Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • statute barring in Scotland is 5yrs from last payment/use date or date of default Notice + 14 days, whichever is the later. dont confuse that with the 6yrs debts show on credit files (DN's 6th bday regardless to payment or not). they'd never get a claim raised by august in 99% of cases . as long all these debts were taken out whilst resident in scotland and you have not moved since taking them out but failed to inform the original creditor before the debt sale....... then stay radio silent until sb date is reached. then if you wish send our scottish sb letter. just remember unlike E&W in scotland debts are extinguished, dead , gone , parrot. once SB'd dx  
    • Hi all, Love this site and it's no nonsense advice, have dipped in and out of the consumer forums over the years, mostly to assure myself that what I was doing was the right thing when dealing with various businesses (almost 100% success rate, thanks in part to reading and more reading here.). Anyway, the time is almost approaching where I might need to ask for some specific help and I have a couple of queries that I can't see definitively answered. Due to financial mismanagement and severe anxiety issues I stopped paying all unsecured debt in December 2018 (one slipped to the first week in Jan 2019 when the last payment was made having rechecked my bank statement from that period - all my unsecured debt direct debits were cancelled in early Jan 2019). This has left half a dozen debts;  a couple of credit cards, a bank loan, Shop Direct and some Hitachi Finance stuff having been sold on and passing the rounds through the usual suspects, Lowells, Link, PRA Group, others related to them, and then back to them again. I have somehow successfully managed to maintain radio silence and avoided anything more worrying than their begging letters.  I have blocked their phone calls and texts, bumped all emails to the spambox and had a chuckle at their desperate letters.  I've never had anybody at the door.  I have been at the same address since before I defaulted and all correspondence comes to my current home address.  I have NEVER contacted them or admitted any debt. In anticipation of them perhaps ramping up action at the last minute I've had a look at my credit report on Credit Karma (rec'd from this very place) and I see that the default dates on these range from May 2019 to November 2019. Also in preperation I've been reading, reading and reading lots here as advised. Obviously being in Scotland there are a lot fewer posts relating to these matters and it's always quite annoying when OP's do not follow up with any outcome on their cases - how rude! This has also left me a bit confused of when I am able to finally breathe easy (although cancelling all the direct debits in Jan 2019 was the biggest sigh of relief as I knew it was all going to be unmanageable and, well, default one, default all.). I've been reading that defaults should be filed 3-6 months after the missed payment but one of my larger debts was defaulted on 27th August 2019 when the last payment I made was 10th December 2018, meaning the first missed payment was 10th Jan 2019.   My query for now is - when should I infer that these debts are prescribed?  From when the payment was missed, or taking the default date plus 5 years from the credit report? The three I have with the May date are moot anyway as either way they are gone  - some letters from Lowell offering me 90% off to settle is what got me thinking these must have been near SB status, however I have one big 10k+ with a July date and another 10k+ at the end of August I am feeling a bit anxious again, even though I know there is nothing to worry about with the begging letters.  Reading the various forums I am not sure why the OC's didn't take action against me when I read time and again the surprise that other posters haven't already been taken to court for lesser amounts - I'm also surprised I've avoided any action this long as there are plenty in this forum and sub forum who are whisked off to the court by the beggers minions after only a year or so after defaulting.  There are no CCJ/decrees listed on my credit report and I have not received any such judgements against me.  I still just regularly receive the begging emails to the spambox, the blocked phone calls and the letters from the they. I'm also reading that there is no need in Scotland to send an LBC so what should I be looking out for to know that the time has come to engage with CCA requests etc? I'm afraid in a fit I threw a lot of the paperwork out but I have a box of stuff I'm going to go through which may have the original letters from the OC's. Thanks in advance for any advice.  
    • I'm at work now but promise to look in later. Can you confirm how you paid the first invoice?  It wasn't your fault if the signal was so poor and there was no alternative way to pay.  There must be a chance of reversing the charge with your bank.  There are no guarantees but Kev  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09766749/officers  has never had the backbone to do court so far.  Not even in one case,  
    • OK  so you may not have outed yourself if you said "we". No matter either way you paid. Snotty letter I am surprised that they were so quick off the mark threatening Court. They usually take months to go that far. No doubt that as you paid the first one they decided to strike quickly and scare you into paying. Dear Chuckleheads  aka Alliance,  I am replying to your LOCs You may have caught me the first time but that is  the end. What a nasty organisation you are. You do realise that you now have now no reason to continue to pursue me after reading my appeal since you know that my car was not cloned. Any further pursuit will end up with a complaint to the ICO that you are breaching my GDPR.  Please confirm that you have removed my details from your records. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I haven't gone for a snotty letter this time as they know that you paid for your car in another car park. So using a shot across their bows .  If it doesn't deter them and they send in the debt collectors or the Court you will then be able to get more money back from them for  breachi.ng your data protection than they will get should they win in Court-and they have no chance of that as you have paid. So go in with guns blazing and they might see sense.  Although never underestimate how stupid they are. Or greedy.
    • Thank you. Such a good point. They did issue all 3 before I paid though. I only paid one because I didn’t have proof of parking that time, only for two others.  Unfortunately no proof of my appeal as it was just submitted through a form on their website and no copy was sent to me. I only have the reply. I believe I just put something like “we made the honest mistake of using the incorrect parking area on the app” and that’s it. Thanks again for your help. 
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Failure to notify. Another case!


Number6
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3911 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Its not just dvla or the banks. Its everybody who wehave been told are paragons of viture use the rule when t suits them. I think this is a massively important case. I will do whatever I can to help butdoubt if its much but whatever it is you're welcome to it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 111
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I think its time you got this issue highlighted in the press. Something this major and affects every driver in Britain will undoubtedly gain their attention.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

So whats next then now - curl over and pay the fines and admit fault or battle on?

 

We need to hear more of the arguments put forward in No 6's case.

 

Naturally his frame of mind was not immediately on providing this, but I hope he will do so in due course.

 

Subject to hearing what happened, I believe the Interpretations Act still fulfils the requirement.

 

The illogical consequence could be, as Surfboy points out, that on what we know of this case, EVERYONE selling a vehicle MUST from now on actually take the V5C to a DVLA office and physically hand it over.

A nonsence that I doubt even DVLA wants - or can cope with.

 

Poor-boy.

If it were me in your position I would battle on with the known, tried, tested and succesful arguments that, for reasons that are as yet unclear, came unstuck in one case on Friday.

But what I would do would be my own personal decision for me only, based on my thoughts, readings and relish for a fight against burocracy and inefficiency.

 

That may not be appropriate for others of a different appetite, disposition and circumstances and who may value cost and time higher.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Sorry for the delay in posting further information. I wasn't minded to do so on Friday as I was a little depressed about the whole thing. Yesterday and most of today I've been very busy with work and other pressing matters.

 

At my appeal hearing the Judge was only interested in hearing submissions concerning pure issues of legality so that boiled everything down to "did I send it or didn't I?" Sounds simple yet I was in court for the best part of two hours.

 

I presented witness evidence that I had indeed posted the document as well as a statement from me affirming that I had done so. I then invoked Section 7 of the Interpretation Act.

 

I'll state at this point, and this might be useful for future cases, that the judge did not not have any copies of my submissions from the Magistrates hearing so it's best if you take everything along with you. Also he did not have a copy of the Interpretation Act with him, neither was he aware of what it said. This surprised me.

 

He was presented with a copy of the Interpretation Act, a copy of The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 Section 22 and a copy of a V5.

 

His judgement was that as section 7 of the Interpretation Act states "Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post...." and that Section 22 of the Road Vehicles ... Act makes no mention of "service by post" then Section 7 did not apply. I vehemently stated that the V5 is what everyone sees and that the V5 says to send it to a postal address; as the DVLA is an executive agency of the Dept of Transport then that constitutes provision for service by post. This was dismissed by the Judge who said that only the wording of the Act itself was important.

 

The judge awarded costs against me and contemplated increasing the severity of my sentence (he didn't in the end but his attitude made it clear to me that he thought my appeal was frivolous)!

 

This next bit may sound harsh and somewhat ungrateful, it's not meant to be, it's just the reality as I see it.

 

I know that this is important to lots of people who have been and potentially will be affected by DVLA tactics. However, I have now attended two stressful hearings expecting to win but losing both. This has cost me in terms of a conviction on my previously clean record, in terms of a bellyful of stress for both me, my partner and my children, in terms of a lot of time (approx 12 hours of court/travel/waiting time and probably 10 or more hours of research etc) and in terms of financial cost.

 

I am prepared to continue to fight this but only as a figurehead. I'm not prepared to lay myself open to any further stress or financial cost.

 

If this is going to go any further then it's axiomatic that it needs proper legal council to look at every aspect to see if there's a basis upon which to fight. It then needs a barrister + team to actually present the case at the Court of Appeal. This is serious money and if I were to lose again then, even if my own legal representation was free of charge I'm thinking that potential costs awarded against me could be very considerable.

 

I simply don't have the financial resources to risk even if I were minded to do so. The only way that I could take this forward is if my legal representation were completely pro bono and if I had guarantees that any costs awarded against me and expenses would be paid on my behalf.

 

Well, those are my initial thoughts. As I said, sorry if they seem harsh but I have to face reality.

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Number 6

 

Just been reading about your problems with DVLA

 

Quick question - did you sell you car privately or to a dealer?

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 Section 22 applies only if you sold privately

and states

22 (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

 

(a)if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b)shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following—

 

(i)the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii)the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii)a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv)a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.

 

If you sold to a dealer section 23 applies

 

23 (2) The registered keeper shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State, on that part of the registration document which relates to the transfer to a vehicle trader, or otherwise in writing, of the following—

(a)the name and address of the vehicle trader;

(b)the date on which the vehicle was transferred to the vehicle trader;

©a declaration signed by the registered keeper that he transferred the vehicle to the vehicle trader on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b); and

(d)a declaration signed by the vehicle trader that the vehicle was transferred to him on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b).

(3) If the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, the registered keeper shall deliver to the vehicle trader those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under paragraph (2).

 

In sectin 22 it states notification must be delivered to the Secretary of State but in section 23 it states the registered keeper shall deliver to the vehicle trader those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under paragraph (2).

 

It's ridiculous that these two sections have different requirements.

 

Hope this helps with you and others who are being pursued by the DVLA

Link to post
Share on other sites

The courts change things as they please.

 

I called the DVLA today asking that they have not responded to a letter I sent to them 6 weeks ago, I was told that a reply was sent. I told them that I had not recevied anything and can they prove postage - I was TOLD that them posting it is all the proof they need and I should take it up with Royal Mail!!

 

How rude!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi to all

i myself are due in court on monday with failing to notify change of keeper.i do find reading this forum that this is happening far to much with the dvla and is it just a money making scheme.on reading this forum that all you read i was sent a letter pay this or see you in court.if the dvla sent out 20,000 letters all the same at a fee of £35 lower cost thats £700,000 dont forget the court cases that people may not win or the higher £55.00 fee so we can all do the maths.i did read on were the person lost in both cases and there was going to be a fund starting.i do have another plan if everyone on here sent there complaint to the bbc watchdog program and the media go hold of it then things may happen and the bbc may start asking questions to the dvla.i just look at dont spend your money till you have to as we all know the bbc love the dvla.please post your thiughts

Link to post
Share on other sites

Section 23 specifically says "notify" rather than deliver. Section 23 also says "or otherwise in writing". Both points, especially the second part, blow the Judges comments out of the water. It's hardly likely (reasonable) that you can satisfy section 23 by posting the infomation whilst not being able to satisfy section 22 in the same manner. In order for the Judge's comments to hold true that would have to be the case.

 

The Judge has simply sought to take a small specific line of text from Section 22 / 23 and use it completely out of context. In the UK the Royal Mail is considered to be a secure way of serving / delivering documents and the Interpretation Act makes that clear. With all due respect, for a County Court Judge to have little or no understanding of this appears to be nothing short of ridiculous.

 

Secondly, it appears to me to be grossly unfair for the Judge to specify that only the legal arguments could be considered. This is perhaps where having specialist legal representation may have paid off. It simply isn't reasonable for 'The Act' to contain everything with regard to the delivery of documents. As time move forwards the possible methods of delivery may change (email for example) so it's not feasable for individual Acts to cover all methods of delivery. The methods (of delivery) which the DVLA themselves set out have to be considered when judging the case - that is pure common sense.

 

Thirdly, the Judge doesn't appear to have considered either the wording of the Interpretation Act itself or the purpose of the Act itself. The Interpretation Act uses 'OR logic' where it states "Where an Act authorises OR requires any document to be served by post" - whilst it's possible for the Judge to argue that Section 22 or 23 doesn't specificly state that a 'document being served by post is a requirement', it is not possibe for the Judge to state that the Road Vehicles Act does not "authorise" service by post. If you read the Interpretation Act carefully you'll see that there are two aspects to the logic in the sentence and that those two aspects are seperated by the word 'OR'. The judgement handed out only appears to cover the second half of the logical requirement of the statement. The defendant is clearly relying on the first part of the sentence and that is perfectly reasonable given that the DVLA themselves specify that service by post is acceptable to them - service by post is clearly an 'authorised' method of delivering the documents even if it's not a 'requirement'.

 

Fourthly, the Judge is blantantly ignoring the actual wording of the Interpretation Act in order to produce his out-of-context interpretation of the Road Vehicle Act - The Interpretation Act covers the caveat which the Judge is trying to invoke where the Act states, "Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used)". In this particular case the Road Vehicle Act uses the words "deliver" and "notify" which clearly, when placed in context, fall into the catagory 'any other experession'.

 

Fifthly, if the Judge is to believed (and the Road Vehicle Act or any other Act is to be taken literally) then one could reasonably argue that there is no requirement to actually send any document where the term 'put in writing' is used. Simply writing it down would be enough.

Edited by nehpets
Link to post
Share on other sites

REF TO MESSAGE That why iv said that everyone should send an email to watchdog as they seem to have more clout than enyone and this problem isnt going to go away as the dvla always try to make money.its alwrite for them to say it got lost in the post but when the shoes is on the other foot the joe public have to pay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for lack of response from me, I've only just seen the new posts as I'm not being notified by email even though I'm subscribed to the thread.

 

I'm just checking whether there is any prospect of taking this further as per post #82?

 

If I'm going to continue to fight then I need some input. If it's not going to go any further then I need to draw a line under it.

 

Let me know and I'll prepare accordingly.

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Number 6

 

Just been reading about your problems with DVLA

 

Quick question - did you sell you car privately or to a dealer?

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 Section 22 applies only if you sold privately

and states

22 (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

 

(a)if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b)shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following—

 

(i)the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii)the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii)a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv)a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.

 

If you sold to a dealer section 23 applies

 

23 (2) The registered keeper shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State, on that part of the registration document which relates to the transfer to a vehicle trader, or otherwise in writing, of the following—

(a)the name and address of the vehicle trader;

(b)the date on which the vehicle was transferred to the vehicle trader;

©a declaration signed by the registered keeper that he transferred the vehicle to the vehicle trader on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b); and

(d)a declaration signed by the vehicle trader that the vehicle was transferred to him on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b).

(3) If the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, the registered keeper shall deliver to the vehicle trader those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under paragraph (2).

 

In sectin 22 it states notification must be delivered to the Secretary of State but in section 23 it states the registered keeper shall deliver to the vehicle trader those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under paragraph (2).

 

It's ridiculous that these two sections have different requirements.

 

Hope this helps with you and others who are being pursued by the DVLA

 

 

Private buyer.

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

Link to post
Share on other sites

As they say posting is not good enough, this needs to be spread contry wide otherwise everyone who posts the v5 could fall foul to this money generator for the DVLA.

I wonder if BBC Watchdog are aware of this?

hello all:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice on the DVLA web site they state that when you sell a vehicle you must SEND the completed part of the V5C to DVLA Swansea , SA99 1BD.

I would be interested to know what their official meaning of SEND is in this situation.

hello all:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really sad that Number 6 lost . I am certain that there is a winnable appeal to the Court of appeal in this case but I appreciate Number 6's reasons for wanting to draw a line under his bad experience. Ironically though in my opinion the victory for the DVLA will be short lived. If the DVLA starts getting confident as it seems in post 93 it is only a matter of time before this is revisited at the crown court and a proper verdict is delivered. Like the post nehpets !

 

Absolutely Ridiculous DVLA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have emailed DVLA asking them to define exactly what they consider is a proper way to deliver documents, ie by Royal Mail, hand delivered to Swansea or a local office and given receipt or diectly by hand to the Secretary of State, wonder if they will reply?

 

I am sure that a superior court would throw this out and then this would sort DVLA out, but its going to cost unless a Silk would do it Pro-Bono

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a quite indepth conversation with the prosecuter on the telephone yesterday - they called me to ask where I had obtained my letter that I had sent them :-) but I was not willing to indulge. They asked my reasons for not pleading guility and I stated that as I had posted the V5 to the address stated on the back of the V5 my job was done. The prosecuter asked why I had not called the telephone number on the back of the V5 to confirm if they had received it - I advised that this was not possible as the V5 was posted and that would have meant travelling to DVLA Swansea to obtain the V5 to a vehicle that does not belong to me to obtain the phone number.

 

They agian told me to either provide them with evidence of "Delivery" or pay the fine - I opted to go to court and provide evidence there BUT have requested the DVLA to provide evidence to the court that one of the employees have not tampered with the V5 and disposed of it and also to prove that Royal mail have not lost it.

 

The prosecuter told me that this was not possible and again I can avoid court by paying the simple little fine!! But by me paying the fine would mean that I am guilty of what ever crime they think I have commited. The prosecuter have asked me to call them back on Monday an make arrangements to see them before the court date...

Link to post
Share on other sites

well if we send via Royal Mail to swansea, that is sufficient surely, as their renewal notices come that way = Not Recorded Delivery. Daughter get letter etc as she part exchanged her car and she says she sent off paper to them, they keep sending letters saying they know nothing? has the garage not notified them as well as a few months have gone and possibly the car exchanged is re-registered to new owner, and the garage notified them I wonder, this country is klike a dictatorship or is now.??? comments anyone????

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...