currently experiencing financial difficulties

* you would like us to remove all default notices that have been applied

 

We try to help our customers by reminding them it's important to have enough money in their account to make payments.

 

Payments may include debit card transactions, direct debits, standing orders, your monthly account fee or any charges and interest you may have incurred.

 

When we opened your account we gave you a copy of our terms and conditions which you signed for to say you understood. If you would like any further information about this then please call into your local branch.

 

You may be aware that we, and some of the other major UK banks, have been in legal proceedings with the Office of Fair Trading about the level, fairness or lawfulness of these charges.

 

These legal proceedings came to a conclusion on the 25 November 2009, when the Supreme Court decided that, as long as they are clearly set out, the level of unplanned overdraft charges cannot be assessed for fairness under the consumer fairness legislation known as the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.

 

We understand your complaint is that the unplanned overdraft charges we applied are penalties and/or unfair because they're too high.

 

The outcome of the legal proceedings means that the bank charges you've complained about are not penalties and the Supreme Court has also decided that the consumer fairness legislation means that the level of the charge is not a reason for finding them to be unfair.

 

I am sorry to hear that you may be experiencing financial difficulties after closing your account with us. Where a customer is experiencing financial difficulties there are a number of steps we can take to help. However, as your account is now closed you may find it useful to access our Lloydstbs.com website and go into the Advice and Guidance section on the front screen. This contains budgeting and other information you may find helpful to manage your money.

 

As we do consider each customer'[s position individually, I have undertaken a further review of your case. Unfortunately, having reviewed all the information available to me,I have not found any evidence that shows your situation has had a negative impact on the way your account has been handled.

 

You have asked for default notices to be removed from your credit file.

 

We provide credit agencies with information on the products you hold including credit cards, loans, mortgages and current accounts. This can include information on outstanding balances, missed payments and credit limits.

 

The information we provide shows a true reflection of your account activity. We are therefore unable to change the information we've recorded.

 

Unfortunately, we do not refund any overdraft or statutory interest, standard account or service charges, including the £5 Overdraft Usage Fee. This is because they are fees and charges for services that we provide you.

 

I hope I've explained why I believe we haven't made a mistake. I appreciate that my decision may not be the one you wished for, but I hope that you understand the reasons for it.

 

I am very keen to make sure I have resolved your complaint fairly. If you feel I've misunderstood your complaint or have qany further details you think I should know please do not hesitate to come back to me.

 

If you remain unhappy, you also have the option to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service, so long as you do this within six months of the date of this letter. I've enclosed a leaflet providing contact details of our commitment to how we deal with complaints. (NOT INCLUDED)

 

If you have any questions about my reply or have any further information to add, I will be very pleased if you call me personally on xxxxxxxxxx.

 

Sorry the post is so long, but I feel Lloyds have robbed me as it is they who put in in debit by constantly taking charges out of my account.

 

Any advice on how to reply would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Joe Blogs

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This is one now for the ICO The Technical Guidance on defaults says that if a default sum consists of charges without which the account would not have been defaulted no default should be palced, this seems to apply here.

 

So a report to the ICO and a complaint to FOS is the way forward here I think.

 

If you need help with letters give me a call.

[joeblogs]

Thanks very much for your advice Brigadier.

 

Sorry, but who are ICO? Also I would like to accept your kind offer to help with letters.

 

Thanks again, Joe

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The Information Commissioners Office resposible for the admin of the Data Protection Act 1998.

[joeblogs]

Thanks Brigs, any chance you could help me with what i should say in the letters please.

 

Joe

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes certainly, I'll do a draft for you tomorrow as I am out this evening, better not to rush it!

[joeblogs]

Thanks very much Brigs.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok Letter to LLoyds

 

The Data Controller

 

Ref: Formal Complaint/Unfair Default.

Lloyds Ref:xxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I refer to my letter dated xx xx xxxx and your response dated xx xx xxxx I find your response inadquate to say the the least.

 

Having now looked into the reason for this default it is manifestly obvious that the default was enitirely caused by the bank

applying unwarrented charges to the account.

 

I refer you to the technical guidance issued regarding the placing of such defaults : If a default sum is made up of charges without which the account would not be defaulted, no default should be placed.''

 

I would like Lloyds to review this situation as a matter of urgency as I have been advised to report this matter to the Information Commissioners office and or the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

send recorded delvery.

 

If their response is unsatisfactory we can then draw up the complaints to the regeulators.

[joeblogs]

Thanks very much for all your help Brigs. I will update you when I receive their reply.

[joeblogs]

Have an update from Lloyds in response to Brigs letter in post 17 above. Their letter goes like this:

 

Dear Joe

 

Thank you for your letter concerning your complaint about bank charges.

 

We understand you are still unhappy with our decision, and while we appreciate that you are still concerned, you have not provided any new information that enables us to change our decision.

 

You have asked for default notices to be removed from your credit file.

 

We provide credit agencies with information on the products you hold including credit cards, laons, mortgages and current accounts. This can include information on outstanding balances, missed payments and credit limits.

 

The information we provide shows a true reflection of your account activity. We are therefore unable to change the information we've recorded.

 

As the decision in our original letter has not changed I would like to remind you that we gave you six months to refer your concerns to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If we receive further correspondence from you on this subject we will note your comments and add them to our file.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Now again, I reiterate, these charges were taken from our account when it was still in credit. Lloyds continually taking the charges from the account caused the account to become overdrawn. Now they are basically saying 'if you write back we are going to ignore you'.

 

Any advice folks, shall I go down the FOS route or is there another option?

 

Thanks, Joe

Edited September 20, 2012 by ims21

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A complaint to FOS Joe, is the only route forward>

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

I can see how this will end...

[joeblogs]

A complaint to FOS Joe, is the only route forward>

 

I will look into that route over the weekend. Any tips Brigs on filing a complaint to the FOS?

 

Joe

[joeblogs]

I can see how this will end...

 

Please enlighten me bigshoes

[Tartan Barty]

Lloyds put a default on my file which was wrong so I complained to the ICO. They found in my favour and told Lloyds to remove it, which they agreed to.....3 months later its still there. Time for court me thinks. You have to keep at them.....they want you to become fustrated and just give up!!!

[twofoot]

Compo claim hovering me thinks.