Help with Out Of Time Declaration/bailiffs

[keiko315]

Hi,

 

I have received a hand delivered letter (dated 16/03/12) from a "Jacobs Certified Bailiffs" stating the following:

 

REMOVAL 24 HOURS

 

BALANCE DUE £263.44

 

We have not received a satisfactory response to our previous correspondence.

 

As Bailiff in Charge, I am now instructed to proceed with the removal and sale of your goods. REMOVAL may take place even in your absence.

 

To stop remove action you must contact me MR T. ELLIS IMMEDIATELY on [#Tel No] to arrange PAYMENT IN FULL within 24 hours.

 

PAYMENT IN FULL WITHIN 24 HOURS

 

[signed]

 

 

The letter refers to a PCN issued by Calderdale MBC on 15/07/2012 (Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading).

 

I did received the PCN. However I wrote to the council appealing (informally) and stating that the contravention did not occur and presumed the matter to be dealt with as I have received no other correspondence from them or anyone else until this hand delivered letter.

 

The car was parked on Private Property, belonging to the pub where I was working at the time. The exact spot where my car was parked now has tables and chairs (and the occasional customer) on a daily basis as it does not form part of the road. I have photographic evidence from the day showing the lines (albeit feint) finishing before the cobble stones on which I was parked.

 

Having read through some other posts here, it would appear that I need to file an Out

of Time Declaration.

 

I would like to ask the following:

 

 

1. Do I need to fill in both the PE2 & PE3 parts of the form?
   
2. What wording should be put on there to ensure I have the best case of it being accepted?
   
3. Is there anything else I should be doing re: Bailiff?
   
4. I am in the process of moving house (this Tuesday), do I need to inform anyone such as the Bailiff or Council? The V5 has already been changed to the new address.
   

 

Thank you in advance for your help with this.

 

Martin

[keiko315]

Further to my last post.

 

I have been doing some more reading through the plethora of posts on this subject. Admittedly, I am now somewhat confused as to whether I should be filing a TE7/TE9 instead.

 

I cannot find the original ticket and as such, do not know which leglislation the PCN was issued using.

 

Thanks again for any help.

 

-Martin

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I think it's worth asking this question on the Bailiffs forum here, as you need to stop them if you can. If it's a bailiff question, we normally refer posters to the experts there.

 

My best, HB

[seanamarts]

will move this to the bailiff forum,

 

You could ring the TEC and they will tell you what forms to fill in.

[tomtubby]

Ring TEC on 01604 619450 ( or 08457 045007) and they will send the form to you by email. This should be the TE7 & TE9.

 

You will need to provide the new address where you are moving to. On the TE9 you will need to put something like the following:

 

I was unable to file this application within the given time as I had not known that a warrant had been issued by the council. I received the PCN but sent an appeal to the local authority. I have not received a Notice of Rejection and neither have I received any further notices and assumed that my appeal had been accepted.

 

PS: You need to make SURE that you tick the 2nd box on the TE7.

 

Any problems, please post back......and remember to send you application to TEC by email. That way, the application will be processed today.

[keiko315]

Thank you for your swift replies (and for moving the thread). I really appreciate it as this is a rather stressful situation - further adding to the joys of moving house!

 

I have just spoken to the TEC and they are sending out the TE7 & TE9 forms for me to complete. I will do this (using the above wording) and return it to them today.

[seanamarts]

let us know how you get on

[Jamberson]

Any reason you are aware of as to why the earlier correspondence didn't get to you? If there is (eg a previous house move) it would be a great advantage to give that info on the forms, with dates etc.

[keiko315]

Hi.

 

I emailed the TE7 & TE9 across to the TEC at lunchtime and have received confirmation that they have received it. So I presume it is just a waiting game now to see if they accept it.

 

No. I have not moved house since the PCN was issued. I have had problems with a redirection still in place from my previous address where some has not been getting through to me. However I am not aware of any post not getting to me directly at this address - until now. This is why I cannot understand why this is the first I have heard that the warrant has been issued?!?

[tomtubby]

You should call TEC or the local authority and ask them to confirm the precise address on the warrant of execution.

[Jamberson]

Hi.

 

I emailed the TE7 & TE9 across to the TEC at lunchtime and have received confirmation that they have received it. So I presume it is just a waiting game now to see if they accept it.

 

No. I have not moved house since the PCN was issued. I have had problems with a redirection still in place from my previous address where some has not been getting through to me. However I am not aware of any post not getting to me directly at this address - until now. This is why I cannot understand why this is the first I have heard that the warrant has been issued?!?

 

The council notices will not usually be redirected - they will be returned to sender. Can you call the council and ask what address they sent the NTO to? If it is not the place where you were residing at the time, then you should include that info on your forms and it will strengthen your case considerably.

[keiko315]

Hi everyone. Thank you for all of your comments and advice. I would like to update you with where I am with this now.

 

Using the advice given, as stated above, I filed an Out of Time declaration on 19th March via email to the TEC.

 

I then heard nothing more until on the afternoon of 6th December, when I received a visit from the Bailiff trying to collect for the PCN. I politely informed him that an Our of Time Declaration had been filed back in March and he suggested that I contact the TEC directly and let him know the outcome.

 

When I contacted the TEC, I was informed that the council had subsequently applied again for a Warrant and it had been issued by the TEC. I was advised simply to fill in another Out of Time Declaration and email it back like before - which I promptly did.

 

In today's post, I have received 2 letters. One is from the Council dated 14th December and addressed ot the TEC. This states that they are unwilling to accept my Out Of Time Witness Statement and asking the TEC to place it before a court officer.

 

The second is a Court Order from Northampton County Court dated 19th December stating that:

 

1. Under rule 23.8 of the Civil Procedure Rules the Court Will deal with the application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time without a hearing because the Court does not consider a hearing at Northampton would be appropriate.

2. The application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness statement be REFUSED

 

Note: Any party affected by this order may request a review of the decision by a District Judge 75.5 (2). Such a request must be made within 14 days of the date of service.

 

 

I am now unsure what to do. All I want the council to do is to back down from their erroneously issued PCN. I am not willing to pay for this ticket which shouldn't have been issued in the first place and is now over 18 months old!

Can I appeal as it says? If so, with this notice being served so close to Christmas, does the 14 days take this into consideration or am I left with even less opportunity to do this because of the court being closed all of next week? Please can somone advise.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Martin

[wonkeydonkey]

You can file an 'appeal' to that order ....the 14 days are exactly that, they don't officially do working days or recognise holiday periods (but they tend to give leeway at most courts) so by my estimation the appeal should be filed by 4pm on 2nd January and as long as you get 'evidence' to the date it was sent that is all you need to be concerned about so I would use signed for/recorded delivery and get it sent asap.

 

WD

[keiko315]

@wonkeydonkey: Thank you for your swift reply. I shall make sure I send it using a signed for service.

 

Any ideas on how I should appeal or what line I should take? i.e. what wording I should include when I fill in the form?

 

Thanks

[wonkeydonkey]

I would base the wording on what you have outlined above......it reads ok to me and gives a timeline of the steps you have taken to refute their claim the place in which you were parked can be identified as a restricted parking zone.

 

WD

[tomtubby]

The N244 needs to be completed within 14 days OF SERVICE of the letter from the court. This means that "technically speaking" you have 14 days from 21st December. I am not sure if the date that TEC reopens. I would assume that they open on 27th December.

 

The letter from the council should outline "the reason" why they have asked TEC to reject your permission to file the witness statement late. It would seem to me that there is something wrong with your address on the notices. Did you call TEC to ask for the address on the warrant. Also, had you moved home at any time within the past year to 18 months?

[keiko315]

@tomtubby: Thank you for your reply.

 

Yes. The PCN was issued on 15 July 2011 and I have since moved house - in March 2012.

 

I spoke to the TEC who informed me that the first warrant was issued on 27/01/2012 at my old address.

They stated that the second (current) warrent was issued on 03/09/2012 at my current address.

 

The letter from the council to the TEC (of which I have been copied in), is 2 pages long and includes 3 further pages each with a photograph on. I am happy to provide a copy via email should there be somewhere I can send it?

 

It seems wholly unfair that they seem to have summarily dismissed my application on the basis of what the council have said. That to me appears that they are saying I am lying which I am not. I now have to pay £80 to apply to overturn that said decision. Is there any way of getting that money back?

 

I am utterly frustrated about this whole situation. The fact that the exact place I was parked still today has tables and chairs on it as an extension of the pub I would suggest helps to prove that it is private property and the PCN should not have been issued in the first place. That, coupled with the lack of lines as stated in my original post.

 

I have the N244 in front of me and have been told to get the application back to the TEC directly by 3:30 today, along with the £80 fee. So I am filling that in now with as much infromation as I can. I would be grateful if you could let me know if there is anything in particular I need to include, or if it just has to be a basic application and then I can make my case in front of the Judge.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Martin

A worried CAGer