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    • Email and call your local councillor, their details should be on Google.  Just explain everything to them and they will have the bailiffs off your back in short order.   Do it now, and this could be resolved by tomorrow.  
    • Your latest ramblings make no sense in relation to the issue (which is whether a person hearing an SD can question the maker as to its truthfulness and reject the declaration if they are not satisfied as such).     It's not within 21 days of the hearing it's within 21 days of learning of the conviction of which they were unaware. I don't know what it is you are reading or are referring to but there is no "debtor" involved in an SD that is made to have a conviction set aside. When an SD is heard in court the only officers involved are the court's Legal Advisor and the Magistrates themselves.   I’ve just been looking back at the original post which started all this off to ensure I wasn’t going mad. I’m pleased to say I don’t think I am. Instead I am of the opinion that you did not properly grasp what originally happened to the OP and compounded that by providing incorrect, misleading and confusing advice whilst plucking bits of irrelevant legislation from thin air randomly when you commented. Here’s a few of your quotes and my comments for you to consider.     The OP said no such thing. She said she had moved three years earlier. For some reason unknown, her change of address was not recorded by the DVLA. She said she was happy to accept the speeding allegation. This indicated she was driving (a fact she confirmed absolutely soon afterwards). Nowhere did she ever say she was not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time.         So, from advice to plead Not Guilty to advice to plead Guilty inside two hours, with no new or additional information provided. Still you mention somebody else being the driver.         What is an “out of time statement” and where and when was one ever mentioned?     Then from the OP:       Your response:       The cause of any confusion was your comments. She said from the outset that she did not live at her old address when the offence was committed (in fact she went to some lengths to explain that was why she did not receive the court papers). Nowhere did she suggest she was not the driver nor that she could not or would not disclose who was.     No it isn’t. A Statutory Declaration voids the original conviction as if it never happened. Section 142 of the Magistrates’ Court Act is not involved with the resurrection of proceedings following an SD. That Section grants the Magistrates powers to re-open cases to rectify mistakes, etc. There has been no mistake here, the Magistrates will not be called upon to re-open the case and could not prevent it being revisited even if they wanted to.   Then we set off into the intricacies of the Statutory Declaration process which is covered above.   I’m not surprised the OP in this particular case became confused. Her matter is straightforward enough (for those who know the law and the process). In summary: She moved; She thought the DVLA had her vehicle registered at her new address but they hadn’t; Her vehicle (with her driving) was detected speeding; She (unsurprisingly) did not receive the notification of that offence or the request for driver’s details; She obviously didn’t reply to that request, she was prosecuted for it, convicted in her absence and without her knowledge.   Happens every day and simple to deal with.   Unfortunately, not when you became involved it isn't. Firstly you grasped the wrong end of the stick by assuming she was not the owner and/or the driver. You advised her to plead Not Guilty on that basis. Then, when you had grasped some idea of what had really happened you suggested she plead guilty to the S172 offence purely on the basis she had moved and the speeding information was sent to her old address. Very poor advice. Then you scared her witless by incorrectly suggesting there was a chance her SD would be rejected if it was thought her declaration may be untruthful. There also followed discussions about the six month time limit for prosecutions and the 21 day limit for SDs to be accepted unconditionally (both totally irrelevant).   I don’t suppose you will accept any of these criticisms but whether you do or not you clearly caused the OP considerable confusion and probably distress. My comments are not based on something I've heard on the net or on barroom (sic) knowledge. They are based on my knowledge of the law and of Magistrates' Court procedures.  It's obvious you will pay no heed to me so when I see any such clearly misleading information provided to an OP by you in this section in future I will simply report it to the site's administrators.
    • Just ignore unless you receive a PAP letter.    Chances are you will run out the clock and it will become SB'd.    
    • Sure I read somewhere that PayPal MADE 2.2 billion dollars in 2018, so I guess losing out on say 10 million a year in negative balance is more cost effective than paying tax in the UK?  Dont get me wrong I’m by no means saying “sod it” they can afford it, I’m just hoping they don’t take me to the cleaners and at least give me time. 
    • I apologise profusely for my actions in this case. I pride myself on my integrity and honesty and I feel shameful for my moment of very poor judgement. As the sole income earner for the family (my wife is on maternity leave), a criminal record would be devastating for us as my employment relies upon a clean criminal record.   On the 22nd I was travelling to London Bridge and needed to connect at Three Bridges. When purchasing my ticket in the morning I only bought a ticket to Three Bridges by mistake.   I made a bad error and I am just so sorry for my actions and the inconvenience caused to all involved.   I am happy to make immediate payment of the unpaid fare and any incurred costs that my mistake have caused.   I would appreciate your consideration and I sincerely hope that you can show some leniency as an criminal conviction would impact my employment and ultimately being able to provide for my family.   Regards   I cant offer to get a monthly ir annual as I only travel a handful of times per year.
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Number6

Failure to notify. Another case!

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I just want to check the current status.

 

Usual story - sent notification of disposal of vehicle to DVLA

Received Mags Court summons

Wrote to "The Prosecutor" stating I intend to plead not guilty and defend the case, seek to recover costs, etc.

Received reply from "The Prosecutor" saying it's my fault, they will proceed to prosecute the case but offer me "the opportunity" to have the case withdrawn if I pay them £55!

 

I'm not paying them anything! I will plead not guilty and attend the hearing.

 

In my defence I intend to quote the Interpretation Act and section 22 of The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.

 

Is there anything else I should be preparing or doing?

 

Thanks for your help.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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If the prosecutor starts on about their 'confirmation letter', ask what legislation requires them to send one, or you to do anything if you don't receive one.

 

Another ploy of theirs is to say that you did not 'deliver the document to the secretary of state as required by the regulations' ask how do you do that other than posting the document to DVLA at Swansea.

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Thanks Raykay. Will do.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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I attended court on Thursday. Was accosted by the DVLA prosecutor who asked me a couple of questions. I just gave him a blank stare.

 

Anyway, I entered my not guilty plea and the trial is set for 24th May.

 

Any tips, apart from the obvious, about how to approach setting out my defence?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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The 'claims' by the prosecutor often are "you are guilty because":

 

"You didn't chase up the confirmation letter" - as above, you don't have to.

 

"You cannot prove it was delivered" - you don't have to - s.7 Interpretation Act 1978.

 

"The Interpretation Act doesn't apply in this case" - it does - s. 7 Interpretation Act 1978 covers it quite well:

'Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post', especially or any other expression is used . They give a postal address so they require it to be sent by post.

 

"You did not deliver the document to the Secretary of State as requirede by the regulations" - on the V5C, the instructions on page 2 and on the back of parts 9 & 10 are that you must return the relevant document to DVLA at Swansea when you notify any changes. The DVLA is an Executive Agency of the Department for Transport, so by sending a document to DVLA you have, in effect, delivered it as required.

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Thanks for the advice Raykay.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Hello again

 

I'm up before the bench on Thursday afternoon (if anyone wants to come and watch, you're welcome) and, having never been before the mags before I wonder if anyone can advise me of the procedure and what I should do?

 

I am preparing a small bundle of documents to take with me as requested by the Clerk at my plea hearing - should I prepare just two sets, i.e. one for me and one for the bench as a whole, or should I provide a set for each of the three magistrates and the prosecutor?

 

What will happen at the court. I know I have to present myself a half hour or so before the allotted time, but what will happen then? Will I hand my bundle over to the Clerk? Do I take it into court with me?

 

When I'm called in for trial, any pointers as to how things will proceed?

 

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

Many thanks.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Oh, one more thing - What would it be reasonable to ask for in recompense for my costs when I win?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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i will bet my house you will get a phone call from the DVLA prosecutor tomorow

 

he will ask about your defence then he will withdraw the summons

 

that what happened with me after i refused to be bullied by them

 

i take it this is a magistrates court

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Yes, Magistrates.

 

OK, we'll see :-)

 

What had you prepared for the hearing though? Just in case it all goes through to hearing.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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You may find that the prosecutor will speak to you before you actually go into court and and again offer to drop the case if you make a settlement payment. If you refuse that, they may ask you what your defence is and try to rufute it, if they realise that you know what you are talking about and are prepared to go into court, they often drop the prosecution - they are well aware of the ramifications if the bench are made aware of validity of the defences to their claims, and don't want anyone letting the cat out of the bag, which could result in a string of not guilty verdicts and an end to their money making racket for rest of the day!!!

 

 

 

Just remember:

There is no legal requirement to do anything about their acknowledgement letter.

You don't have to prove the document was received - they have to prove you didn't send it.

You delivered the document to the Secretary of State by sending to to DVLA at Swansea.

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Thanks Raykay.

 

I'd still like to prepare my documentation correctly though, just in case it's needed. I could do with some advice how I should do this. Anyone?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Thanks Raykay.

 

I'd still like to prepare my documentation correctly though, just in case it's needed. I could do with some advice how I should do this. Anyone?

 

I haven't had a hearing like this, but when I took a travel company to court I prepared three of everything. One for me, one for the opposition and one for the court. I won... L

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That's my thinking too. But there are three Magistrates so I'm wondering if I should prepare a copy for each Magistrate?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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That's my thinking too. But there are three Magistrates so I'm wondering if I should prepare a copy for each Magistrate?

 

Yes if you want to... But they can share if need be. In criminal cases mags quite often share case notes. Up to you...and your budget/time.

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Just back from Court 5.

 

I lost!

 

The magistrates had sympathy with me but decided that in the strict interpretation of the law I did not "deliver" the document.

 

I asked for, and was granted leave to appeal.

 

What does the panel suggest I do next? Any thoughts?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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what do you mean in the strict interpretation of the law I did not "deliver" the document.

what reason did the magistrate give for the interpretations act not being applicable

 

def appeal

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All that the magistrate said was that "while they have sympathy for my case they have to apply the law". He went on to say that the strict interpretation of the word "deliver" means to "hand over to another party". He said nothing else.

 

Even the DVLA guy agreed with me that I posted it, I have a witness to the fact but apparently merely posting it is not good enough!

 

I'm not happy as you can imagine. I have 21 days to consider appealing. Problem with appealing is that I would have to get a solicitor or barrister to represent me and I simply can't afford that along with the risk of costs being awarded against me if I still go on to lose.

 

Another question is - do I appeal the conviction or do I go to the Divisional Court to appeal on a point of law?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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I'm thinking of getting local / national media involved. Good idea or maybe counter productive if I intend to appeal?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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the appeal will be to the crown court

 

the magistrate has def got it wrong

 

the interpretations act is statute legislation and cannot be rebuked

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I know an appeal against conviction will be at the Crown Court, but my question is should I appeal the conviction? - in which case it will effectively be a retrial, or do I appeal it to the divisional court on a point of law?

 

Appeals to the High Court

 

Where you consider that either the Magistrates' Court or Youth Court, or the Crown Court when hearing your appeal, have made an error of law, acted in excess of their jurisdiction or failed to exercise their jurisdiction in deciding your case, you can appeal on a point of law to the Divisional Court of the High Court. This is done by way of asking the lower court to 'state a case' for the Divisional Court's consideration.

 

The latter course would not involve a retrial but OTOH I won't be able to re-present my evidence.


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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OK, that's an interesting thread :-)

 

Well Mr John Dyson (DVLA Prosecutor), I hope you are reading this thread and I look forward to meeting you in the Crown Court for the appeal hearing as soon as possible!


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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As with the Paul Kennedy case I am happy to 'chip in' something towards any unrecovered Appeal Costs.

 

In apealing the conviction it will be at a higher Court than today's, before a professional Judge (not lay Magistrates) and, most importantly to everyone, when successful that becomes a legal precedent binding on all equal and lower Courts.

For that last reason alone you will be subjected to much fishing, offers and bartering by DVLA to avoid the Appeal being heard and ruled upon. Read about how they 'withdrew' when Paul went into the Courtroom, thereby avoiding a Judge setting a precedent.

 

Scandalous. This must be brought to an end.

 

"Don't make any deals with them. Don't be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered."

You will have much support from here.

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Thanks for the reply Tony. I have followed the advice in my sig all the way so far and have no intention of giving up now.

 

Reading Paul's thread it doesn't seem like he employed a barrister or solicitor - do you know if this is the case? He was LIP all the way?


I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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