Parking Eye Parking Charge Notice, Rheidol Retail Park, Aberystwyth

[Trevor Jose]

Hi there

re: the Rheidol retail car park, Aberystwyth. I received last week a Parking notice charge of £80 for overstaying by 13 minutes in this car park. After posting about this on Facebook, I received several replies from people who have received parking notice charges from PArking Eye and have been advised to ignore them, as they have no legal standing as it is a private car car park that is free and tehrefore they have suffered no loss of revenue for a 13 minute overtsay on 2 hours free parking. Apparently, as it is a private car park thet could only make a claim fro non payment in the small claims court, which for that amount I’ve been informed is unlikely. I intend to ignore any reminder letters or letters from debt collection agency. Is this teh best course of action? I did phone Ceredigion CC trading standards, was put through to the national trading standards, who couldnt comment on other contacts re PArking Eye at Rheidol Car park.

 

Many thanks

[Michael Browne]

Yes just ignore. Be prepared for a few more threatening letters, ignore those too.

[Nev Met]

You might find the attached letter that I wrote to the Cambrian News in January reassuring

 

 

Letter to Cambrian News.pdfLetter to Cambrian News.pdf

 

Feel free to repost on your FB wall if your mates are all local to 'Aber'

[BankFodder]

Firstly you should understand that in all probability the charge is a penalty and this means that it cannot exceed actaul costs to the carpark owners of any transgression you might have committed.

 

Secondly, although the advice has generally been to ignore - and this has been the main advice on this form and elsewhere, we may change this advice and suggest that people may want to write to this company and to any others and tell them that you do not acknowledge any contract or any debt but that if they can give you a detailed account of any losses which any alleged transgression might have caused, you are prepared - without any admission - to consider whether you might be prepared to pay that sum.

 

Part of the reasoning behind this is that the British Parking Association has claimed that their sue between 36,000 and 90,000 people per year. I don't really accept this claim but I expect that most of the people who are sued are people who haven't responded and that most of the judgments which are obtained are default judgments which are obtained because the defendant has not communicated.

 

I don't see any disadvantage in writing to them and basically telling them to get lost - on the basis that I have outlined above. But at least the parkling company knows that getting their money won't be an easy ride. Also, if it goes to court you can then show a judge your correspondence and show the judge that the claimant brought the claim without entering into a reasonable dialogue with you. This is likely to get a judge onto your side - especialyu if there happens to be any question of costs.

 

Some people may shoot me down for advising you in this way, but as I have said, we are still working this out - but certainly it can't do you any harm.

[Trevor Jose]

Just read you letter to the Cambrian News, I think I am reassured now. Many thanks

[Nev Met]

Whilst it may appear that I also ignored - I did and I didn't - Whilst I ignored Parking Eye I complained to the BPA and especially the DVLA (because I identified them as the 'enablers')

 

I also now no longer advocate 'ignore' for three main reasons 1) I feel that it is important to evidence the fact that you have behaved reasonably and the barrister Tim Kevan has drafted an excellent letter which can be a useful template to work off. 2) The rk liability will become law in October this year and I personally don't feel that ignore will be as strong as a defence as it currently is 3) I have seen submissions made by the BPA to the government which, in lobbying for rk liability, cited internet advice of 'ignore' as evidence of the need for reform - hence rk liability.

 

One last bit of advice, if you do choose to write, appeal, use Tim Kevan's letter, never make any admission as to who the driver was.

 

Tim Kevan's letter can be found by using google and putting "The Barrister Blog A challenge to a private parking charge notice"

 

Ignore or write the decision is yours

[Trevor Jose]

Many thanks for this info, I will consider this option

[Trevor Jose]

ok, thank you, I have copied Tim Kevan's private parking notice template letter, I will re-consider my original intention to ignore in light of this

[jannyT]

My son was sent a parking charge notice from this exact same company in this exact same carpark in August last year. He had 3 threatening notices in total and then we have had nothing since. He ignored each one. Not sure if things have changed since then but we followed advice from this forum and it's been all quiet for 8 months now.

[Crocdoc]

Firstly you should understand that in all probability the charge is a penalty and this means that it cannot exceed actaul costs to the carpark owners of any transgression you might have committed.

 

Secondly, although the advice has generally been to ignore - and this has been the main advice on this form and elsewhere, we may change this advice and suggest that people may want to write to this company and to any others and tell them that you do not acknowledge any contract or any debt but that if they can give you a detailed account of any losses which any alleged transgression might have caused, you are prepared - without any admission - to consider whether you might be prepared to pay that sum.

 

Part of the reasoning behind this is that the British Parking Association has claimed that their sue between 36,000 and 90,000 people per year. I don't really accept this claim but I expect that most of the people who are sued are people who haven't responded and that most of the judgments which are obtained are default judgments which are obtained because the defendant has not communicated.

 

I don't see any disadvantage in writing to them and basically telling them to get lost - on the basis that I have outlined above. But at least the parkling company knows that getting their money won't be an easy ride. Also, if it goes to court you can then show a judge your correspondence and show the judge that the claimant brought the claim without entering into a reasonable dialogue with you. This is likely to get a judge onto your side - especialyu if there happens to be any question of costs.

 

Some people may shoot me down for advising you in this way, but as I have said, we are still working this out - but certainly it can't do you any harm.

 

I must admit that I have always shared this view, as I deal with this issue quite regularly.

[Iordana]

Hi there

re: the Rheidol retail car park, Aberystwyth. I received last week a Parking notice charge of £80 for overstaying by 13 minutes in this car park. After posting about this on Facebook, I received several replies from people who have received parking notice charges from PArking Eye and have been advised to ignore them, as they have no legal standing as it is a private car car park that is free and tehrefore they have suffered no loss of revenue for a 13 minute overtsay on 2 hours free parking. Apparently, as it is a private car park thet could only make a claim fro non payment in the small claims court, which for that amount I’ve been informed is unlikely. I intend to ignore any reminder letters or letters from debt collection agency. Is this teh best course of action? I did phone Ceredigion CC trading standards, was put through to the national trading standards, who couldnt comment on other contacts re PArking Eye at Rheidol Car park.

 

Many thanks

 

I just received one myself... for waiting for someone in a Morrison.. without getting a valid ticket! So I just e-mailed them offering to pay for the ticket (£1.00) also explaining that The Bill of Rights says "And several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied"... so their "penalty" is not only unlawful, but also void. I told them that if they carry on trying to extort money from me I will complain to OFT!

If they do not accept me paying the original ticket (invoice), then they will never be able to justify in court claiming £50 or £80!

 

The funny thing is that the Bill of Rights is messing with the Traffic Law also.. according with it all the penalties and fines given without a court judgement are void, including the ones given by the council! If you all noticed, on a PCN is wrote something like "by paying it you accept the liability".. so if you do not accept the liability, how can you pay it? And only a Judge can impose a liability on someone! Anyway, you will not find judges openly agreeing that .. all the PCN are void and the Traffic Law is against the Bill of Rights, but they will be very open in accepting any other grounds in appealing a PCN as long as you mentioned the Bill of Rights.

 

Only the traffic penalties are different (speeding and traffic offences) those are going to the Magistrate Court!!! The parking tickets (I mean the Council not any other private parking lot) are going to the County Court! Huge difference!

 

My advice! Send them an e-mail, and offer to pay for another hour ticket (it can't be more then a couple of pounds) if they refuse, ignore them! If it comes to court, you do have your proof you had the intention to pay for using their lot for an extra 13 minutes... so such a charge would not be reasonable from their part!

 

If you do this, they will never take you to court nor do anything as they know it will be a lost of time and money from their part!

 

Never call them!

 

Good Luck!

 

Also: you can complain to OFT (Office of Fair Trading) if you feel harassed in any way, or if they ignore your e-mails, or if they send you letters that are misleading or letters made to look as released by a court and so on ! OFT has the power to revoke licencing, including the debt recovery companies licence!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Iordana

[autopilot_uk]

Hi there.

 

I just got a fine of £80 and would like to complain to the park owners, as complaining to Parking Eye will be pointless.

 

For being 15 mins over and spending money there, I feel the fine is very heavy handed.

 

Does anyone know of a telephone number I can reach them on or know where I can find one?

 

Thanks.

[Nev Met]

Hi there.

 

I just got a fine of £80 and would like to complain to the park owners, as complaining to Parking Eye will be pointless.

 

For being 15 mins over and spending money there, I feel the fine is very heavy handed.

 

Does anyone know of a telephone number I can reach them on or know where I can find one?

 

Thanks.

 

 

I've got the email contact details of the landowners company, I'll try and dig them out for you

[DBC]

Please don't call it a "fine" when you talk to them. To give it that name confers a legitimacy this invoice doesn't deserve.

[Nev Met]

Email: [email protected] and cc [email protected]

 

This is a template letter that I drafted up (shamelessly based on the 'Tim Kevan' letter) I used it in a genuine case which is why there are still some case specifics in it.

 

You could use it as a starter for 10 in drafting your email to Fletcher King, the landowners. Write as the registered keeper but not as the driver (refer to the driver in the third person only)

 

 

Your Name

Your Address

Date

 

Without prejudice, save as to costs

 

Attn of (name of private parking company director)

Your ref: Parking Charge Notice

 

I am writing in respect of a parking charge notice received.

 

Xxxxxx recently received a 'Parking Charge Notice' ref xxxxxx. This charge is disputed for the reasons set out below. Please note that although the whole basis of the charge is disputed, the primary concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

 

1. No contract

There was no contract between xxxxxx and (name of private parking company). The driver did not see the signs when they parked and at that time had no idea any charge whatsoever was required. So the requirements of forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms, etc were not satisfied.

 

2. Trespass

If there was no contract, then at most the driver was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this was the case, the driver would be liable to damages. Given that the driver did no damage to the car park and furthermore that the car park was not full when the car first stopped or when it left, there was no loss at all.

 

3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable

Even if there was a contract (which is denied):

 

a. Punitive

The charge you are imposing is punitive and therefore void (ie unenforceable). The £xxx charge is arbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges (which in any event are a completely different matter). This would also apply to your mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.

 

b. Unfair

The charge you are imposing is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" and 5(2) states: "A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term."

 

c. Unreasonable

The charge you are imposing is an unreasonable indemnity clause under section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

 

Further information

This letter does not constitute a written appeal in accordance with your Notice and should not be misinterpreted as such. However, I also make the following points and I would be grateful for answers to all questions raised and in this respect remind you of the obligations set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct).

 

1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. If you claim that the driver entered into a contract, please send me a complete breakdown of all the terms and conditions of that contract which you say were agreed.

 

2. Your loss: please give me a full breakdown as to the actual loss you say was suffered by either your business or the landowner.

 

3. Whilst I wish to re-emphasise that this is not an appeal, I nevertheless require a copy of the appeal procedure which you follow, along with details of what factors you take into account, who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent, whether you require oral or written submissions, whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments you would put on this matter in any subsequent appeal process so that any additional response may be considered in light of any issues or further issues which are raised.

 

4. Time for the appeal. Your parking charge notice says: ‘If you wish to appeal against this parking charge you must submit your case in writing within xx days from the date of issue.’ Please explain to me how you say this complies with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (above).

 

 

5. Your 'Parking Charge Notice': what do you say is the status of this document? Do you claim it is an invoice under a contract (in other words an invoice that would generally be declared to the Inland Revenue) or does it have some other status? If it is the latter, please clarify exactly what you say it is.

 

6. Your status. Your Parking Charge Notice simply mentions (name of private parking company). Please tell me who exactly is making this charge. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

 

7. Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter. What is the relationship between the landowner and your company? Please explain any involvement at all of the landowner with your company as well as specifically with the Parking Charge Notices?

 

8. Your Notice mentions 'photograph evidence’ please send me a copy of your procedures for the handling and processing of the evidence and the relevant audit trail. Furthermore, under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of all such photographs along with a copy of all other data you hold relating to either the car, myself as the registered keeper and/or the driver at the time.

 

9. According to the photographs on the Parking Charge Notice, the vehicle was at the location for a minimum of xxxxx minutes (although that claim is totally refuted by the driver). Please explain why a Parking Charge Notice was not affixed to the vehicle during this claimed seven minute period.

 

10. If your operator claims that there was some reason for him being unable to do so, please provide me with a copy of the ticket or any other documentation which your operator commenced or created either during this claimed seven minute period or upon which you have issued the parking charge notice.

 

11. Please explain why your operator refused to allow the driver to inspect his operator’s identity card or his SIA ID?

 

12. Please send me a photograph of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract has been entered into. Please ensure that the photograph shows the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner.

 

13. Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors (if any) in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

 

14. To avoid doubt (and without suggesting that you would), please do not do any of the following:

 

a. Send me any document purporting to be from the County Court unless it is a valid Claim Form duly issued.

b. Write to me threatening to send round bailiffs without first going through the process of issuing a Claim Form and obtaining judgment.

c. Send me any standard letters either from your company or debt collectors without addressing the specific points raised in this response.

 

15. If you want to make a claim, for your information you can issue online. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue:

a. I reserve the right to add further arguments to the Defence.

b. Please rest assured that we or our representative will be more than happy to attend any court mediations that might be offered.

 

 

I look forward to receiving your comprehensive reply by xxxxxxxxxx.

Regards

 

..............................................................................

Until and unless specifically requested and permission granted, you have no authority to disclose or refer this or any other communication or correspondence to any other person or organisation.

[Consumer1972]

What is "rk liability"?

[Nev Met]

registered keeper liability

[Anus Horribilis]

also explaining that The Bill of Rights says "And several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied"... so their "penalty" is not only unlawful, but also void.

 

To the extent which it remains valid, the Bill of Rights does not prevent a private company or person from asking for payment of a debt which they believe is due to them.

[Somebody Told Me]

Hi there.

 

I just got a fine of £80 and would like to complain to the park owners, as complaining to Parking Eye will be pointless.

 

For being 15 mins over and spending money there, I feel the fine is very heavy handed.

 

Does anyone know of a telephone number I can reach them on or know where I can find one?

 

Thanks.

 

If this is a parking charge from Parking Eye the best thing you can do is to ingore it totally.

A relative of mine received one before Christmas and was about to pay it until I convinced them otherwise.

They received 2 or 3 letters but have received nothing else from them for months.

Don't be scared of their threats just have the confidence to ignore them and they'll go away and move onto easier targets.

[lozgreenfield]

Hi

Just received my parking 'fine' from ParkingEye from St Peters Retail Park in Mansfield parked from 19:13 - 19:59. I havn't used this carpark before and genuinely didn't see the Pay and Display signs or the meters!! I didn't any form of ticket because wasn't aware needed to, just dashed into TK Max and left.

The fine is for $80 ( poounds american keyboard) but paid by June 27th 50 Pounds! Should I pay I was obviously in the wrong but it really wasn't obvious!

Any advice would be great and Thanks everso much.

[Somebody Told Me]

Ignore it.

It isn't a fine but a parking charge notice which isn't enforceable.

You'll most likely receive a few more letters from them and their solicitors threatening this and that but continue to ignore and they'll get the message a pester someone else.

[Hensrule]

My son has just had a parking charge notice through the post for the Rheidol Retail Park as he apparently exceeded the parking period by 36 minutes when he was shopping there with his girlfriend. He did not have a note put on his car window when he came back. I think this is madness at a time when shops desperately need trade that customers are fined for shopping for longer. Having read the comments here I've decided we're not paying it and will see what happens.

[instrumentsofjoy]

Yo do right. Ignore is one option. A single letter as above is another. If you write, make sure you make no admission as to liability.