Black Horse agreement not signed by me

[deano90]

I took out a hp agreement in 2007 but did not sign the agreement but there are signatures on the agreement that are not mine and do not match my signature. The car was then written off in 2009 and after a insurance payment was made to them they direct debit was stopped. They have since put nearly £7000 worth of charges on the account as the direct debit was stopped. My question is even though I had the car from them as I didnt sign the agreement and someone else has signed it probably the garage when they realised I hadn't signed it. Is the agreement still enforceable without my actual signature? I have informed them that it is not my signature but all I get from them is pay us or we will pass it to a debt collector.

 

I've been ignoring them for a while now after they wouldn't listen to me on the phone and they havent sent me a copy of the agreement despite me asking for one. Well today I found a card on posted through the door from a black horse customer service representive asking me to contact them. What should I do next?

 

I'm hoping someone on here can help me as im a little worried about what they are going to do next and like I said when I tell them I didn't sign it they just ignore me and demand payment.

 

Dean

Edited May 3, 2012 by deano90

[Bazooka Boo]

Who was the insurance with and did they pay the HP company?

 

7k of charges? Are you serious? You'll have to prove that, as even I don't believe you!

If they do pass it to a DCA then your fun will begin, they are hilarious to deal with!

[42man]

So are you saying that fraud has taken place ? Have you not been the owner/driver of the car ? Unless you report it to the police as fraud or deny ever having the car then I can't see it being unenforceable....

[debt4get]

i think you are going to have to give us a little more to go on

when the car was totalled did the insurance company pay up the total owing or just what the car was worth at the time

if you had use of the car it is going to be difficult to argue that the agreement wasnt signed by yourself and is unenforceable

7k seems an awful lot in the way of charges and they are going to have to go some to explain why they are so high

it would seem this may be made up of the shortfall from the insurance and what was left on the agreement plus what they have added can you confirm?

[deano90]

Hi guys a little more info for you. At the time of write off I had paid roughly £2300 to black horse. When the car was written off by the insurance company they paid £8300 minus the insurance premium they sent black horse £6700. So there was then a sort fall to settle the agreement of £2150 which was fine. But then black horse decided to put all the interest for the whole five years on to the account which was about £6000 plus the other charges from canceling the direct debit and as this has been going on for a while the total now amounts that they say I owe them to £9780. So I done a little digging around as I thought this was very unfair but they would not back down so after alot of looking at paperwork I found that I had not signed the agreement paperwork. I did have the car from them but the garage didn't get me to sign the HP agreement. So as I know I had the car from them I would accept I might owe them some money to the value of what they paid the garage which would be around £2150 left for me to pay but as I didnt sign the agreement can they really hold me liable for all the interest and charges? As curently they want £9780. Any more questions or detail needed just ask.

 

Dean

 

i think you are going to have to give us a little more to go on

when the car was totalled did the insurance company pay up the total owing or just what the car was worth at the time

if you had use of the car it is going to be difficult to argue that the agreement wasnt signed by yourself and is unenforceable

7k seems an awful lot in the way of charges and they are going to have to go some to explain why they are so high

it would seem this may be made up of the shortfall from the insurance and what was left on the agreement plus what they have added can you confirm?

[deano90]

The insurance was with Admiral and they paid Black horse directly. The details of how they got to the charges are posted above. Im quite concerned about what to do as they will not listen to me when I try to speak to them on the phone they don't care and just demand money. Like I said originally I've had a card posted through my door now so they are starting to come to my house. Do I speak to them when they come to my door next? Do I send a letter to them If so what should I state? Or do I just continue to ignore them?

Dean

Edited May 4, 2012 by deano90

[dadofholly]

You need to send them a couple of letters from the library section of this site.

 

The telephone harrasment letter and the letter about door step visits.

 

Keep a copy of the door step visit letter handy and if they come to your home simply give them the letter and close the door - do not get into a discussion with them.

 

When they phone you do not speak to them - do not answer their security questions. Tell them to write to you only and hang up the phone - do not get into conversation with them.

 

keep all contact with them to letters only.

[dadofholly]

Ref: above post

 

Here is a link to the telephone harrasment letter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

Here is the door step letter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?410-LETTER-USED-WHEN-A-DCA-THREATENS-A-DOORSTEP-VISIT

[debt4get]

have you paid anything since 2007 I think the reason why its getting nasty now is it is rapidly heading towards statute barred...as to their charges well if it were myself i would be telling em to sling their hook...I dont think a court will look to kindly to all these charges accruing without them applying for a ccj before now...it is up to you how you want to play it.....send letters as advised.....myself i would sit and wait and see if they issue a county court claim....

[dadofholly]

have you paid anything since 2007 I think the reason why its getting nasty now is it is rapidly heading towards statute barred...as to their charges well if it were myself i would be telling em to sling their hook...I dont think a court will look to kindly to all these charges accruing without them applying for a ccj before now...it is up to you how you want to play it.....send letters as advised.....myself i would sit and wait and see if they issue a county court claim....

 

Good points in the above quote.

 

Make sure you head any letters you send with the title, 'I do not acknowledge any debt to your company'

[deano90]

have you paid anything since 2007 I think the reason why its getting nasty now is it is rapidly heading towards statute barred...as to their charges well if it were myself i would be telling em to sling their hook...I dont think a court will look to kindly to all these charges accruing without them applying for a ccj before now...it is up to you how you want to play it.....send letters as advised.....myself i would sit and wait and see if they issue a county court claim....

 

I haven't paid anything since the car was written off in 2009. So am I responsible for the interest and charges they have put on even though I didn't sign the agreement? I hope they don't take me to court I wouldn't know what to do. I may send the letters to stop the visits and the telephone calls.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Yes. The same thing happened to me. i didn't have gap insurance. I put the gap on my DMP. Interest was frozen at zero. You could try and negotiate the interest charged after the insurance company paid them. they will have given you figures at the time. You may need to SAR them to understand the state of the account.

[deano90]

Yes. The same thing happened to me. i didn't have gap insurance. I put the gap on my DMP. Interest was frozen at zero. You could try and negotiate the interest charged after the insurance company paid them. they will have given you figures at the time. You may need to SAR them to understand the state of the account.

 

So even though I did not sign the HP agreement they can charge me interest I didn't agree to? And charges I didn't agree to? I was thinking that because I didn't sign the HP agreement that I would be able to offer the minimum amount which would be to pay them up to the amount they lended in the first place and that I should not have to pay them any interest or charges as I never signed for their rate of interest in the HP agreement? Am I wrong in thinking this?

[dadofholly]

Did you ever see a copy of the agreement?

Have you ever put a claim in for the PPI and the charges?

[dpick]

Hi not 100% sure with a car loan but I believe that if the agreement was created before April 2007 then as it was not signed by you it is unenforceable under CCA s127(3) with regard to s61(a) remembering that amendments made in CCA 2006 were not retrospective.

 

Can the experts give opinion please.

 

dpick

[deano90]

I haven't put a claim in for the charges how do I do that? It was in July 07 that I got the car. So as I havent made a payment since March 09 will this eventually just become statue barred?

[debt4get]

if you do not acknowledge or pay anything towards the debt after a period of 6 years (5 in scotland) debt becomes statute barred last payment 2009 so statute barred in 2015

[dadofholly]

If a lot of this debt is ppi or charges then claim them back + 8% statutory interest. This will at least reduce your balance.

[deano90]

There has been some good advice so far. Does anyone have a template letter for me to claim back the charges?

[deano90]

After speaking to some friends I have been told to go to a solicitor as the GAP insurance was miss sold which I am going to do as they did not pay the difference between the car insurance payout and the balance so basically the GAP insurance wasn't worth the paper it was written on. But does anyone have any advise on which one to use as I know there are alot advertised on the tv. Should I use one of these or go to a private solicitor? Thanks for all your help so far guys.

Edited May 5, 2012 by deano90

[dadofholly]

So you had Gap insurance - you never mentioned this in your previous posts.

 

Was you up to date with the premiums?

 

What reason did they give for not paying out?